Concerning power boats, check out CDory. Pretty unique cruiser and fuel efficient. If you can find one in your price range it will be up near the top of it, though. Next best thing to a diesel trawler (and faster when needed).
Is a MacGregor 26M (gasp) my best option?
- Thread starter timover5969
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That's a promo video made by MacGregor to answer criticism of the 26m's seaworthiness. However, it only succeeded in scaring the bajeezus out of most rational sailors.
I've never had an issue with MacGregor boats. They are pretty honest and you get exactly what you see. I DID have a problem with the way Roger marketed them, like he had some secret formula that no one else had that allowed them to make great boats on the cheap. That's dishonest and did buyers (in particular new under-informed buyers) a dis-service.
Like that video. 'Sailing in 50 MPH'. As he quietly mentions in the video, the average wind speed was 36 knots.
Yes sailing in an average 41mph is not 50 mph. Sailing on a beam reach is a lot easier then tacking off a lee shore or upwind towards safe harbor, and the boat is riding diagonally across the swells not trying to go through them as in "Bashing up the California Coast" seeking refuge. So yes it is a promotional video.
I think most sailors would be safely inshore watching from the beach in those "Gale" conditions. A keeled ocean going sail boat would feel safer in those conditions.
But I do not find it detracting from the boat, more the marketer.
I think most sailors would be safely inshore watching from the beach in those "Gale" conditions. A keeled ocean going sail boat would feel safer in those conditions.
But I do not find it detracting from the boat, more the marketer.
The 27 foot Hunter Edge was on the same line as the latest MacGregor power sailor which I introduced as a former dealer now retired at Annapolis for Hunter in 2009. You may want to consider. Not many were sold as I told Hunter they were too late to introduce that boat with a market saturated by MacGregor. You might want to look at that one.
Crazy Dave, I would consider an Edge but I've never seen one in person, or even for sale for that matter. If one did come for sale I suspect it would be out of my price range. It is a better looking boat in my opinion but in this case I'm not buying it for the looks. If I wanted a boat just for its looks I would go out and get something like an old Redwing or Bristol 38.
I had a 26D and I think the design did well for what it was. I'm a big fan of water ballast for a trailerable sailboat. The rigging was light, but so were the forces. I often never bothered with a winch handle. It was really fast for a 26 and great on fuel, but it wasn't a 26M. I do understand the M is a much better sailor than the X boat. Our 26D didn't have the standup headroom.
I think knowing what you know about sailing and your perceived use, why not? Some folks even leave the mast at home. No reason to fill the ballast if you aren't sailing except it made out 26D handle boat wakes much better. I see no reason the 26M wouldn't be the same in that respect. The thing about the M boat, as I understand it is you can empty and refill the ballast while underway as conditions dictate.
Ken
I think knowing what you know about sailing and your perceived use, why not? Some folks even leave the mast at home. No reason to fill the ballast if you aren't sailing except it made out 26D handle boat wakes much better. I see no reason the 26M wouldn't be the same in that respect. The thing about the M boat, as I understand it is you can empty and refill the ballast while underway as conditions dictate.
Ken
That advertisement is pure deception and is surely one of the reasons why that boat has such a horrible reputation. A good windsurfer can ride a sailboard in those conditions but that doesn't make it safe in open water without a chase boat looking out for you. They were filming and riding at the safest possible angle to the waves. They basically showed expert sailors performing a stunt in relative safety. They certainly weren't demonstrating performance for an average sailor who might get caught in adverse conditions without a safety net. When you consider that most purchasers would be totally uninformed and inexperienced, this advertisement was dishonest to the point of criminality.
What makes this boat such a bad idea for you, in my opinion, is that you expect to be a regular sailor (or at least a boater whom expects to make crossings) on Lake Ontario. For sailing on a Great Lake, I would never consider any boat that isn't designed for stability and self-righting. These boats also falsely advertise that they are safe because in the event of capsize it has positive flotation. Try surviving in Lake Ontario, with a boat that is awash in cold water and hypothermia rapidly setting in. I'd expect that in such an event, it might be nearly impossible to stay with the boat unless you were strapped to it. You won't be able to stand on the deck, high and dry, as they show in their advertisement with the boat submerged next to a dock in the calm water of a marina. You could say that I am a hater, but I point to the dishonest advertising that Roger uses as plenty of good reason for dismissing this boat. That said, my disdain is basically limited to the 26X and 26M and does not apply to the earlier models, which seem to have a fairly strong reputation among sailors whom I respect (Sumner prominently among them).
op stated: "Mac 26M can do 18 -20 knots with ease at full power while still getting 3.5mpg, or over 8mpg if I throttle back to 6kts"
IMHO:
I'm not sure this is true.
I think that's in optimal conditions. I think there will be times when 6 knts is all it can do. if that.
IMHO:
I'm not sure this is true.
I think that's in optimal conditions. I think there will be times when 6 knts is all it can do. if that.
LOL- you mean "Roger USED to use" 
Macgregor is gone. Roger closed it down in 2013, transferred to his daughter, now building Tatoo Yachts
Macgregor is gone. Roger closed it down in 2013, transferred to his daughter, now building Tatoo Yachts
Indeed. I was interested in seeing it as well. Problem was nobody was interested in BUYING it. I think letting his kids get into the business he just got out of was parental cruelty.
I have a different idea. I feel the M and X boats are intended for camper sailors usually in lakes or other protected waters who don't normally go out with small craft advisories. These boats are compromise boats. They are equivalent to many small power boats in capability (although not as fast as most) but also allow the operator to put out a sail and go quietly. Serious sailors aren't the target. They do remarkably well for such a lightweight assembly (and lightweight is needed to perform like they do.) I have known someone who several times took their X boat from Puget Sound to Alaska and back. He said they mostly motored. For the 2 stretches of the open ocean, he waited for ideal weather and then shot across while the water was flat. While I wouldn't advocate this kind of trip, I can see how it was doable. There are lots of these boats around and when I've heard of disaster with them it was each time out of stupidity (overloaded with the ballast empty). I just feel folks are giving them a bad rap simply because they don't match up with every possible use of a boat. I have a Hunter 30 and I also don't sail in the ocean. I don't feel my boat was built for blue water. It does work well in Puget Sound, however.
I suspect the video was produced to demonstrate that the Mac won't self-destruct at the first sign of inclement weather.
I have a kayak too, but I don't do whitewater. The one I have isn't intended for that use.
Ken
I suspect the video was produced to demonstrate that the Mac won't self-destruct at the first sign of inclement weather.
I have a kayak too, but I don't do whitewater. The one I have isn't intended for that use.
Ken
Yep, and thousands were sold and are still being used to this day by happy owners. I'll bet a number of 'real sailboat' builders would of liked to of had the success that MacGregor had.
Exactly and he emphasizes that in the video. Hard to see how anyone who watches the whole video can't recognize that. The video clearly wasn't made with the idea of promoting owners to go out in those conditions.
I wonder if some of the remarks made in this thread would be allowed in a thread of say a different boat?
Sumner
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Well, that's fine for camper sailors on lakes and other protected waters. Clearly, that model doesn't fit the original poster whom said that he is looking for a boat to use on trips potentially to cross Lake Ontario. (Lake Ontario is not a "lake" in the sense that you describe above.) I never had any problem with anybody purchasing the boat for the use you describe. My problem is with the false advertising. If you suggest that the video merely says that the boat "won't self-destruct at the first sign …" then why did somebody in this very thread basically promote the boat for being able to handle scary conditions based on the advertisement? I listened to the video as well as watched it and Roger clearly was saying 'go ahead … don't worry about these conditions with this boat, it's made to handle it, can't you see?' Well, I disagree because the boat is so lightly and cheaply built that I think that it WILL self-destruct or capsize and flood the hull as soon as it is called upon to bash into the wind and waves to get out of a bad predicament. Of course, I don't have this experience and I don't anticipate that I will EVER have this experience on a MacGregor so anybody can dismiss my opinion for being 'uninformed'. That's ok, it's my opinion and I'll stick to it no matter how many MacGregor defenders say I'm wrong. I've always been consistent and have basically stated my opinion only when a poster suggests that their primary use for the boat will be on a Great Lake (usually) or open ocean (I can't recall anybody intending to be this foolish). If the poster said "I'm going to trailer my boat to small lakes that are everywhere around me and never use this 26M or 26X on very large bodies of water (like a Great Lake or the Atlantic Ocean)" then I would most likely not respond or I would say something like "sounds like you're going to have fun!"
It really doesn't matter that lots of these boats were sold (funny, how I never actually see them sailed) and it doesn't really matter that some of us actually know somebody whom has done something unusual with this boat. The poster was clearly asking for opinions about how this boat would perform based on his stated use. It's funny how we (collectively) are quick to endorse a foolish notion, when it is clearly foolish for this person, and shun honest commentary and advise just because it is confrontational. I try not to live that way. I'm more in favor of bald honesty. I trust that the original poster is adult enough to hear from all sides and make his own independent decision.
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I’m imaging they would. Maybe the real question is why aren’t they happening? Hmm.
While my opinion (and method) is not the same as Scott’s I can see where he is coming from. The OP (who clearly is a good sailor and knows his way around a boat) asked a direct question. He’s getting direct answers. From both sides of the fence. That’s a fair and honest discussion, and I’m guessing exactly what he wanted to hear. Blowing sunshine up someone’s boat serves no purpose here.
Deconstructing the original post, the question he asked was, "Is boat XXX a reasonable choice to be used in YYY manner."
With the exception of the brief side trip to MacGregor's business practices, most of the posts responded to this question.
If I were to pose the question, "Is a Drascombe Luger a good boat to sail around the world in?" There would no doubt be many who 1) question my sanity and 2) tell me that the boat was entirely unsuitable and I would be a fool to try it. That doesn't say anything about the Drascombe Luger as a boat, only about my intended use of the boat.
Of course there might be one encouraging response along the lines, "Go for it, I almost made it."