Irish Citizenship

[jviss]

Specifically, Irish - U.S. dual citizenship.

If you were born outside of Ireland before 1986 with a grandparent born in Ireland, you can become an Irish citizen by registering your foreign birth. You can then apply for a passport.

Since Ireland is in the EU, this can make travel in Europe easier. There are many other advantages, not the least of which are sentimentality and nostalgia!

I've started this process. Has anyone else here done this?

I have three grandparents born in Ireland. I'm going through this with reference to the only one I knew. I already have an "original" of his Irish birth certificate. I have more documents to gather. Essentially, you have to prove a chain of relationship from yourself to the grandparent. They require your grandparent's and parent's birth, marriage, and death (as applicable) certificates, plus your own birth, marriage, and notarized copy of your passport, and two documents proving current residency like electric and phone bills.

If you've done this, I have a question: did Ireland require apostilled documents, or were certified documents acceptable?

Thanks,

jv

 

[Benny17441]

I would wander about the benefits and responsibilities. Certain things are bound to change as the UK leaves the European Union.

 

[Will Gilmore]

My Irish great great grand father was too far back but then, his great grand parents were Scots brought to Ireland as slave labor by the English, bloody English. Oh yeah, my mother's family was English. Strwike that last part... and thwow it to the gwound.
can you apply for some sort of reparation since the Irish were a persecuted class in America? Maybe get into college for free?
Seriously, that sounds pretty cool

- Will ("full of Barney", Dragonfly)

 

[Gunni]

Certain things are bound to change as the UK leaves the European Union.

Ireland is an independent EU nation. They didn't screw up like the English and withdraw from EU. Now Northern Ireland is British and tied to the English EU mistake, will be interesting to see what they and the Scots do next. We might finally get an independent Scotland by damned!

 

[Calif. Ted]

We might finally get an independent Scotland by damned!

I think that's what my ancestors were trying to do, before quickly taking ship to the wilderness here in the 1700's.

 

[Kermit]

I’ll try to delete this before Robo Cop bans me. Oh heck. Maybe a few days in the pokey would do me some good!

 

[Will Gilmore]

I think that's what my ancestors were trying to do, before quickly taking ship to the wilderness here in the 1700's.

I think mine were trying to desert from being pressed into service in the English Army. Something about the Sinn Fein rebellion. Although, I'm pretty sure my great great grandfather was here before 1900.
Kermit obviously knows what I mean about being a persecuted class. Apply for dual citizenship then get asylum here in the US.
- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Kermit]

Kermit obviously knows what I mean about being a persecuted class. Apply for dual citizenship then get asylum here in the US.
- Will (Dragonfly)

You’re giving me waaaaay too much credit. I just have a way of remembering useless stuff. Like movie lines. I wish I could remember important stuff. You know, things my wife wants me to remember.

 

[Will Gilmore]

I wish I could remember important stuff. You know, things my wife wants me to remember.

LOL. It was my wife's birthday yesterday. I got lucky and found a present, I bought her months ago, just after her comment that it was her birthday, that morning. I looked like I had the whole thing planned from the beginning
My father found out there was a big Scottish clan of Gilmores and decided he had been mistaken all those years and he was really Scottish. He met an Irishman when he was 40 and was telling the gentleman he'd been an Irishman for 35 years. The Irishman asked him, "do you still feel the pain of it? "
- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[jviss]

O.K., guys, now, back to our regularly scheduled programming. I'm going to explain what I've figured out so far, so if someone stumbles upon this, it may help them out.

First, it's difficult to get a question answered by citizenship folk in Ireland. I've sent two emails, using their online email form, and never even received an acknowledgement that I had sent something. I tried calling, during their very short phone answering hours, and was never able to get through.

That said, they are efficient in other ways, and their website works pretty well. I ordered the birth certificate of my grandfather online, and received it two weeks later; €20 each copy, plus €2 shipping (I ordered copies for my brothers, too).

The Irish website lists the documents you must supply to "register your foreign birth," and it's basically a way of demonstrating an unbroken chain of descendancy from your Irish-born grandparent to you. So, you need to identify yourself, and then supply your grandparent's birth, marriage, and death certificates (or passport, if they are alive), and parent's same. Note that it's only one grandparent and one parent you need to document. For yourself, you need supply a notarized copy of your passport, your own birth and marriage certificates (if married), a couple of utility bills to prove residence, and a couple of signed, witnessed photos. You must also supply photocopies of all the docs that will be returned to you.

The birth, marriage, and death certificates must be certified, long-form, civil documents; church and hospital issued certificates are unsatisfactory. Long-form certificates have more information about parents, birth dates, and so on. This information is necessary to prove descendancy.

Now, here's the thing. Both Ireland and the United States are parties to the Hague Convention of 5 October 1961 Abolishing the Requirement of Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents (“Apostille Convention”). Apostille is a French word that means something like certify, authenticate, complete, or, in English, endorsement. It's like a certification that the certified document is authentic. In the US, this is done by the individual states. The Federal government can't apostille state documents. Birth, marriage, and death certificates are state documents.

Getting an apostille is an additional step, through a different agency than that which provides the certificate. A letter of exemplification must accompany a certificate that is to be apostilled, and this letter can't be provided except for when the certificate is created. So, even if you have an original, long form certificate, you have to get a new one with a letter of exemplification to have it apostilled.

A letter of exemplification is "is an official attested copy or transcript of a public instrument, made under the seal and original pen-in-hand signature of a court or public functionary and in the name of the sovereign, e.g., "The People of the State of New York"."

The Irish website never says that the document must be apostilled. It only says "certified" original. I have read things online where people have said the apostille is not required, and others have said it is. There is no doubt that if you submit apostilled certificates, they will be accepted. Otherwise, I don't know.

While the City of NY issues the certificates filed there, like my birth and marriage, the State of NY apostilles them.

So, I think I'm just going to go ahead and get apostilled certificates. It adds about $10 plus postage (unless you walk them in), and takes a little more time.

I am about five documents short of filing. Stay tuned.

Éirinn go Bráċ.

jv

 

[justsomeguy]

I am about five documents short of filing.

Someday, this nonsense of "citizenship" will be over.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Someday, this nonsense of "citizenship" will be over.

Total homogenization.
- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[jviss]

Someday, this nonsense of "citizenship" will be over.

And we will all live under the same, one-world government. So, who's government would you like? China? Germany? India?

 

[justsomeguy]

So, who's government would you like? China? Germany? India?

You're missing the point. It won't matter which one. It'll be Earth's gov't.

 

[jviss]

You're missing the point. It won't matter which one. It'll be Earth's gov't.

You're missing the point. it will be one govt., and maybe (likely?) one you won't like. Like communist China's

 

[justsomeguy]

maybe (likely?) one you won't like.

That's a given.

 

[Calif. Ted]

If the world was equalized none of us could afford a boat for "recreation".

 

[Will Gilmore]

That's a given.

If the world was equalized none of us could afford a boat for "recreation".

I think those two statements show incredible insight.
I'd be an anarchist of I thought that could actually work. Every system has its flaws. Still, it's nice to dream.
- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Gunni]

If the world was equalized none of us could afford a boat for "recreation".

The old Zero-Sum theory. Anything someone else gets means I get less. Nihilistic.
Fatty Goodlander has been sailing around the world for decades in a boat that cost less than my mainsail... proving that theory kaput.