Inverter
- Thread starter SayGudday
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i buy mine elsewhere as wm is waaay overpriced on these. i go to home depot and to auto zone and to outlet stores and online places.. good luck.
my invertors i buy from auto zone work fine, and are small enough to not use too much electricity to run themselves.
IFF xantrex or some company would make a sturdy charger/invertor, i might purchase one of those but not from west marine, the champs of 400 percent markup.
my invertors i buy from auto zone work fine, and are small enough to not use too much electricity to run themselves.
IFF xantrex or some company would make a sturdy charger/invertor, i might purchase one of those but not from west marine, the champs of 400 percent markup.
more info
What kind did you have and what do you want to run off the inverter,do need a charger inverter or just an inverter.
Nick
What kind did you have and what do you want to run off the inverter,do need a charger inverter or just an inverter.
Nick
@ Zeehag: Ahoy! I didn't know you were on this forum. Just sent you a friend request. My last inverter was from Autozone but it came with no warranty and died in just over a year so I shied away from that option. I only need a fairly minimal inverter and all the ones I've found at Home Depot and Lowes are over-sized (and thus overpriced) for me needs.
@ Delezynski: I seriously considered harbor freight and, to be honest, the only reason I considered west marine is because I could walk it into a store if I had issues with it. Lots of WM stores about. Got any thoughts on that consideration?
@ seadaddler. My set up is pretty Spartan. Solar panels to battery to inverter to my only two electronic devices i.e. a laptop and hand held radio. Previous inverter was an Autozone 1000W modified sine wave but that didn't last long. Not it's fault by the way, it got completely drenched in sea water early in it's life.
Thanks for the input, everyone.
@ Delezynski: I seriously considered harbor freight and, to be honest, the only reason I considered west marine is because I could walk it into a store if I had issues with it. Lots of WM stores about. Got any thoughts on that consideration?
@ seadaddler. My set up is pretty Spartan. Solar panels to battery to inverter to my only two electronic devices i.e. a laptop and hand held radio. Previous inverter was an Autozone 1000W modified sine wave but that didn't last long. Not it's fault by the way, it got completely drenched in sea water early in it's life.
Thanks for the input, everyone.
My experience in reading this board is "Don't buy Harbor Freight electric anythings." Based on reading here, I wouldn't. Try Radio Shack. 
Really.
BTW - zeehag is EVERYWHERE. - that counts, that is
Really.BTW - zeehag is EVERYWHERE. - that counts, that is
WM/ insurance
I have gotten WM electronics and insurance with pretty good results with a VHF I returned for new one.
Nick
I have gotten WM electronics and insurance with pretty good results with a VHF I returned for new one.
Nick
When we departed in 04, I took 2 small 75 W cig plug in types, and 2 each 400 W types. All from Costco. I checked the output voltage when we got them with a small cheep meter. All were at 120 VAC. After 5 years, one of the small ones was down to 95 VAC the other at about 100 so I tossed them both. One of the 400 went belly up along the way and got tossed and the other is now reading about 100 VAC. So, they have a life span.
We are now planning on doing half time cruising (6 months per year) and not as far afield, so I opted for a couple of small ones from Harbor F. I have a store close to me here. I have gotten many tools from them with no problems. BUT, I do consider them disposable.
I normally look at it that I will pay about 5 to 10% more for an item in a store I can walk into, rather than on-line stuff. Sort of a type of insurance. If I get it at a store I have a guy who I can harass if anything goes wrong. West does have a good return policy, or did some time back. The nearest store to me now is about an hour away.
For your use, I think a 1000 W is a lot of overkill. What size computer are you running? We used the 400 for a couple of laptops, a small food processor, and a small sewing machine. Just not all at one time.
Good luck on what ever you decide on.
Greg
We are now planning on doing half time cruising (6 months per year) and not as far afield, so I opted for a couple of small ones from Harbor F. I have a store close to me here. I have gotten many tools from them with no problems. BUT, I do consider them disposable.
I normally look at it that I will pay about 5 to 10% more for an item in a store I can walk into, rather than on-line stuff. Sort of a type of insurance. If I get it at a store I have a guy who I can harass if anything goes wrong. West does have a good return policy, or did some time back. The nearest store to me now is about an hour away.
For your use, I think a 1000 W is a lot of overkill. What size computer are you running? We used the 400 for a couple of laptops, a small food processor, and a small sewing machine. Just not all at one time.
Good luck on what ever you decide on.
Greg
@Delezynski: totally agree that 1000W is overkill but all of the inverters under that size (that I've seen) really look rinky-dink like they will fall apart during installation. Also I've not found a lot under 100W. Didn't see any at Autozone, Home Depot, Lowes, WM, etc. Didn't think to look at Costco, though. Might try that this weekend. Thanks for the tip.
You might also try....
SayGudday,
You might also check out Amazon.com......
A 100 Watt unit at;
http://www.amazon.com/Whistler-PI-100W-Watt-Power-Inverter/dp/B000JPZ6NW/ref=sr_1_104?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1356702955&sr=1-104&keywords=inverter
Or a 300 Watt $25 unit at;
http://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-inverter-motolora-blackberry-3011BU-Y-3/dp/B004MDXS0U/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_10
and it's got a good review from over 100 people.
Just an idea.
By the way, I never did "mount" ours. Just kept them in a dry box until needed. We kept one of the 400 units in the same dry box as the sewing machine. It fit nicely.
Greg
SayGudday,
You might also check out Amazon.com......
A 100 Watt unit at;
http://www.amazon.com/Whistler-PI-100W-Watt-Power-Inverter/dp/B000JPZ6NW/ref=sr_1_104?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1356702955&sr=1-104&keywords=inverter
Or a 300 Watt $25 unit at;
http://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-inverter-motolora-blackberry-3011BU-Y-3/dp/B004MDXS0U/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_10
and it's got a good review from over 100 people.
Just an idea.
By the way, I never did "mount" ours. Just kept them in a dry box until needed. We kept one of the 400 units in the same dry box as the sewing machine. It fit nicely.
Greg
One of the better deals going is actually a Xantrex product. I am not a huge fan of Xantrex but for $198.00 you can get a 600W Pure Sine wave inverter and they've proven to be fairly reliable..
The nice thing about prure sine is that you won't cook your batteries in your phone, power tools or other devices. Many "cheap" MSW (modified sine wave) inverters wreak havoc with battery charging. They are fine on pure resistive loads like a heat gun but can be a very, very poor choice for delicate electronics.
I personally destroyed three very expensive DeWalt batteries plus about four very expensive Nikon DSLR batteries using an MSW inverter. Some MSW inverters are MUCH better than others and devices can do okay but these are also EXPENSIVE units not bottom of the barrel "cheapies". The elcheapo inverters are the absolute dirtiest MSW and cause the most issues. You really want to buy these by "quality" of the AC output not just by price and wattage especially if using them to charge or power sensitive devices.
Keep in mind the "total cost" of ownership. My own inverter mishap (a Xantrex MSW unit) cost me six - seven times the cost of the inverter in ruined batteries!
It's not just me I have numerous customers who've also destroyed cordless tool batteries, camera batteries and other devices that tend to not work will with poor MSW inverters. Most never realize why their camera, cell or cordless tool batts died so early but it is usually because the wave form tricks the charger into never shutting off. My DeWalt charger that normally shuts off and the batts are full in about 20 minutes was still applying a full charge SIX HOURS later....... Worked fine on clean AC power but NOT on MSW.....
Phil here at SBO stocks the ProWattSW inverters. For $198.00 for a pure sine inverter it is about the best deal out there.....
Beyond all that my advice would be no inverter and keep it all DC. Inverters are a horribly inefficient way to charge a HH VHF or Laptop computer. Both devices can be charged direct 12V with the right adapters.
A 12V computer "car charger" is well under $60.00 these days and a 12V charger cord for a VHF is about $12.00. Most manufacturers of HH VHF's offer a 12V charging cord with 12V socket. Ours is hardwired into the 12V system so every time we place it in its holder the batteries are being charged.
Going from DC to AC back to DC can cost you as much as 40% in efficiency losses.... Staying DC saves on these losses and is far more efficient.... When relying on solar maximum efficiency is what you really want...
The nice thing about prure sine is that you won't cook your batteries in your phone, power tools or other devices. Many "cheap" MSW (modified sine wave) inverters wreak havoc with battery charging. They are fine on pure resistive loads like a heat gun but can be a very, very poor choice for delicate electronics.
I personally destroyed three very expensive DeWalt batteries plus about four very expensive Nikon DSLR batteries using an MSW inverter. Some MSW inverters are MUCH better than others and devices can do okay but these are also EXPENSIVE units not bottom of the barrel "cheapies". The elcheapo inverters are the absolute dirtiest MSW and cause the most issues. You really want to buy these by "quality" of the AC output not just by price and wattage especially if using them to charge or power sensitive devices.
Keep in mind the "total cost" of ownership. My own inverter mishap (a Xantrex MSW unit) cost me six - seven times the cost of the inverter in ruined batteries!
It's not just me I have numerous customers who've also destroyed cordless tool batteries, camera batteries and other devices that tend to not work will with poor MSW inverters. Most never realize why their camera, cell or cordless tool batts died so early but it is usually because the wave form tricks the charger into never shutting off. My DeWalt charger that normally shuts off and the batts are full in about 20 minutes was still applying a full charge SIX HOURS later....... Worked fine on clean AC power but NOT on MSW.....
Phil here at SBO stocks the ProWattSW inverters. For $198.00 for a pure sine inverter it is about the best deal out there.....
Beyond all that my advice would be no inverter and keep it all DC. Inverters are a horribly inefficient way to charge a HH VHF or Laptop computer. Both devices can be charged direct 12V with the right adapters.
A 12V computer "car charger" is well under $60.00 these days and a 12V charger cord for a VHF is about $12.00. Most manufacturers of HH VHF's offer a 12V charging cord with 12V socket. Ours is hardwired into the 12V system so every time we place it in its holder the batteries are being charged.
Going from DC to AC back to DC can cost you as much as 40% in efficiency losses.... Staying DC saves on these losses and is far more efficient.... When relying on solar maximum efficiency is what you really want...
my favorite and bestest evah invertor is a 120 wtt plug in that i found somewhere easy to locate--like auto zone or wallys(mart) -- is many yearts old and still working--noisy but functions well with smaller netbooks and notebooks and such--recharging radios and telephones etc....perfect item and i have some spares for it that just do not measure up...
the smaller invertors at walmart are in the electronic dept--i think i foun dmin ein car stuff there....is well worth the political bs to go get one..LOl just dont dress walmart fashion to go there...or do , so we can laugh ....
and yup, i typo everywhere--and guddday--i accepted ye..
the smaller invertors at walmart are in the electronic dept--i think i foun dmin ein car stuff there....is well worth the political bs to go get one..LOl just dont dress walmart fashion to go there...or do , so we can laugh ....
and yup, i typo everywhere--and guddday--i accepted ye..
If that is all you are running then a 180 watt Wagan 2200 pure sine wave might work for you. We use one....
...to recharge batteries and I'll use it at times for my CPAP machine at night if it is being finicky and not running on the 12 volt plug. It would also power your computer. It has worked perfectly so far for us and wasn't that expensive at less than $90....
http://invertersupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=244&cPath=11
...we bought ours on Amazon....
http://www.amazon.com/Wagan-EL2200-...J3VI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1312812210&sr=8-2
Our main ship's computer runs on 12 volts but for Ruth's laptop we use a...
... Lind DC to DC converter....
http://www.lindelectronics.com/cgi-bin/store/shop.cgi/!ORDERID!/x/x/Adapter2-72.html/
... It is a little more effecient vs. going through the inverter to the computer brick. There are cheaper ones, but the Lind is very high quality and will work over a wide 12 volt range.
Also don't forget that WM will price match so if you find the same item from say Defender they will match prices. I'm not real sure of this, maybe Stu or MS can comment, but if you get say a 1000 watt inverter and then run it with a small load I don't think that is as efficient as getting an inverter that is closer to the true load,
Sum
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Make sure you are checking voltage with a true rms voltmeter.......particularly on mod sine wave inverters. A non rms voltmeter will show between 95 and 100 vac on a msw inverter. Ditto with battery chargers being damaged on msw........unless you are running high load devices.....go with a pure sine wave........inductors in the power supplies tend to saturate with msw.....not a good thing.
Listen to Main Sail on this one. You don't stop paying for cheap inverters until you throw them away...
I installed the Xantrex ProWatt SW 600 this spring with the remote switch and haven't had one issue with it.
http://sailingit.com/blog/boat-projects/inverter-installation
I installed the Xantrex ProWatt SW 600 this spring with the remote switch and haven't had one issue with it.
http://sailingit.com/blog/boat-projects/inverter-installation
@Delezynski: you know what, that's not a bad idea. It would solve a few problems for me by not having it permanently mounted. Ya gotta love forums for exchanging ideas!
@splax Yeah that's a good idea too. I went to a couple of camping places but never saw any inverters. To be honest though, I was looking for bear mace and not inverters.
@Maine Sail Excellent input! Do you think I could find a way to run a shopvac off DC? It's not a critical item but it's nice to use the hoover instead of a dust pan and brush when you do a thorough cleaning.
@zeehag: I try to avoid walmart because I have to dress up to go there (that comes from a mvoie but I can't remember which one).
@ Sumner: thanks for the input and the links. All the feedback is making my life a lot easier and I appreciate it.
@flynfol: Thanks for the feedback, mate!
@FourPoints: Thanks for the tip!
@splax Yeah that's a good idea too. I went to a couple of camping places but never saw any inverters. To be honest though, I was looking for bear mace and not inverters.
@Maine Sail Excellent input! Do you think I could find a way to run a shopvac off DC? It's not a critical item but it's nice to use the hoover instead of a dust pan and brush when you do a thorough cleaning.
@zeehag: I try to avoid walmart because I have to dress up to go there (that comes from a mvoie but I can't remember which one).
@ Sumner: thanks for the input and the links. All the feedback is making my life a lot easier and I appreciate it.
@flynfol: Thanks for the feedback, mate!
@FourPoints: Thanks for the tip!
I found that the smaller brushed motors(ie shop vacs, drills etc) will start on a cheaper 1000 watt msw inverter. Skill saw needs more watts. Just do your watt conversion pyramid to determine dc amp draw and wire accordingly( use a wire run/amp chart )My shop vac draws about 100 amps dc when it starts. Cap start induction motors will really draw power. My tablesaw will draw about 400 amps on a 12 vdc inverter on start up and settle in about 125 amps when running. Search Maine sails posts for some great electrical info.........I don't know how he finds time, but bless him for his generous sharing of knowledgable info.
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