Is it the incorrect use of "too", or the annoying phrase "to be perfectly honest" which implies that the person might be lying otherwise.
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- Thread starter Brian D
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That's a natural opinion to hold, but an uninformed one.
How and why can we hold teachers responsible, when teachers cannot hold students responsible? Teachers cannot make their students learn. You can't make them show up for class, you can't make them turn off their cell phones, you can't make them study, or do assignments, or even take a test. You can't make them speak English. Hell, man, you can't even make them stop having sex in the restrooms.
No, I am not making that last one up.
You can't fail students in today's world, you must to find a way to give them a passing grade. And I do mean give them. If a student repeatedly fails to turn in an assignment, for example, you still cannot give them the zero they earned. Why? That might hurt their feelings! You have to give them a 50% at minimum.
And where does parental responsibility enter the picture?
I too am the husband of a (soon to be former) career teacher who works harder and longer than anyone I have ever known in my life. But after 28 years in the classroom, my wife has just now officially declined to renew her contract for the coming year. Three more of the best teachers at her school are quitting this year as well.
Why in God's name would they stay?
Leaving politics out of it (which leaves a vast, gaping void in the discussion) ... our schools are broken because our society is broken. Any attempt to fix schools which does not first address today's societal attitudes is doomed to failure. In other words ... things are only going to get a lot worse. Quickly.
Gene I couldn't agree with your statement more. You have hit the nail square on the head. Schools and teachers have not failed our children SOCIETY has.
And then there's the relentless "you know" that some folks don't hear themselves repeating...you know?
First post in a long time that made me wish I could hand out 10,000 likes for the same post.
The unfortunate side-effect of teaching kids to pass the mandated tests is that we have been failing to teach them to think critically. Though perhaps we have been failing to do that because as a society in general we are no longer thinking critically ourselves.
As Malcolm Forbes said: "The purpose of an education is to replace an empty mind with an open one."
To be open, one must be able to examine concepts critically.
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I whole heartedly agree with you, Gene! However.... that same system that says to pass the students has led us to a place here in Louisiana (and probably more states) where the teachers (some of whom have been passed along) don't know or refuse to use grammatically correct English, and don't know math.. Society and political correctness is at the root, sure, but now we have a self sustaining mess..
Repercussions. There are no repercussions for reprehensible or illegal acts. If there were a price to pay for stupidity or criminal acts or just being a politician, then we could start to have a discussion on making our country a better, more responsible place to live. Right now the people holding the joint together are a dying breed.
Nahhhh.
My father didn't like my long hair. Called me a "sissy". Later, after I got a college football scholarship, that changed to "baby bear" as jest, since I could run 100 yds in 11.4 seconds and bench press 250 lbs as reps.
Each generation has a "calling card" that soon wears off. Usually after they see Fed Income tax taken from their first pay check.
Jim...
PS: I was the "baby" of his two boys.
My parents were cool with my long hair. It was all their friends who teased me about it. Called me Wilhelmina
.I actually thought that was kinda original. I don't know any Wilhelminas.
- Will (Dragonfly)
I completely agree about the grammar, spelling, and word choice in today’s society. I also agree with the comments of many here like @Gene Neill who say it’s not the teachers fault. However I do not think it is right to blame society, culture, teachers, government officials, or “the system”. All of these are just an extension of shifting the blame. None of these entities is specific in the way in which the term is used and so the words become meaningless. It’s not us its them kind of thinking.
The problem with grammar and word choice in the world today falls to the specific roles of Parents and more specifically the Fathers of children. Now I know I am brushing against forum rules here but it is Fathers who bear the responsibility to educate children and if you want chapter and verse on that PM me and I’ll be glad to share it. In the world today we have become content with single parent homes, and our overwhelming addiction to electronic media devices has led us to a place where most can’t even carry on a conversation.
Go to a restaurant with your family or your wife and look around. There is no noise, no one talks, everyone is looking at their phones, tablets, etc. When people do interface with someone else in speech it is generally shallow and brief. We don’t even know who we are anymore and worse yet we don’t even care to know much about someone else or their struggles in life.
From a parents perspective with 3 boys currently in school I can say that the grammar and word choice is not getting any better. The last parent teacher conference I had was supposed to be 30 min. however it went 1.5 hours where I had to literally ask the teacher why grades were moving 3 letter grades in 24 hours. “I’m behind on grading” or “We don’t have that many assignments so they count for more” were the responses given. Agreeing to that when I asked how I could better assist the teachers all I got were blank stares. One instructor actually thought I was being too hard in requiring my children to learn and fully understand subjects like grammar, spelling, math, and how to literally read a book for research vs pleasure. If kids can’t make it without spell check, google, Wikipedia, or a calculator then we have failed. I have failed. Do my kids struggle at times you betcha but when the light finally turns on they get it and understand it so well they can often help even the teachers to be better instructors by explaining it back to them.
Critical thinking is a thing of the past and even the idea of knowing what questions to ask seems to be lost. For instance this year 2 of my children were working on an assignment where the teachers question was “What was Minnesota’s role in the Revolutionary War”. Both of my children googled it and could find nothing. So I asked them “well what questions should you be asking?”. It took some time and some additional questions for them to realize that Minnesota was not even a state during the Revolutionary War and that we only existed as territories. So because of a poorly worded question and a lack of critical thinking an otherwise easy assignment left many in the class confused.
We as Parents, Grandparents, Family, Friends, and those who care must take the time to get involved and fill this gap. Complaining about bad grammar (and yes there is much to be found here in this rant) without getting involved does nothing. Heck I just this last year began volunteering to help coach a non-athletic extracurricular team at the school. I have more children than I can handle at this point I cannot even find an assistant coach! Not to mention that the teacher whose room we use is more concerned that all her chairs are returned to the proper table than about the kids who are excited to learn critical thinking and problem solving skills after hours.
The problem is us not them. The problem is you and me. After all how many times do you read a text message or email before sending it and how many errors do we miss. We must strive to do better first before we can help others or even begin to point a finger at “them”. Well this rant has gone on long enough. Sorry for the long post but hey the majority of people I encounter will only read the first and last paragraph anyway so perhaps it’s not that long.
The problem with grammar and word choice in the world today falls to the specific roles of Parents and more specifically the Fathers of children. Now I know I am brushing against forum rules here but it is Fathers who bear the responsibility to educate children and if you want chapter and verse on that PM me and I’ll be glad to share it. In the world today we have become content with single parent homes, and our overwhelming addiction to electronic media devices has led us to a place where most can’t even carry on a conversation.
Go to a restaurant with your family or your wife and look around. There is no noise, no one talks, everyone is looking at their phones, tablets, etc. When people do interface with someone else in speech it is generally shallow and brief. We don’t even know who we are anymore and worse yet we don’t even care to know much about someone else or their struggles in life.
From a parents perspective with 3 boys currently in school I can say that the grammar and word choice is not getting any better. The last parent teacher conference I had was supposed to be 30 min. however it went 1.5 hours where I had to literally ask the teacher why grades were moving 3 letter grades in 24 hours. “I’m behind on grading” or “We don’t have that many assignments so they count for more” were the responses given. Agreeing to that when I asked how I could better assist the teachers all I got were blank stares. One instructor actually thought I was being too hard in requiring my children to learn and fully understand subjects like grammar, spelling, math, and how to literally read a book for research vs pleasure. If kids can’t make it without spell check, google, Wikipedia, or a calculator then we have failed. I have failed. Do my kids struggle at times you betcha but when the light finally turns on they get it and understand it so well they can often help even the teachers to be better instructors by explaining it back to them.
Critical thinking is a thing of the past and even the idea of knowing what questions to ask seems to be lost. For instance this year 2 of my children were working on an assignment where the teachers question was “What was Minnesota’s role in the Revolutionary War”. Both of my children googled it and could find nothing. So I asked them “well what questions should you be asking?”. It took some time and some additional questions for them to realize that Minnesota was not even a state during the Revolutionary War and that we only existed as territories. So because of a poorly worded question and a lack of critical thinking an otherwise easy assignment left many in the class confused.
We as Parents, Grandparents, Family, Friends, and those who care must take the time to get involved and fill this gap. Complaining about bad grammar (and yes there is much to be found here in this rant) without getting involved does nothing. Heck I just this last year began volunteering to help coach a non-athletic extracurricular team at the school. I have more children than I can handle at this point I cannot even find an assistant coach! Not to mention that the teacher whose room we use is more concerned that all her chairs are returned to the proper table than about the kids who are excited to learn critical thinking and problem solving skills after hours.
The problem is us not them. The problem is you and me. After all how many times do you read a text message or email before sending it and how many errors do we miss. We must strive to do better first before we can help others or even begin to point a finger at “them”. Well this rant has gone on long enough. Sorry for the long post but hey the majority of people I encounter will only read the first and last paragraph anyway so perhaps it’s not that long.
Although I have no kids in school, I do know 6 working teachers who go from special kindergarten to High School seniors.
The teachers unanimously tell me, that the educational system is in a state of flux, changing almost yearly. Teachers scrabble trying to prepare and follow the new formats and methods. Confusion begins with the teachers, kids follow. I suspect, give up and do what their classmates do.
____
Internet research is faster and maybe more complete that my library research of the past. I had a Physical Chemistry Professor, who gave partial credit to a wrong answer. Why? If he saw your method showed understanding even though the viscosity of water was near 1 centipoise, and your math said 1000. If I scratched out my result and wrote a value near 1, I got credit.
This example is to show you that even internet research helps you understand your answer.
Calculators are great! The key is does the user understand what each button does? If he does, then the calculator adds speed and accuracy.
Bad grammar is a hold over from "kid talk", but you are right, no understanding that it is BAD, leads to poor use when it is required to speak and spell correctly.
Critical Thinking is the toughest of your comments. That is perhaps a trait that can come and go in all of us. It can be situational, like an emergency, or just plain common sense. If you read the true story of Neil Armstrong actual first landing on the moon, you would be amazed at what happen in the last 30 seconds before touchdown. That was true Critical Thinking!
Involvement is always a good thing.
Jim...
PS: Many SBO readers don't read the entire thread, I do or I don't comment.
The teachers unanimously tell me, that the educational system is in a state of flux, changing almost yearly. Teachers scrabble trying to prepare and follow the new formats and methods. Confusion begins with the teachers, kids follow. I suspect, give up and do what their classmates do.
____
Internet research is faster and maybe more complete that my library research of the past. I had a Physical Chemistry Professor, who gave partial credit to a wrong answer. Why? If he saw your method showed understanding even though the viscosity of water was near 1 centipoise, and your math said 1000. If I scratched out my result and wrote a value near 1, I got credit.
This example is to show you that even internet research helps you understand your answer.
Calculators are great! The key is does the user understand what each button does? If he does, then the calculator adds speed and accuracy.
Bad grammar is a hold over from "kid talk", but you are right, no understanding that it is BAD, leads to poor use when it is required to speak and spell correctly.
Critical Thinking is the toughest of your comments. That is perhaps a trait that can come and go in all of us. It can be situational, like an emergency, or just plain common sense. If you read the true story of Neil Armstrong actual first landing on the moon, you would be amazed at what happen in the last 30 seconds before touchdown. That was true Critical Thinking!
Involvement is always a good thing.
Jim...
PS: Many SBO readers don't read the entire thread, I do or I don't comment.
Many times, when I look at a modern curriculum it appears that a primary goal is to encourage the loss of critical thinking. I find this disturbing.
And I thank the gods that I have no children for whom to fear.
Purposely uncapitalized the god word.
Purposely uncapitalized the god word.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,663
Some say. Oh John your an old foo foo. You don’t understand. Better to just get out of the way and let us take over.
Maybe. It has been said by young generations before. But this time it feels different. For one the constructs of Family, morality, and commitment are changed.
This leaves me concerned for grandkids.
Well, unfortunately, we do need some administrators. How about reversing the salaries of teachers and admins. Make it harder to gain the status of teacher by having them do admin work first.
Actually, Kermit, "teacher's jobs" could also be correct. As a teacher, I had many jobs. Not all were instructional.That explains the misplaced apostrophe.