Interior Salon Arrangement

[JeffSwans]

I have had my 81 Cherubini 33 for about a year and getting most of the quirks figured out.

One thing that has bugged me is the layout of the table in the salon. Since, alas, I do not race and I cruise with a crew that includes a couple of 12 year olds, the table would sit much better athwart than parallel. Anybody aware of a reason that I can not cut into the existing fiberglass bunks and rebuild (glassed marine ply?) them so that the benches face each other and the table drops on for a berth?

Anybody seen this done?

Thanks for any tips

 

[jssailem]

Jeff
Have not seen such on a Cherubini, but considering the same on my boat. Thoughts we have been considering include, Raising the table and bench seats 12 inches so we can look outside of the boat from the booth seating. Issue of sitting in the booth when the boat is healed over. Set up may give more storage space. Proper bracing may impact the stringers below the sole. there are lots of positives and perhaps negatives in the process.
Remember that it is your boat and redesign is an owners decision.

 

[centerline]

DONT cut into the fiberglass liner... its a structural part of the boat. you can drill a hole to pass wires or mount a switch, but when you start cutting it away to modify the interior, you will find a point where the saw blade pinches within the cut. this is the point where you have just very expensivly broken your boat.

the liner is what keeps the hull rigid and keeps the flex to a minimum.... without the liner, the rigging couldnt be tensioned. there is no integrity to the hull without its intact fiberglass liner.

old boats used wood stringers and web frames to keep the hull rigid, but boats with liners no longer have/need wood stringers and web frames to do the job.

 

[SailormanDan]

I was thinking it sounded like a lot of effort to convert it to a dinette style like my old C22 was and would rather spend that time sailing, but Centerline has an excellent point about the molded interior being structural as well as decorative.

 

[CloudDiver]

There is a great deal of engineering that goes into sailboat hull design, but sometimes that wealth of knowledge and science does not translate into interior design aesthetics. On Super Yachts (if you read about them and drool as much as I do) you'll notice that there is a Hull Designer, Naval Architects and a completely different person or group that is assigned as the interior designer or design firm. This usually does not happen on factory boats under 40 ft.
With that said, you'll notice many variations between interiors designed for racing, for cruising alone, and for hybrid racer/cruisers. For example, cruisers like pilot berths if the beam allows, or at least one quarter berth under the cockpit that allows quick access to the companionway. There are numerous other design variations geared toward cruisers, where there are others that racers like. If you are interested, there is a Facebook group called 'Sailboat Interiors' that is specifically about interior designs and their modifications, restorations, or other enhancements.
For your Hunter, I second Centerline's comments. In no way should you ever cut into the interior liner or pan to make modifications. Besides the structural issues he mentioned, you are killing your resale value with modifications that are not easily reversed to stock condition. I know you may not care about resale value, but you should. There might be several things you can do to the table to modify it to your needs that are not permanent, sometimes that means removing and stowing the original and building something to you liking.

 

[Stu Jackson]

the table would sit much better athwart than parallel.

Jeff, there are many of us who feel that a more traditional table arrangement is far superior to a dinette arrangement. Our Catalina 25 (ours from 1987-1998) came with basically two varieties of layouts: traditional or dinette. The traditional provided a ton of room for such a small boat down below, while the dinette ate up ALL of the space and made the EXACT SAME FLOOR SPACE feel a LOT smaller.

I found this to be true of a friend's Hunter 34, so lest you think this applies to only small boats, that's not the case.

In addition to what the other folks' good advice is, carefully consider the visual, physical and ergonomic issues that you would be modifying.

If what you do doesn't allow you to go back, you could well be unsatisfied with no recourse.

Another example: we have a large saloon table. Many have found it burdensome to get around it, and some have thought about a complete redesign, as you have. The most elegant solution that one of our skippers finally came up with years and years ago, emulated by many others, is to simply either cut the table down a small amount or remove the big one, store it at home and install a smaller one! No fiberglass work involved.

Good luck.

 

[jssailem]

to Stu's suggestions.
Changes have consequences. Make no rash decision.

 

[JeffSwans]

Thanks for that input. I have only occasionally posted, but I have read tons of stuff here that has been most useful. Thanks to all for sharing their knowledge.

Question, though. What do you mean when you say liner? Do you mean that the fiberglass partitions that create the internal storage berths upon which the cushions sit? I can see how they might be structural in nature.

 

[SFS]

The hull was built, and then a molded fiberglass insert was dropped into the hull and attached. This insert is the "liner" that is being referred to. Then the deck was put on and attached. Think of it as (basically) a three piece boat.

 

[SailormanDan]

Stick your head down in the lockers under the settee and look at how they are glassed into the rest of the boat, that might give you some idea.

 

[rardiH36]

I don't have your boat. So I can't comment with any conviction.

But in regards to your question in a general manner. Look for "out of the box" alternatives. With the mindset such as "It's Only a Table". Must be all sort of ways to mount it that are not destructive to the boat. Maybe only a few new hole/bolts/screws are necessary. Enough to make it secure but not to change the structural integrity of your boat. The table can be a removable feature. When not used for eating, or for the all guests to put their laptops/tablets/smartphones on, the surface also might be moved into a sleeping configuration.

Here is a picture of Hunter's 1980 table mounting setup for their 1980 Cherubini 36. Just a tube secured to the floor. (The table in the picture though is smaller which I made for my mostly day-sailing needs.) The larger original Hunter table is conveniently stowed in the forepeak. If I have some guests, I use that one. After dinner, the Hunter table sets into the spaces between the settees. I move the cushions around and the area becomes becomes a double bed.

To re-create Hunter's method on my boat: A couple of 1.5" hot dipped galvanized flanges bolted onto the floor. A couple of (say) 30" 1.5" piece of pipe to screw in or remove if not needed. Then on the underside of the table top, it doesn't take much to make an assembly that the table can just be dropped on to the pipes when the table is needed.

Of course, this arrangement won't stand up to people sitting along the edge or jumping around on it. But Hunter's design on my boat wouldn't tolerate that either!

Just some ideas.

 

[centerline]

Thanks for that input.

Question, though. What do you mean when you say liner? Do you mean that the fiberglass partitions that create the internal storage berths upon which the cushions sit? I can see how they might be structural in nature.

Yes, any and all of the molded gelcoated part of the boat you see when you are inside it... the floor, the settee bases, the head pan, the fiberglass base of the Vberth... the foundation that eveything else in the boat is setting on is the liner, and the voids within it create places for tankage and storage.
Any overhead gelcoat is the overhead liner, and it is structural on some boats, but not on others...

 

[JeffSwans]

I don't have your boat. So I can't comment with any conviction.

But in regards to your question in a general manner. Look for "out of the box" alternatives. With the mindset such as "It's Only a Table". Must be all sort of ways to mount it that are not destructive to the boat. Maybe only a few new hole/bolts/screws are necessary. Enough to make it secure but not to change the structural integrity of your boat. The table can be a removable feature. When not used for eating, or for the all guests to put their laptops/tablets/smartphones on, the surface also might be moved into a sleeping configuration.

Here is a picture of Hunter's 1980 table mounting setup for their 1980 Cherubini 36. Just a tube secured to the floor. (The table in the picture though is smaller which I made for my mostly day-sailing needs.) The larger original Hunter table is conveniently stowed in the forepeak. If I have some guests, I use that one. After dinner, the Hunter table sets into the spaces between the settees. I move the cushions around and the area becomes becomes a double bed.

To re-create Hunter's method on my boat: A couple of 1.5" hot dipped galvanized flanges bolted onto the floor. A couple of (say) 30" 1.5" piece of pipe to screw in or remove if not needed. Then on the underside of the table top, it doesn't take much to make an assembly that the table can just be dropped on to the pipes when the table is needed.

Of course, this arrangement won't stand up to people sitting along the edge or jumping around on it. But Hunter's design on my boat wouldn't tolerate that either!

Just some ideas.

 

[JeffSwans]

Thanks for that idea. As I look into your photo, the berth that I see opposite was the original and you have added the extensions left and right? Great idea.

And since you are not cutting into the existing walls, you do no damage. Is that the general idea?

 

[Alctel]

I don't have your boat. So I can't comment with any conviction.

But in regards to your question in a general manner. Look for "out of the box" alternatives. With the mindset such as "It's Only a Table". Must be all sort of ways to mount it that are not destructive to the boat. Maybe only a few new hole/bolts/screws are necessary. Enough to make it secure but not to change the structural integrity of your boat. The table can be a removable feature. When not used for eating, or for the all guests to put their laptops/tablets/smartphones on, the surface also might be moved into a sleeping configuration.

Here is a picture of Hunter's 1980 table mounting setup for their 1980 Cherubini 36. Just a tube secured to the floor. (The table in the picture though is smaller which I made for my mostly day-sailing needs.) The larger original Hunter table is conveniently stowed in the forepeak. If I have some guests, I use that one. After dinner, the Hunter table sets into the spaces between the settees. I move the cushions around and the area becomes becomes a double bed.

To re-create Hunter's method on my boat: A couple of 1.5" hot dipped galvanized flanges bolted onto the floor. A couple of (say) 30" 1.5" piece of pipe to screw in or remove if not needed. Then on the underside of the table top, it doesn't take much to make an assembly that the table can just be dropped on to the pipes when the table is needed.

Of course, this arrangement won't stand up to people sitting along the edge or jumping around on it. But Hunter's design on my boat wouldn't tolerate that either!

Just some ideas.

I've said this before but your boat is so clean!

 

[rardiH36]

Thanks for that idea. As I look into your photo, the berth that I see opposite was the original and you have added the extensions left and right? Great idea.

And since you are not cutting into the existing walls, you do no damage. Is that the general idea?

Hello Jeff:

I am not exactly sure that your quote pertains to my input (rardiH36 4:55 pm last Friday). But if so, as I prefaced in that post, we don't have the same boat. What you see in my picture totally is Hunter's original configuration for their Cherubini 36 model. Only change is the smaller table that I cobbled together out a a large serving tray! The table's tube and it's matching floor fitting is OEM.

 

[rardiH36]

I've said this before but your boat is so clean!

Alctel:

Thanks. The picture is the interior at its best several years ago. But over the past couple of years, although I haven't let it go completely, I haven't been as diligent about "keeping up appearances" as I used to be.

After pondering about it for several weeks, I just today figured out how I can bolt through an inside jib sheet t-track (to upgrade from our toe rail sheeting arrangement) without compromising the symbiotic structural integrity that the deck and interior ceiling line provide. The drilling/cutting is going to make a real mess inside the cabin. After done, it's time again for a really deep cleaning!