Interested in a sail boat for living

[David]

I'll keep this pretty short as I really don't know too much about all the different sailboats. I used to live on a houseboat, and really loved the life. Mine was basically a large RV set on pontoons. It was nice, but got heavily damanged in a storm, so I got rid of it. I wasn't much of a fan of the layout or the square design for that matter. Fast forward!I'm now considering life on a boat again. This time I'd like something I don't have to spend tens of thousands of dollars a year in diesel costs. I've always loved how graceful sailboats were, so it was something I was considering, and it would certainly help with the upfront costs.I've been browsing places like yachtworld to get an idea on pricing, it looks fairly reasonable, actually. I'm comparing what I would spend on a home and what I would get vs. a sailboat. I'm quite aware the sailboat would have less living space, but it would of course have the inherit advantage of being a *sailboat*. My pricerange is something up to about 300,000. I'd *really* like if I could find a sailboat that could take me from mainland USA to Hawaii and back, or mainland to Europe (even if multiple stops are necessary, as long as it's doable). Something I could only do in a sailboat, never a motor boat! I love relaxing, cruising, and I can run my business from anywhere, as long as I can get internet access (satellite should do me fine.)Here is where my inexperience comes into play. I don't really know much about sailboats at all, and searching google yielded me a bunch of spam sale sites, with very little good information. I finally found these forums and thought I'd give it a shot. I used to love how the catamarans looked, and how the tri-hulls looked, but I don't know what the size difference is like in terms of living space with the monohulls, nor the ability of the ship to sail/handle seas.I'd like something with at least interior living space of 500 sq feet, preferably larger but I realize my monetary constraint might be an issue. If that's true, please do let me know! PS - I am talking about buying used, I don't think it's wise to pay the new-boat tax that your boat drops in value the instant you put it in the water. I'd like an enclosed pilot house too, because if I am cruising the sea, I'd want to be able to stay out of the salt spray sometimes.Now, on to sailing itself. I've got some understanding of the basics, what I could figure out from google. If you have some informative sites, I'd love to read up on it instead of wasting your time trying to explain it to me. I'm assuming that I'll need at least two people for "sailing reasons" to do such a long sailing trip? I'm sure from a safety perspective it's better.I'm not married now (the only reason I can even consider this..hehe) but I do intend to marry eventually. I'd like a sailboat that a woman (while not her first choice) wouldn't moan and gripe about either. IE possible to put in nice appliances, have *decent* kitchen room, etc.This may be too tall of an order, I'm quite aware of that. I just know so little, and I'd really like to learn more about all of this, and see what is possible.I really appreciate any help you can give me, even if it's just links to reference material.Thank you so much,David

 

[David]

Correction to a few words

I mean to say "long-term costs" instead of "upfront costs" in the first paragraph, sorry!

 

[Ross]

David, you need more basic knowledge

before we can discuss this very well. 500 square feet of living space puts you in the range of 50-60 foot boats. These are expensive to buy , to own and you will need a crew to sail one.

 

[Bob]

Something like this?

I would buy this and as Captain Ron said "If it's gonna happen, its gonna happen out there". Look at the previously enjoyed one. I saw this boat in Miami at the boat show they sailed it up from South Africa. It was very nice for the size/ price. Of coarse if you don't give me another year or so and I will...then you could buy my H30 its got all the room in the world and uses only 1/2 gallon an hour. Ok so I'm a marketing guy.BobAlways Something

 

[David]

First followup

Bob,Thank you, I will look at the link when I get a chance later and follow up here. Ross,When you say a "crew", how many are we talking? In terms of ownership costs, I'm not as concerned with up-front as I am with the long-term/reoccuring costs.Thank you both kindly.

 

[David]

Where?

Ross,I'd also like to have more knowledge of what I'm discussing. Do you have any suggested links for reading? I'm quite aware of my ignorance when it comes to sailing/sailboats. That is why I am here, looking for information! I'm not prepared by any means to make a purchase because I have no idea what I need at this point, or even if my thoughts are possible.

 

[Franklin]

oh boy....

Many newbies want to buy a boat and sail around the world. Some newbies want to buy a boat and live on it. Few want to buy a boat, live on it and cross oceans, like you, but you fall in the category of wanting to do all that and have a boat that a woman would like...this makes you special At least it took me 2 years before I starting thinking of sailing around the world and another year to move onboard Ok...enough playing around. What you want is a blue water boat. Lots of disagreements about this but one thing for sure, you can afford a blue water boat. HOWEVER, your not going to afford one with 500 sq feet...more like 220 to 300 sq feet depending on the brand/quality you go with. So, do some searching on Blue Water sailboats and read all the opinions and facts and so on. There are a ton of them out there. Then go to the shipyards and look at the boats underbelly. Then go to the docks and look at the boats top sides. Look at the difference in how they are built. Then start looking at boats for sale.This is not something your going to want to just jump into. BUT...before you do any of this, join a sailing club and go sailing first. First learn to see if you like it and to do that, you will want to at least find yourself in at least one blow in open water. That can really change one's mind quickly.After you've found that you like sailing, then take lessions while continuing to get experience in the club. Then start chartering boats to get a feel for how they sail.After all that, you will have a very good base to make an educated decision.

 

[David]

Thanks Franklin

I'm flexible on the pricing, I just wanted to start with 300,000. Remember, I am talking about used boats here. If I need to move the # upwards, that's always a possibility if warrented.Good idea about the sailing club, there is one about 100m from my house. That'll be a good way to pick up real-world experience.I'll search on blue water sailboats now as well, and read up! Thanks for the "direction", that's what I was missing.Bob, I looked at that boat, it looks great. That's very much the kind of boat I've been around/been on and liked very much. I like the fact the cats have a nice big top deck, because I do enjoy entertaining fairly decent sized groups of people, even if it just might be at the slip (my old boat was a double-decker, totally open top deck with just railing.)

 

[Reynolds]

Be careful

Who you are taking advie from #6, and others that are liveaboard know it alls that have never been across an ocean.Many of my friends and I have made the Hawaii crossing on several occasions and the 2000 + nautical miles is no cake walk, and no place for inexperience either.A small boat sailing around the islands, especailly the Molokia express, is the best way to decide on the best yacht for you.As a general rule, good performers are narrow and sleek, while cruisers are beamy and slow. Catamarans always sound good when thinking of an anchorage or space. Then there are the gales that WILL catch you and if you go over in a cat that's it it aint comming back up, there are many true stories about people spending a month or more in an upturned multi.The slip fees are always going to be more by a factor or + for a multi too.This is not a good place for advice on this subject.

 

[Don]

You're in the right place David

Hawaii is the used boat capitol - full of used boats for sale by people who shared your dream, started out on the west coast of north america bound for the pacific and ended in Hawaii when they realized it was different than what they expected. Good luck

 

[David]

Hm

Well, let's remove ocean-crossing from the picture then, obviously I am too ignorant to even *consider* this possibility as per Reynolds' comment.So, just a nice liveaboard for a big lake, then. I'm planning to eventually head back to the mainland, so no problem there, I can pick up a used boat. I'll probably be in Texas.How's a cat in a lake-like scenario? No gales to contend with. A lake-worthy cat, with a fair amount of space (so the woman won't moan), is that more do-able?Thank you to those who responded with helpful information,David

 

[Franklin]

Reynolds

If you or anybody else has issues as to my advice, then feel free to rebut it. If you don't or can't, then shut the hell up!

 

[Franklin]

Cats

There are some bluewater cats but they cost an arm and a leg but like Reynolds said, if you screw up and get it capsized, it ain't coming back over.Cats are great in that they can go right up to the beach sometimes and that they have a lot of room inside. The downsides are the capsizing already talked about and that they sometimes can carry less weight then a mono-hulled counterpart. Another big disadvantage is that they don't go to wind well. Great for running with the wind though and can go pretty fast.Also, they are wider and take either two slips or an end slip or an extra wide slip. This cost more money too.

 

[David]

Franklin, about cats

How about from a lake-worthy perspective? Would a cat be a good idea there? I really do like the larger size, I suppose that's my main concern. I can always get a purpose-built ocean cruiser if I decide to go that route later in life.Maybe now with my experience level, something on a lake would make more sense. The larger space of a cat would pay off immensely.Now, to sail a decent sized cat (40-60' let's say), how many people are we talking about? 2?In terms of cost, are sailboats generally more expensive or less expensive then equivilantly sized powerboats? That way I can get an idea what I'm looking at (I know a decent amount about powerboats at least, I'm not a complete ignorant fool..) It would also help me get an idea about the scale of pricing.

 

[sailaway78]

buying a boat

Best advice on here is to look, look, look, and then look some more. I would also strongly recommend buying a smaller boat first. Learning will be an easier process this way. Last but not least, before you buy that dream boat, be sure exactly what you want, and rule out things you don't want. Then do not compromise from that position.

 

[NautiDuck]

Oh my

We just went from around-the-world cruising to a lake in Texas. David, get yourself a small sailboat, something under 30 feet, and use it for a year. Cruise around the islands. See if you enjoy sailing. Do some more thinking about where and how you want to live. Then post again with a more specific set of guidelines. I think you'll end up answering most of the questions yourself.

 

[Ross]

All trhat I know about Cat's (The boat kind)

is that they are completely stabile either side up. that having been said some of the modern monohulls aren't a whole lot better. Check the "point of vanishing positive stability".

 

[Franklin]

David

As far as what crew you will need, that all depends on the boat and how you sail it. My boat is a 37' and I sail it single handed mostly. Most wouldn't even try that with my size of boat but I find it very easy. Why? All the lines run to the cockpit and I don't fly a spinacker (yet). Docking is a peace of cake for me now but I had growing pains like all of us do.Many talk about size when they talk about a boat needing a crew but I don't think size is the key. A 110 lb woman sailed around the world alone on a 70' cat. There is a cat in my marina that a guy takes out by himself all the time and it's hugh. That should tell you something. Experience and knowledge paid big dividends. The right boat helps as well. Determination also helps. Notice...experience is very important on a Cat. So going out alone on a cat on anything other then a light day can be dangerous for a starter.As for a lake, just about anything is safe in a lake under normal conditions. But...cats can capsize from the wind alone and mono-hulls can't (large waves knock them over). However, in a lake, help is usually not far away.Maybe others can say about the cost difference. I don't know anything about powerboats.

 

[David]

Heh

Nautiduck,Thanks. My whole point of posting such (apparently mind boggling) questions IS to learn. It's working. I've already figured out a lot of things that would have taken trial and error to figure out on my own, just from a lot of the responses.We didn't go from anything to anything. I simply started with the largest possible request (which I stated I didn't even know if was possible) and am moving down the ladder to figure out where I need to start. Obviously, I've got that information now, join a sailing club, try the real thing out, see how I like it and go from there.Now I'm just looking for good informative sites where I can do some heavy reading/learning. Then I'll be good to go.Thanks again all.

 

[Franklin]

check the archives

There is tons of information in there as well as lots of book suggestions.