Insurance confusion! Buying a new 44', I have recd a couple quotes. Covering Hull at purchased value with east,west coast of Florida up to Canada. HIGH at that. Any suggestions on Companies and any feed back on the companies, I have read some are good and others are horrible. Most quotes are around $2700. Is this about right??
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Carmen,
Who do you have your auto, home, etc. coverage with?... State Farm, Allstate, ???? Both cover boats... I have State Farm... UNLIMITED (yes, UNLIMITED) coverage for my 2001, H420 is about $850.00/year. You might want to call your agent ... can't hurt.
Who do you have your auto, home, etc. coverage with?... State Farm, Allstate, ???? Both cover boats... I have State Farm... UNLIMITED (yes, UNLIMITED) coverage for my 2001, H420 is about $850.00/year. You might want to call your agent ... can't hurt.
That's the truth
Mine is $500.00 with Allstate and Boat US was less but for poorer coverage. If you're not going to places like the Marquesas or transiting one of the major canals, you don't need coverage like that. (expensive) My agreed value with Allstate, on my H34 is $80K
Mine is $500.00 with Allstate and Boat US was less but for poorer coverage. If you're not going to places like the Marquesas or transiting one of the major canals, you don't need coverage like that. (expensive) My agreed value with Allstate, on my H34 is $80K
Travlers
Mine is with Travlers for a Cat350 2003 limited to the Delaware and Chesapeake for 800, when I was getting quotes I know BoatUS was at least 300 more. Buck certianly seem to have a deal.
Mine is with Travlers for a Cat350 2003 limited to the Delaware and Chesapeake for 800, when I was getting quotes I know BoatUS was at least 300 more. Buck certianly seem to have a deal.
Try IMIS
Ask for June....web at <http://www.imiscorp.net/> or call (410) 827-3757 They're a brokerage (they advertise in most of the sailing pubs), and have been very helpful. Currently carry our '67 30' sloop, they're working some great estimates for us with a brand new 35' boat. Fair winds, Bill
Ask for June....web at <http://www.imiscorp.net/> or call (410) 827-3757 They're a brokerage (they advertise in most of the sailing pubs), and have been very helpful. Currently carry our '67 30' sloop, they're working some great estimates for us with a brand new 35' boat. Fair winds, Bill
Try Boat US or West Marine Insurance
BoatUS is very competitive and great service based on my experience.
BoatUS is very competitive and great service based on my experience.
Boat Insurance
I feel your pain. Having recently been shopping for insurance I can tell you that prices are ALL OVER THE PLACE. My 1980 Sparkman & Stephans designed Tartan 33 is out of the insurable window for some companies. I received quotes for $1600 from BoatUS, West Marine would not quote (curious since WM owns B.US) National Marine Underwriters increased my rate from $560 per year to over $1300 to renew. Ended up with a broker located in Tampa that represents Allstate, They were able to get the required survey within the last yearn recinded and they accepted the survey completed in 2002 and insured my boat for $316. Bottom line, you must shop. Your boat is new and it should be easier, however many insurance companies are very leerie of covering boats in Florida, (after the losses in 1992 and the cheesie hurricane last year). Good luck in you search.
I feel your pain. Having recently been shopping for insurance I can tell you that prices are ALL OVER THE PLACE. My 1980 Sparkman & Stephans designed Tartan 33 is out of the insurable window for some companies. I received quotes for $1600 from BoatUS, West Marine would not quote (curious since WM owns B.US) National Marine Underwriters increased my rate from $560 per year to over $1300 to renew. Ended up with a broker located in Tampa that represents Allstate, They were able to get the required survey within the last yearn recinded and they accepted the survey completed in 2002 and insured my boat for $316. Bottom line, you must shop. Your boat is new and it should be easier, however many insurance companies are very leerie of covering boats in Florida, (after the losses in 1992 and the cheesie hurricane last year). Good luck in you search.
boat US
Ours is about $800 py with a $1000 deductible..for our 1985 46' morgan. We had our first claim this year....we hit a debris field coming out of Baltimore last june.,,causing a spike in alternater and over heating of the engine.although our itake was clear......long story short turns out the head warped on our 18 yo perkins 4-108 and after Boat US had their surveyor look at the engine they decided the engine needed to be dismantled to determin the cause..the engine was pulled dismantled and diagnosed, determining water had gotten into the engine....Boat US paid a claim based on that.....the surveyor and the claims adjuster were all professional...however timly was another matter.....(I do feel fortunate the claim was paid however)...the check arrived December 12th......from June to December is how long it took .....we took the check and applied it towards a new engine that was just installed.......however Since we had a small loan on the boat, Boat US sent the check to us and the bank..both had to sign in order to pay the marina and engine supplier.......I talked with the bank...but they refused to co sign until the engine installation was complete......causing us to shell out the $ on our credit card for the engine and repairs until the bank decided to release the funds. After the engine was installed and all work finished....Febuary 3rd...we notified the bank. They intern said they would endorse the check so we could pay the credit card company and our marina.......we recived the endorsed Boat US check from the bank on Feb 6th.....When we opened it it was endorsed..however it was endorsed to be payed to the marina ONLY........Even though we had payed for the engine from our credit card.....Luckily the owner of the marina has been involved scince the begining and is a fair and reasonalble person......We agreed that I would turn over the complete Boat US check to him...He would then reissue us a new check from his marina for the amount of the check less the amount due for work that has been performed......we intern took his check and payed off the credit card that had the new engine on it....now when the marina sends us the final invoice for the installation we have the $ in the bank.........This all worked out in the end..we have a new engine and a fair insurance settlement....however what a hassle......from the insurance co end but mostly from our bank...........The long and short of it is insurance companies and banks are buisnesses and are protecting their investments........I think the days of my broker looking after my best intrests are gone. heres to s safe and enjoyable spring sail! Rob
Ours is about $800 py with a $1000 deductible..for our 1985 46' morgan. We had our first claim this year....we hit a debris field coming out of Baltimore last june.,,causing a spike in alternater and over heating of the engine.although our itake was clear......long story short turns out the head warped on our 18 yo perkins 4-108 and after Boat US had their surveyor look at the engine they decided the engine needed to be dismantled to determin the cause..the engine was pulled dismantled and diagnosed, determining water had gotten into the engine....Boat US paid a claim based on that.....the surveyor and the claims adjuster were all professional...however timly was another matter.....(I do feel fortunate the claim was paid however)...the check arrived December 12th......from June to December is how long it took .....we took the check and applied it towards a new engine that was just installed.......however Since we had a small loan on the boat, Boat US sent the check to us and the bank..both had to sign in order to pay the marina and engine supplier.......I talked with the bank...but they refused to co sign until the engine installation was complete......causing us to shell out the $ on our credit card for the engine and repairs until the bank decided to release the funds. After the engine was installed and all work finished....Febuary 3rd...we notified the bank. They intern said they would endorse the check so we could pay the credit card company and our marina.......we recived the endorsed Boat US check from the bank on Feb 6th.....When we opened it it was endorsed..however it was endorsed to be payed to the marina ONLY........Even though we had payed for the engine from our credit card.....Luckily the owner of the marina has been involved scince the begining and is a fair and reasonalble person......We agreed that I would turn over the complete Boat US check to him...He would then reissue us a new check from his marina for the amount of the check less the amount due for work that has been performed......we intern took his check and payed off the credit card that had the new engine on it....now when the marina sends us the final invoice for the installation we have the $ in the bank.........This all worked out in the end..we have a new engine and a fair insurance settlement....however what a hassle......from the insurance co end but mostly from our bank...........The long and short of it is insurance companies and banks are buisnesses and are protecting their investments........I think the days of my broker looking after my best intrests are gone. heres to s safe and enjoyable spring sail! Rob
forgot to add
2 days after we recieved our Boat US insurance check we recived a notice wanting to know if the repairs were completed..... I sent a letter back stating where we were and expecting repairs to be complete by early Feb. the following week I recived a cancelation notice due to failure to comply with Timely repairs.....after 4 phone calls and 2 faxes to Boat US underwriters office...I was informed that the cancelation notice was canceled......2 days latter I recived a written notice that the cancelation notice was canceled.....I have kept ALL corespondence. CYA
2 days after we recieved our Boat US insurance check we recived a notice wanting to know if the repairs were completed..... I sent a letter back stating where we were and expecting repairs to be complete by early Feb. the following week I recived a cancelation notice due to failure to comply with Timely repairs.....after 4 phone calls and 2 faxes to Boat US underwriters office...I was informed that the cancelation notice was canceled......2 days latter I recived a written notice that the cancelation notice was canceled.....I have kept ALL corespondence. CYA
I current insurance is by the Zurich Ins folks which I aquired through a broker (Bay agency, nj). I pay just under $800.00. Boatus was several hundred dollars more expensive. Boat is a 2002 H356. Also boatus was less coverage. My son just bought a 1985 O'Day 22. State Farm wanted over $600 and boatus was around $200. Keep shopping and compare coverage and sailing area.
I have Travelers for a 2003 Catalina 350. Area of coverage is Chesapeake Bay, Delaware River, Delaware Bay, and the Inland Waterway down to North Carolina. Pay about $700. I also own a 1976 Catalina 22 and purchased insurance through BoatUS for it. For the 350, BoatUS was more expensive for a smaller area of coverage.
Rob, your insurance/bank story is a good example
of why I think of financial companies the way I do. Insurance was invented by Benjamin Franklin. Yes, another great idea. But, his idea was the co-op. Everyone pooled their premiums and when someone had a loss,,, well, you know. As time went on, in the American way, somebody figured out how to keep a little cash in their pocket from the premiums. Sort of a service charge for managing the fund. Insurance as we know it today was born and then evolved. The industry operates with the 'filtering principal'. Rates are set for life insurance based upon the likely hood of your life ending when if you, metaphorically, sift through a colander as if your life were a pebble. Property losses are based upon their likely hood of a loss based upon risk exposure. (whew, never mind, nobody cares) In any case, insurance companies charge 50% more in premiums than what their likely loss will be. Something to think about when you are deciding how much risk to transfer to them with your premium. Now banks, that's another story. A hundred or more years ago, some people in this country would shoot you if you offered to help them out with a 'loan'. The only reason, they felt, anyone would want to loan money was to later foreclose (mortgage) and take the farm. Using farmers money to lend back to them to later take away farms was thought by many to be a charlatan business. In any case both of these business have one thing in common. They manipulate money that they get from you to make money from YOU. Sure, they also do a service. But we must pay the smallest amount possible for that service. That too, is the American way. In the 'old country' where my relatives come from, there is no such thing as mortgages as we know them. A couple marries. They live with one of their parents for a few years. The man works. (I said it was the old country
) They don't have any housing costs. No rent is charged. In about five years, he buys a house and they are off. Where did we go wrong! Now we have computers. Plug your income into a spreadsheet and see how quickly you would be able to pay cash for your home if you had free rent. Some times the old ways are best. Keep all of this in mind when you drive past new buildings. How many of them are for banks and insurance companies? How many of those are financed by somebody else? What an economy. And we are inflation dependent because of it. Aw, just some thoughts on a cold (but beautiful) morning.
of why I think of financial companies the way I do. Insurance was invented by Benjamin Franklin. Yes, another great idea. But, his idea was the co-op. Everyone pooled their premiums and when someone had a loss,,, well, you know. As time went on, in the American way, somebody figured out how to keep a little cash in their pocket from the premiums. Sort of a service charge for managing the fund. Insurance as we know it today was born and then evolved. The industry operates with the 'filtering principal'. Rates are set for life insurance based upon the likely hood of your life ending when if you, metaphorically, sift through a colander as if your life were a pebble. Property losses are based upon their likely hood of a loss based upon risk exposure. (whew, never mind, nobody cares) In any case, insurance companies charge 50% more in premiums than what their likely loss will be. Something to think about when you are deciding how much risk to transfer to them with your premium. Now banks, that's another story. A hundred or more years ago, some people in this country would shoot you if you offered to help them out with a 'loan'. The only reason, they felt, anyone would want to loan money was to later foreclose (mortgage) and take the farm. Using farmers money to lend back to them to later take away farms was thought by many to be a charlatan business. In any case both of these business have one thing in common. They manipulate money that they get from you to make money from YOU. Sure, they also do a service. But we must pay the smallest amount possible for that service. That too, is the American way. In the 'old country' where my relatives come from, there is no such thing as mortgages as we know them. A couple marries. They live with one of their parents for a few years. The man works. (I said it was the old country
) They don't have any housing costs. No rent is charged. In about five years, he buys a house and they are off. Where did we go wrong! Now we have computers. Plug your income into a spreadsheet and see how quickly you would be able to pay cash for your home if you had free rent. Some times the old ways are best. Keep all of this in mind when you drive past new buildings. How many of them are for banks and insurance companies? How many of those are financed by somebody else? What an economy. And we are inflation dependent because of it. Aw, just some thoughts on a cold (but beautiful) morning.Darrel of Lighthouse point
Allstate has come in with the best so far. Unsure of how they are when it comes to claims. Agreed Hull value over 250K only good for 3yrs w/1/2mil liabil,etc.. Hope I am not missing anything... thanks for your response
Allstate has come in with the best so far. Unsure of how they are when it comes to claims. Agreed Hull value over 250K only good for 3yrs w/1/2mil liabil,etc.. Hope I am not missing anything... thanks for your response
Aw, Fred....
...that 50% figure is not quite accurate. First, if you want the same type of cooperative insurer you were mentioning, they still exist. They are Reciprocals. USAA is one. I think your notion of the 50% stems from an old rule of thumb that insurers carry about 50% in stand-by dollars for every dollar they write in premium. They don't charge you 150%. That's bad math. It just means that if a company is selling and renewing two billion of insurance each year, they may have somewhere in the neighborhood of a billion in liquid dollars, most invested in bonds. That's your security, and the investment yield works to reduce the premiums paid by their customers. Insurance is one of the few businesses where profit and cooperatives compete in the same market. The reason is that the margins are not huge anyway. If that two billion insurer made three percent off the premiums and five off the half billion invested, they'd be viewed as doing very well. Rick D. PS: Rob: the insurance company had to put the bank's name on the claim check. The policy says "any loss is payable to...." you will find that there is an endorsement, required by the bank as a condition of giving you the loan, that requires loss payments be made to them. That's your agreement with the bank, not the insurance company's. They are just executing on your agreement. Still, they ought to have told you what to expect up front. RD
...that 50% figure is not quite accurate. First, if you want the same type of cooperative insurer you were mentioning, they still exist. They are Reciprocals. USAA is one. I think your notion of the 50% stems from an old rule of thumb that insurers carry about 50% in stand-by dollars for every dollar they write in premium. They don't charge you 150%. That's bad math. It just means that if a company is selling and renewing two billion of insurance each year, they may have somewhere in the neighborhood of a billion in liquid dollars, most invested in bonds. That's your security, and the investment yield works to reduce the premiums paid by their customers. Insurance is one of the few businesses where profit and cooperatives compete in the same market. The reason is that the margins are not huge anyway. If that two billion insurer made three percent off the premiums and five off the half billion invested, they'd be viewed as doing very well. Rick D. PS: Rob: the insurance company had to put the bank's name on the claim check. The policy says "any loss is payable to...." you will find that there is an endorsement, required by the bank as a condition of giving you the loan, that requires loss payments be made to them. That's your agreement with the bank, not the insurance company's. They are just executing on your agreement. Still, they ought to have told you what to expect up front. RD
Lessons to be learned.
I'll share a couple of insights that others may profit from your story. First, part of the hassle is there because too many jerks are not as responsible as you are Rob. Part of it is simply contractual and part is because you didn't have enough experience to make someone behave. The contractual part is your loan and your policy. In your loan you agreed to insure the boat and contract with the insurance company to make the bank an insured under the policy. The policy contract requires the Insurance company to make all insureds payees of claims. That is actually partly for your protection as well. The jerks in this world will take the insurance checks, default on the loan and leave the bank stuck with worthless collateral. By tightening up the contrats to prevent this, lenders control losses. Which means the rest of can borrow money at lower rates than from institutions that don't. Six months is entirely too long to settle a normal engine claim. Either BUS dropped the ball, or you have inadvertantly omitted some facts that would change my opinion. In the first case, write their customer service folks with a clear and objective (read unemotional) statements of the facts. They actually do care (no, I am just a policyholder) and will likely try to make amends or at least remedy the problem that caused the delay. If the latter, at least you weren't trolling. Someone at the Bank was being a jerk. In such cases it is customary for a lender to endorse the check over to the repair facility when you provide a confirmed work order. Next time go over the head of the clerk that made that dumb decision. If it came down from the top, refinance. In today's market the consumer is in control. I suspect that unless you have refinanced recently, you might have gotten a better rate anyway.
I'll share a couple of insights that others may profit from your story. First, part of the hassle is there because too many jerks are not as responsible as you are Rob. Part of it is simply contractual and part is because you didn't have enough experience to make someone behave. The contractual part is your loan and your policy. In your loan you agreed to insure the boat and contract with the insurance company to make the bank an insured under the policy. The policy contract requires the Insurance company to make all insureds payees of claims. That is actually partly for your protection as well. The jerks in this world will take the insurance checks, default on the loan and leave the bank stuck with worthless collateral. By tightening up the contrats to prevent this, lenders control losses. Which means the rest of can borrow money at lower rates than from institutions that don't. Six months is entirely too long to settle a normal engine claim. Either BUS dropped the ball, or you have inadvertantly omitted some facts that would change my opinion. In the first case, write their customer service folks with a clear and objective (read unemotional) statements of the facts. They actually do care (no, I am just a policyholder) and will likely try to make amends or at least remedy the problem that caused the delay. If the latter, at least you weren't trolling. Someone at the Bank was being a jerk. In such cases it is customary for a lender to endorse the check over to the repair facility when you provide a confirmed work order. Next time go over the head of the clerk that made that dumb decision. If it came down from the top, refinance. In today's market the consumer is in control. I suspect that unless you have refinanced recently, you might have gotten a better rate anyway.
Interesting musings Fred...but
I think, a little off target. I note that someone has responded on the insurance issue so I'll have at the economic one (though I will add that if you like the idea of cooperative insurance, buy some stock in your insurer...<grin>). Interestingly enough, the reason that mortgages were virtualy unheard of in Europe is not due to some traditional notions on the virtues of thrift. It simply results from the screwed up legal system of land law there that prevents the easy securitiztion of investment by land. I may be off a little on my next point as my facts are a bit dated and coming from unreliable recollection, but I don't believe home ownership is quite as prevelant in Europe as here. And I believe that it has become very difficult for young people to acquire homes today. We were the premier economic force in the world throughout a large part of the last Century because the opposite is true. The reliable, consistant and easy facility in which we securitize investment with land is what permitted the explosive industrial growth that we enjoyed beginning in the late Nineteenth Century. Our present economic straits derive in large part because we are no longer primarily a producing economy. We import a majority of our goods now and are becoming a service based economy. If one looks a the rise and fall of economic powers in history, one could reasonably infer that we are in decline. The historical model is not ineffable, but it has been pretty consistant. First economies begin by being agriculturaly based, then merchant based, then with increased investment availability they become industrial, then service based then strictly consumption driven and finally bust. And to bring this around to a sailing discussion, I note that we are fortunate in that two of the World's three largest sailboat builders are US companies building their products right here at home. Maybe the traditional values that I see so consistantly held in high esteem by the sailing community, have led to this economic countercurrent. Best regards, Chris
I think, a little off target. I note that someone has responded on the insurance issue so I'll have at the economic one (though I will add that if you like the idea of cooperative insurance, buy some stock in your insurer...<grin>). Interestingly enough, the reason that mortgages were virtualy unheard of in Europe is not due to some traditional notions on the virtues of thrift. It simply results from the screwed up legal system of land law there that prevents the easy securitiztion of investment by land. I may be off a little on my next point as my facts are a bit dated and coming from unreliable recollection, but I don't believe home ownership is quite as prevelant in Europe as here. And I believe that it has become very difficult for young people to acquire homes today. We were the premier economic force in the world throughout a large part of the last Century because the opposite is true. The reliable, consistant and easy facility in which we securitize investment with land is what permitted the explosive industrial growth that we enjoyed beginning in the late Nineteenth Century. Our present economic straits derive in large part because we are no longer primarily a producing economy. We import a majority of our goods now and are becoming a service based economy. If one looks a the rise and fall of economic powers in history, one could reasonably infer that we are in decline. The historical model is not ineffable, but it has been pretty consistant. First economies begin by being agriculturaly based, then merchant based, then with increased investment availability they become industrial, then service based then strictly consumption driven and finally bust. And to bring this around to a sailing discussion, I note that we are fortunate in that two of the World's three largest sailboat builders are US companies building their products right here at home. Maybe the traditional values that I see so consistantly held in high esteem by the sailing community, have led to this economic countercurrent. Best regards, Chris
Chris and Rick, this is sooo much fun.
The U.S. is safe in the short term, as long as people like you are around. Like the kid I saw get off of the school bus yesterday. He dripped brains. But one of the old measures of civilizations health and well being was a society's production of CAST IRON. We are the first culture to break the rule that says the top dog makes the most cast iron. Iron doesn't hold up to silicon and the microprocessor. That's why I talked my mom into buying Microsoft. P.S. and Rick, In good times, corporate American profits average 5%. P.S. II. Chris, we ARE a service economy. 70% last I heard. P.S. III. And Chris, with sailboats as good as they are now, maybe these companies stay in business because of HURRICANES.
The U.S. is safe in the short term, as long as people like you are around.
Like the kid I saw get off of the school bus yesterday. He dripped brains. But one of the old measures of civilizations health and well being was a society's production of CAST IRON. We are the first culture to break the rule that says the top dog makes the most cast iron. Iron doesn't hold up to silicon and the microprocessor. That's why I talked my mom into buying Microsoft. P.S. and Rick, In good times, corporate American profits average 5%. P.S. II. Chris, we ARE a service economy. 70% last I heard. P.S. III. And Chris, with sailboats as good as they are now, maybe these companies stay in business because of HURRICANES. I've been sailing for over 30 yrs and never had any kind of claim with any of the insurers who insured my boats -- until Hurricane Isabel came along and totaled a boat I owned for about 7 weeks.... BoatUS had qualified adjusters (who turned out to be competent surveyors) on the scene a few days later. After getting a number of estimates to repair the boat, Boat US decided to "constructively total" it. I had a check in hand for the full insured amount, plus some additional for personal effects, in less than a month. A number of friends, who had insured with other companies, had a number of horror stories about how difficult it was to get the attention of their insurers. Many of these companies insured boats, but seemed to know little about how to adjust a claim on them. Their primary lines were houses and cars. In the end, I think it important to find out not only what your premium is going to be from the company you get to insure your boat, but also to find out how competently they would deal with a claim, if at all....
as Stu would say, check the archires
this hoss has been beat to death! BTW, Fred, ole Ben didnt come up with insurance. it stemed from the wealthy sitting around coffee shops in London betting on which ships would or would not make it to the new world. Lloyds of London the oldest insurer in the world was formed from these "names".
this hoss has been beat to death! BTW, Fred, ole Ben didnt come up with insurance. it stemed from the wealthy sitting around coffee shops in London betting on which ships would or would not make it to the new world. Lloyds of London the oldest insurer in the world was formed from these "names".
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