Insurance.

tim_klynn · Mar 21, 2011

I've got my Vega insured for $190/yr with Allstate. It is just an agreed value of $7000 max.
I pretty much just have it insured because insurance is required for my slip.
I also just sail on a lake where there isn't a whole lot of risk.

There is a chance of getting demasted in a microburst, but we usually shorten sail when the skies turn black, and the rig is stout, so I'm not worried.

Worst case scenario is that the Vega sinks somewhere in the lake, I would have to get some diver buddies to float it back up and replace electronics, clean out the engine etc.
I am guessing that this would cost me less than $7000.

I also don't have to worry about going hard aground on rocks and then being forced to hire a
expensive salvage company to clear the wreckage.

There are no mega yachts on the lake that I can destroy through my negligence.

So, I would recommend getting sufficient insurance to cover whatever you think it would cost to fix the most likely severe damage for where you sail. Personally, I tend to go light on insurance because I would rather spend money making my boat extremely seaworthy, rather than giving that money to some big schmucky insurance corporation who is most likely going to try to weasel out of paying a claim anyway. -Tim

j.hunter9999 · Mar 21, 2011

Asking a sailor to value their boat is like asking a mother to value her teenager -- they are likely going to overstate the replacement cost. We've done quite a bit of work (sails, rigging, tackle, etc.) We're insured with American Family for what we paid for the boat (the least they would allow in order to get liability), plus liability in case I actually hit something more expensive. We pay about $100 USD per year.

That said, IMHO, boat insurance is riddled with insurance company escape clauses. So I don't actually plan on collecting anything if our Bella decides to visit Davy Jones. In addition, the used boat market is full of decent boats for little money. Check the policies carefully to try to minimize all of the ways the insurance company can weasel out of paying. You may also need an updated survey. It might be better to go with a company that specializes in boats...because they know what the deal is. However, I don't actually have a frame of reference for that.

Best of luck.

Jack
Bella - V2620

dougpol1 · Mar 21, 2011

That is what they consider the fair market value of the boat to be. The
only way they will raise it is to somehow convince them it is worth more
in a sale. That is not much in these times of low house and boat
prices. I doesn't matter how much you have invested. They worry that if
you put the boat up for sale and you are not offered more than fair
value that you might take it out and sink it an collect. They consider
the conditon of the boat and then go by the book price.
They know something you likely don't and that is they are
responsible to other boats for the amount your boat is valued at. If
your boat is worth $17,000 thats the amout they have to pay for the
liability of the boat. They are also taking on liability for you as the
captain and that can be what ever you want to cover you're home and any
other property or what ever you are willing to pay for. They will never
pay more than the value of the boat for it's liability because that's
what the Jones act says they have to pay.
You might get someone that insures cars or airplanes to insure for
more but only because they don't know any better.
Some marinas will not except wooden boats if the value is too low
as the owner can't carry enough insurance to cover his share of the
marinas cost in a fire or sinking.
Doug

brockhaus77 · Mar 21, 2011

I'm using BoatUS for my insurance - the price seems reasonable, but they do require a full survey "on the hard". Maybe if yours is recent, they'll accept it. Prices and availability of insurance depends a lot on how far you plan to venture out.
I don't think they would insure for more than what the survey says is the fair market value. (As others have said before, it's unlikely ANY insurer would). Unfortunately, that's not the value you put in - that's the price they expect the boat to fetch if put up for sale (always much less). My boat of course is in a lot worse shape than yours (apparently) - I only insure it for $6000. On the other hand, LIABILITY (which could be a lot) is independent from the value of your boat (as far as I know). You can even increase your coverage with a "umbrella policy" from your house or car insurer - but those typically require that the first $100,000 or so are covered by a specific boat insurance.

- Sebastian (V1060 VegaLyra)

groundhogyh · Mar 21, 2011

A word about the weasel wording...
If you are concerned, and you should probably be, if you actually want to purchase something of value with ur money.
Get the actual policy. Is it called the "rider"?. The actual words of the policy. It will be very apparent if you are dealing with a weasel.

My experience was that Progressive had a honestly worded policy. The local marine expert insurance co. Had weasel words in each and every paragraph.

I only looked at a few contracts. But that is my experience.
rb

vega1860 · Mar 23, 2011

We have insurance through BoatUS, but only liability for the
marinas. If your insurance company says they will pay $17K I think
that is good.

Even though ours was surveyed with a replacement value of $85K, you
can buy a nice Vega that is fully equipped and cruise ready for
around $12K. Realistically, anything is only worth what someone is
willing to pay for it and a nice Vega is only worth $12K to $15K in
today's market no matter what you may have paid for new sails, engine
or what ever.

Personally, and this just my opinion, I would rather spend the money
on good ground tackle, a case of nice wine or a good foul weather
suit than bet against myself by buying insurance and hoping for a big
payoff from the insurance company. Remember, when you buy insurance
, any kind of insurance, the insurance company is betting on
you. You are betting against yourself. Guess who is winning.

"Fair Winds"

Chuck Rose
SV Lealea, V1860

j.hunter9999 · Mar 23, 2011

I second the idea of spending money on a case of wine. Although an expenditure on a case of wine might make me wish I had made a bigger expenditure on insurance.

Jack
Bella - V2620

n3935j · Mar 23, 2011

I agree! I have insurance, and because I live in America, it's mainly for
liability concerns. I couldn't rent a slip if I didn't have insurance. I'm
pretty much self insured as far as taking care of my boat, but if I screw up and
damage another boat or hurt anyone, I'm glad I have liability coverage. Another
issue that I'm covered for is oil/ fuel spills, When the boys in the Haz Mat
suits come out to clean up a mess- it can be quite an expensive day! Like
everyone else, I don't expect anything to happen, but as we all know- things
happen.________________________________
From: j.hunter9999 j.hunter9999@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 6:49:32 PM
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Insurance.

I second the idea of spending money on a case of wine. Although an expenditure
on a case of wine might make me wish I had made a bigger expenditure on
insurance.

Jack
Bella - V2620

pjacobs55 · Mar 24, 2011

Speaking of liability ...
I often feel concern over the fact that if my fuel tank leaks (Series I Vega with the tank up high) and floods the bilge with Diesel the float switch will come on and merrily pump 33 liters of fuel overboard into the marina. Having seen what a cupful of fuel does in the water, I shudder to think of a whole tank full!

A little research turned up a float switch that is operated by having two electrodes that complete a circuit when immersed in a conductive solution (salt water) but will not activate when submerged in Diesel oil. Water Witch is one of these

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tinyurl.com

and I was wondering if anyone on the list has experience with the product?

The one downside I see is that pure rainwater (does such a thing exist?) will not activate the contacts. But as I have a conventional stuffing box and there's always a dram of salt water in the bilge I don't see this as a problem.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

o2n7dcolin · Mar 24, 2011

Very little contamination of distilled water will cause it to be quite
conductive. Not to worry about that! Colin...

dougpol1 · Mar 24, 2011

I had one, on another boat that I had. Never had any problem with it and
like you, there was always a little saltwater in the builge. Never had
any diesel in there so I can't speak to that. I worked as dock master
a few years and was required to walk the docks twice a day looking for
oil on the water. If the dockmaster is doing what the insurance company
requires, he should catch it before it gets too bad. It is not likely
that the tank will break open and dump a tank full in a twenty four hour
period. In most cases the tanks develop a pin hole. Still its nice to
know your pump wont pump diesel.
Also everyone should know not to put detergent on and oil spill.
The environmental people will eat you alive for that.

Doug

pjacobs55 · Mar 24, 2011

A ruptured supply line will empty the tank pretty quickly, unless you always shut off the valve at the tank when docked. I do, and occasionaly forget to turn it on when I go out. This usually results in a brief "what the heck" moment when the engine starts spluttering, then a mad dash for the valve before the fuel supply dries up!

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'