Try Progressive Insurance. I have been very pleased with their rates and service for over 10 years.
Insurance
- Thread starter Rich (P303)
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I think what you're missing is that the "agreed value" in an agreed value policy is "agreed" by owner and underwriter each year when the policy is renewed. The underwriter is free to refuse coverage if it considers the owner's value proposal too high. There is no "fine print" in the policy allowing the insurer to substitute market value in the event of total loss. That would constitute fraud.
The Actual Cash Value discussions need clarifying. The ACV is what the boat was worth one second before the loss. Value is determined by the Market for used boats. I strongly recommend a periodic Marine Survey as well as copious photos and videos, both inside and out, plus a list of goodies. Is this just Hull insurance? Side note; a friend had her Beneteau destroyed and based on ACV valuation, she was able to buy a bigger better Beneteau!
Thanks so much for the incite from you all! I have until August until its time for renewal. I will certainly explore other options and different carriers (as well as my Independent Insurance Agency). I will definitely have more options this time around (as not a newbie commanding a deadly weapon).
Insurance Values
Oh aren't Insurance companies wonderful ! Two things I could recommend. A. Look up your boat values on the NADA Book Values site. That's what the banks go by when you apply for a loan. If its good enough for the banks, it should be good enough for the insurance company, or your lawyer to fight the insurance company. I keep up to date quotes on all my cars and boat. And B. Find another insurance company ! I pulled all of my policies away for State Farm, a few years ago, because they weren't treating me right. We've lost a lot in this country, over the past few years, but we still have the freedom of choice ............ you don't have to take that. Hope this helps ! R.Burns
Oh aren't Insurance companies wonderful ! Two things I could recommend. A. Look up your boat values on the NADA Book Values site. That's what the banks go by when you apply for a loan. If its good enough for the banks, it should be good enough for the insurance company, or your lawyer to fight the insurance company. I keep up to date quotes on all my cars and boat. And B. Find another insurance company ! I pulled all of my policies away for State Farm, a few years ago, because they weren't treating me right. We've lost a lot in this country, over the past few years, but we still have the freedom of choice ............ you don't have to take that. Hope this helps ! R.Burns
Even as you spend money to keep a boat shipshape, its value will DROP as a function of time. They all do, no boat is immune. Houses are different, they typically appreciate.
Apparently Boat US places a $0 value on a 1972 O'Day 22......... They wouldn't even give me a number when I asked for a quote while renewing the liability policy. So, the new furler, the sound system, the outboard, the new knotmeter, seems to be worth anything to them. Very clear proof that all insurance is as RIPOFF! Our homeowners just jumped from $1,200 to over $1,900. No claims, no hurricanes, no tornados, no forest fires, and ridiculously low crime rate in Northern Michigan..... Maybe they thought I wanted Health Insurance?????
It's the market
Sailboat values have plummeted. The appraisal probably reflects that. As noted, the market value is what someone is willing to pay for the boat, not how much money you have in it.
In over 40 years of sailing, I have had only one insurance claim -- for a boat totaled in a hurricane. The insurance company -- Boat US -- paid me the "agreed value" without question or hesitation. I think the "market value" of the boat would have been less had I decided to sell it (before the storm, of course...).
Insurance decrease
Call your agent and tell them you want "stated value" or "agreed value" coverage on the boat for $30,000. Your premium may go up a little, but they can never B.S. you about what they'll pay if the boat is destroyed. They have to pay you 430,ooo because that's what you paid for.
Another "worth" survey for this company?
But also keep in mind the bottom fell out of the boating market over the past few years, and I have seen some very nice boats being sold far below their "actual" worth . Of course, that is an oxymoron. I learned the hard way selling into the Antique market that any item is worth what a willing buyer will pay.
What ticked me off is that I berth my sailboat in a Hurricane hole, further protected by a Hurricane Barrier and gate, which closes if the surge tide is expected to rise over some few feet or if the wind reaches 50 kts. My payment went up so the insurer could recoup some of their losses.
Robert
I think if it were me, I'd get another networth survey, and submit the results to the Insurance Company. I can't say for all surveyors, but mine charged much less for the estimated market value.
But also keep in mind the bottom fell out of the boating market over the past few years, and I have seen some very nice boats being sold far below their "actual" worth . Of course, that is an oxymoron. I learned the hard way selling into the Antique market that any item is worth what a willing buyer will pay.
What ticked me off is that I berth my sailboat in a Hurricane hole, further protected by a Hurricane Barrier and gate, which closes if the surge tide is expected to rise over some few feet or if the wind reaches 50 kts. My payment went up so the insurer could recoup some of their losses.
Robert
Based on my experience (sailboat owner (always insured) since 1979 and as a marine surveyor since 1994, suggest the following:
Ask the insurance co. for the source of their valuation (BUC Research / ABOS / NADA) and how they the calculated that reduced value.
(Basic value ranges based on vessel with original engine and assumes original equipment (not new but all in good order) typical for vessel age & type.
Valuation ranges increase based on better cosmetic condition; newer
& more equipment. NOTE: BUC and other values typically can be greater than listed for sale prices of a any particular year make model boat.
If the insurance co listed new value is within the range of any of the value guides that may be it; unless the vessel is in above average condition with new gear / upgrades etc. It probably would require a marine survey (with research to substantiate the estimated value) to gain a higher insured value. A conversation, providing boat make-year-model-size and equipment list, with a surveyor should give a good idea as what the current (and reasonable) value.
Frank A (Long Island NY)
NADA Guide
Without much trouble, I checked the NADA Guide for 30-year old Pearson 303 and just the boat (not including other stuff) came out to only $14,300.
Without much trouble, I checked the NADA Guide for 30-year old Pearson 303 and just the boat (not including other stuff) came out to only $14,300.
Don,
This sound very much like 'Stated Value' insurance. It's an insurance company way of limiting the MAX they would ever pay; typically if the loss happened the day of the policy taking effect!
Like others have said, my Agreed Value insurance policy is VERY clear on what and how it will pay. The agreed value is just that. Agreed. I cannot unilaterally tell them how much the boat is worth. They have to agree. And that value comes up for review every policy term.
Valuations, Premiums, et al
Valuation is Make, Condition, Age and demand. I don't care how many little bells and whistles you've bought, even adding a mink coat for it won't increase the value.
Insurance Premiums are only partly influenced by Valuation. The regulatory environment has a ton to do with it. When Garamendi forced Homeowner Ins. Cos. to pay pay way more than the homeowner ever paid premiums for, Calif. Premiums had to skyrocket to offset the craziness of CA politicians. When I moved to Nevada, because the laws and regulators are fair, my Homeowners premium was cut by 70%! Same insurance co., same valuation, basically same HO3 policy. What changed? getting away from crazy Calif.
Valuation is Make, Condition, Age and demand. I don't care how many little bells and whistles you've bought, even adding a mink coat for it won't increase the value.
Yep, life is miserable out here. Good thing you left before the state disintegrated..... BTW, how's your AC bill?
Insurance update... My Insurance dude has been in touch with the company underwriting the policy. They have agreed to revisit the insurable value... and want to see proof of any upgrades with photos. There could be hope.
Thanks again for your insight, Rich.
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