Insurance

[RichardSprince]

In the process of purchasing a 22 ft. Racer/daysailer. Insurance is cheap enough, property and $100k liability under $700 for the year.
I live in the Miami area, and have considered doing the occasional charter to help support my hobby. Will I need separate commercial liability insurance? Is this much more expensive than individual liability coverage?
I do consulting, some years back I had liability insurance up to $1 million for under $250 for the year.

 

[dlochner]

In the process of purchasing a 22 ft. Racer/daysailer. Insurance is cheap enough, property and $100k liability under $700 for the year.
I live in the Miami area, and have considered doing the occasional charter to help support my hobby. Will I need separate commercial liability insurance? Is this much more expensive than individual liability coverage?
I do consulting, some years back I had liability insurance up to $1 million for under $250 for the year.

By chartering do you mean renting out your sailboat as a bareboat? Or you taking people out sailing? Different issues.

If money is exchanged, it is a business and the insurance company will have some questions about who is sailing the boat as it will increase their risk. If you are taking people out sailing and charging them, then you need a USCG Captain's License and the insurance company will want to know as it will increase their risk.

 

[JoeWhite]

Most homeowners insurance will cover boats up to 26 feet automatically with no addition charge
You may not need separate insurance for the boat. If you own a house contact your insurance agent.
Since you mentioned "chartering to help pay for your hobby", this means you are considering taking others out and getting paid for it. Your liability is huge now incase someone falls over or breaks a finger. You need capitan's license and insurance as mentioned above.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Charter a 22ft boat?

 

[stickinthemud57]

This is a topic I intend to follow as it is something I have considered doing to keep me busy in retirement. There are several boats at my marina that rent themselves out for one reason or another, so obviously there are people who don't own a boat who would like to go for a sail.

I'm going to throw out some guesses based on what I see going on at Lake Grapevine, my home port. It would be great to hear from those with experience.

The people who are definitely raking it in are the "Party Boat" charters. Big double-deck houseboats with slides, obnoxiously loud sound systems, and all the comforts of shore. Ugh.

Of course, power boat rentals are popular, but pretty expensive.

I know a guy at my marina who charters his 36-footer for wedding photos, day sails, and the occasional overnighter. He provides what I would call the "Street Clothes" cruise - enjoying wine and cheese while drifting along peacefully with a skipper fully in charge and their needs catered to. I would think that this would call for a 32-foot or larger craft.

Then there are the "Sail Clubs". Although these are not technically "charters", there are several boats at my marina owned by the American Airlines Sailing Club, which makes it possible for people to get access to a boat to sail without the burdens of ownership. The Grapevine Sailing Club has a "Sail Away" program which is similar. Sailing proficiency is a requirement, so it's not something someone who walks in off the street can participate in.

Next, there's the "Sport Sail", for lack of a better term. I'm thinking boats under 32 feet, where passengers would be more actively engaged (i.e. as ballast), and drinks or snacks would have to wait until the boat is at anchor. I honestly don't see much of a market for this. Sail clubs, or just making friends with someone who has a sailboat and would like to have some company, would likely satisfy this need.

OTHOH, if like the OP, you are in a tourist mecca, it's possible that there would be those interested in just that sort of experience, but finding them (or them finding you) becomes the challenge. Partnering with local hotels, Air BNB's, Vrbo's, etc. might be a way to find customers. You would be able to price yourself below the Street Clothes cruisers, targeting a more adventuresome crowd.

As mentioned earlier, insurance and licensing will play into the "is it worth the expense and trouble" calculation.

Looking forward to hearing other's experience and thoughts...

 

[LloydB]

I'm thinking that consulting would vary in cost depending upon your commercial specialty and its affect on personal safety. As a 'hobby' really doesn't work if you put a price on it because any insurance company is going to have to insure it as a business. Maybe Ubersail??

 

[RichardSprince]

Thanks for the replies. The idea was to take people out, not rent them my boat. There seems to be quite a vigorous party boat scene around here, I thought maybe taking people out for a sail could be an alternative experience.

I kept researching and, contrary to what my sailing instructor said, I saw that if people pay you to go on your boat, you need a captain's license. A "six pack" license would work, for six or less passengers.

 

[RichardSprince]

Next, there's the "Sport Sail", for lack of a better term. I'm thinking boats under 32 feet, where passengers would be more actively engaged (i.e. as ballast), and drinks or snacks would have to wait until the boat is at anchor. I honestly don't see much of a market for this. Sail clubs, or just making friends with someone who has a sailboat and would like to have some company, would likely satisfy this need.

If you took people out and called it "Sport Sail", intro to sailing, whatever, is that different than taking them out as passengers? Do you still need the captain's license?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I kept researching and, contrary to what my sailing instructor said, I saw that if people pay you to go on your boat, you need a captain's license. A "six pack" license would work, for six or less passengers.

you might want to find a more knowledgeable sailing instructor.

If this person doesn’t know even this basic requirement, it begs the question whether he should be marketing himself as such.

 

[stickinthemud57]

If you took people out and called it "Sport Sail", intro to sailing, whatever, is that different than taking them out as passengers? Do you still need the captain's license?

It would not matter what you called it. Any time you take on passengers you take on liability. If you are doing it for hire, there are laws that govern such activity. In an attempt to protect the public against unqualified, unscrupulous, or incompetent providers, the authorities having jurisdiction are no doubt going to require licensing and levels of insurance beyond that that a hobbyist would pay.

This would be for your protection as well, per the aforementioned clumsy passenger who decides to sue you.

 

[RichardSprince]

It would not matter what you called it. Any time you take on passengers you take on liability. If you are doing it for hire, there are laws that govern such activity. In an attempt to protect the public against unqualified, unscrupulous, or incompetent providers, the authorities having jurisdiction are no doubt going to require licensing and levels of insurance beyond that that a hobbyist would pay.

This would be for your protection as well, per the aforementioned clumsy passenger who decides to sue you.

Sure, totally makes sense. The insurance part is obvious, I was a bit unsure about the license part. I realize that whatever you call it, if you take passengers out on your boat and they pay you, you need a captain's license. The "six pack" license lets you take up to six passengers at a time (on an uninspected vessel). 360 days of logged sailing and passing the exam are the qualifications. I got some more sailing to do!

Thanks for all the replies!