insurance question

[Bob 04 H260]

If a boat yard supplies a contractor to do work on your boat (boat yard bills you for the work) and the contractor damages your boat who pays for the repair ? your insurance ? boat yard insurance ? or contractors insurance ?

Does your boat insurance normally cover damage to the boat if it occurs while in storage at a boat yard ? or is this covered by the boat yard as it is in their care ?

Bob

 

[quadrille38]

I'd think if you'd contracted for work that the yard and the contractor are responsible. Your leverage is with the yard as your contract is with them. The split between the yard and the contractor is up to them to figure out.

Regarding storage coverage that is most likely on your insurance but could depend on how the damage occurred. For example if it was due to improper placement of jack stands and the yard did it they should be responsible. However if its your cradle and they placed the boat you might have some responsibility. Many people neglect cradle maintainence because it's out of sight out of mind.

Check your yard contract. They are usually very explicit on stating requirements

 

[Rick D]

As a General Rule...

...Your hull coverage is always available to you. Your insurer will go after the yard/contractor for whatever they paid out on your behalf. Usually best to use your own coverage than try to go through the yard for many reasons.

 

[morrisn1]

...Your hull coverage is always available to you. Your insurer will go after the yard/contractor for whatever they paid out on your behalf. Usually best to use your own coverage than try to go through the yard for many reasons.

Of course, if you use your own coverage as the primary insurance, you will be out your deductible, at least until your insurance company recovers the money they spent on your behalf. As he said, if it is not clear who's coverage is primary, then turn it in and let the companies fight it out. Sounds like there could be three involved.

 

[morrisn1]

...Your hull coverage is always available to you. Your insurer will go after the yard/contractor for whatever they paid out on your behalf. Usually best to use your own coverage than try to go through the yard for many reasons.

Of course, if you use your own coverage as the primary insurance, you will be out your deductible, at least until your insurance company recovers the money they spent on your behalf. As he said, if it is not clear who's coverage is primary, then turn it in and let the companies fight it out. Sounds like there could be three involved.

 

[Scott B]

How severe is the damage. Couple thousand and the yard / contractor should just do the repair. More severe then contact your insurance, they will advise you how to proceed or will have the repairs done then go after the yard / contractor insurance.

 

[Bob 04 H260]

Thanks for the advice, I will let you know how it turns out, Bob

 

[morrisn1]

Thanks for the advice, I will let you know how it turns out, Bob

Bob, really enjoying the pics of your 356. We just bought one last month. Like to compare notes sometime.
Noel

 

[wufibugs]

Not so sure about Canadian law, but your recourse is against the yard. You have no direct contract with the person or company that did the work, so they have not violated any promises or obligations to you. If the yard refuses to have the contractor or someone else repair the damage, I would sue them in a local court and let them in turn sue the contractor before I made a claim against my insurer. Why get stuck with the deductible and higher rates when you are not at fault? The yard is much more likely to be solvent and able to pay a judgment than the contractor who may or may not have a license and a bond.
Make sure you take pictures of the damage as soon as possible. You should also get your own outside estimate of the cost of repairs so that if they refuse to make repairs, you recover enough money to get them done or to pay your deductible. You should also find out if your insurance company will raise your rates if you make a claim. This too may be recoverable if the yard does not repair the damage.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Bob;

Prior to being a boat dealer, I was an adjuster.

The boat yard who billed you is considered the general contractor who outsourced the work to a subcontractor to do the work but billed you direct. Generally, most competent yards and marinas will require subcontractors to generally carry a comprehensive policy to include coverage for damages with a minimum of one million. Therefore, I would suggest filing with the subcontractor copying the boat yard as you are placing them on notice too. If the subcontractor does not have insurance, then the boat yard in that case would be liable as they are considered the general contractor in the first place.

If all else fails, then file with your insurance carrier. Generally coverage issues from Canada what I have heard in the past pretty much follow the same as in the U.S..

 

[Rick D]

Here are a couple of things to consider before you elect to go directly against the boat yard/subcontractor:


1. You are still contractually required to report the loss to your insurance carrier. While rarely enforced, they could try to void the coverage if you do not.


2. The insurance for the yard and/or subcontractor probably has an exclusion for damage caused by their professional action. In other words, a painter would likely have no coverage available to him for a failed paint job. (If, on the other hand, he tripped and spilled five gallons of paint into the bilge, that would likely be covered.)


3. The yard probably has a sizable liability deductible. The impact of that is that they will have a lot of control over pay/no pay/how much decisions.


4. If things go poorly with the repair, you will have little recourse except what public pressure you can apply or a civil lawsuit. On the other hand, you will likely have your insurer to help resolve issues if you use them for the claim.

So, it is all about your appetite for patience and risk. Quite frankly, while I might consider going directly against the yard, I would only do so if the damage was relatively minor and if I had a no-brainer case against the yard that was fully documented. Good luck and let us know how it gets resolved.

 

[wufibugs]

Rare that I disagree with Rick, but have to here. Like the yard's subcontractor, you have no direct claim against the yard's carrier nor are you bound by any exclusions that policy may contain. We have not seen the contract, if any, that you signed with the yard, and those things vary from nothing, a scrap of paper to an indecipherable 10 page tome. That said, most judges are trying to figure out what you thought you paid for, and what reasonable expectations you had a right to regarding the work. When dealing with the public, a yard that contracts to paint your boat and ends up punching a hole in the hull is hardly going to get away with pointing the judge to a clause saying neither they nor their subs are responsible for "professional negligence" any more than will a used car dealer who misrepresents the condition of a car and then points to the "as is" clause. Assuming the screw up is demonstrable and you can prove they or their subs did it, the real battle will be between them. You should get what your bargained for or the money necessary to accomplish it.
It is indeed true, as Rick says, that all our policies, auto home and boat, require us to report losses promptly. However, the company can generally only avoid liability if they can show the delay somehow prejudiced their ability to mitigate their payout. Insurance companies are largely disinterested in your claims; just your premiums.

 

[Steve Dion]

I would have to agree with Rick's original statement. File the claim with your own insurance company and let them sort out who is responsible.

If/when it goes to court the guy with the deepest pockets usually ends up getting stuck with the bill.

I would guess that you burn up a lot of money getting an attorney to file claims at the yard and the potential subs. If this happens, guess who wins (same guys that always win, the attorneys).

 

[glonek5]

The insurance carrier ultimately would rather stay out of the claim if possible in this case since it costs them nothing.
In regards to who would potentially pay, first you hired the yard so that is who you go to. Who they hire is up to them and they are also responsible. Assuming that both the yard and subcontractor have general liability insurance I would approach the yard first. General liability coverage responds to bodily injury or property damage caused by or during their operations. That is where coverage comes into play.
You can always file under yours and hope they subrogate (go back after them for pay back) but you can't be certain and yes it will be a claim against you and your policy. Hopefully the harbor will man up and fix it making all of this unnecessary.

 

[wufibugs]

Just a note on Steve's comment. It is true that for larger but not gigantic claims, attorneys fees and court delays can eat up the value of the case and the will to fight. Here, most states have the equivalent of California's small claims division. Lawyers may not appear and you can sue for up $10,000. Cases get to Court in 4-6 weeks and you go head to head with whomever you sue. There are no formal rules about evidence. Like Judge Judy, but sans the rudeness.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Nearly all courts have small claims courts where you can file yourself. IF you win, court costs are included with that judgement. As a dealer, I had a client after 3 1/2 years of owning the boat actually filed for bad bottom painting against my dealership. The boat was in salt water which he brought up in small claims court. The case was dismissed as the owner never really maintained his boat plus the fact he was advised on an annual inspection of the hull by me. Further, the paint companies only warrant their product for one year. What helped me was photos of the exterior condition of his boat from shore and it was a mess.

When you go into claims courts, forget the hearsay and compassionate pleas to a judge. He wants to see the facts and figures. Preperation is the best advice. Photos, initial repair bill, photos of the repairs for failed work and the additional cost to fix that. Forget anything for your time and gas. Be specific and straight to the point and do not interrupt the other party as a judge then will tend to question your claim. In the 30 plus years, I had three claims one which I filed. On the one I filed, the accusations were false. A good example, the client advised he had contacted me several months prior to repair his boat. I always required authorization as a dealer to have permission to board the boat to do repairs. It was sad that the repairs were made within one week as the boat was offsite from the date of that authorization to repair the boat. The judge referenced the authenticity of that authorization.

What I am getting at, document, have photos, stay brief and to the point with no hearsay will go a long way with a judge in small claims court. I forgot to advise that the judge admonished the other party as there were other things that did not add up to his claim.

dave condon