Insurance coverage concerning damage

[Bad Obsession]

During the windstorm the other week my neighbor's boat broke a line, due to it chaffing against the dock, and his boat drifted over into my slip. His boat (a Bayliner 28 cabin cruiser) struck my boat. It messed up my vinal rub rail, bent the metal track, and put some nicks in the gel coat.My neighbor filed a claim with Boat US and I just talked to the adjuster. The adjuster advised me that they may or may not fix my boat depending on the adjuster says when he looks at the damage on the boats. He advised me that I may need to file a claim against my insurance company (which happens to be Boat US)to fix the damages to my boat. I am not interested in filing a claim on my insurnace for someone else's boat coming loose and hitting my boat. Even though the guy was not present when his boat came loose he is still civilly liable for the actions of his boat. It is his duty to ensure that his boat stays in its slip and it doesn't come loose and damage other people's property. How can they say that my neighbor's insurance won't cover the damage to my boat?! His boat crossed into my slip (by more than a few feet because my boat has a lot of room in my wide slip), and it had to saw through 60 feet of 3/8 stay set X rope to hit my boat!What would you do in this situation?

 

[Warren Milberg]

The first thing

... I would do is for you to discuss this incident with your own point of contact at Boat US insurance. This is not the same thing as filing a claim, but you do need to report the incident to them. It would be hard to imagine that Boat US will not resolve this incident to your satisfaction. At this point, it sounds like you are getting a lot of "he said/she said" pseudo-advice. Talk to your own agent, hear what he has to to say about how to go forward, and then decide what is in your best interests.

 

[Rick D]

Go Through Your Own Insurance

The liability isn't as settled as you'd like it to be. There is still investigation to be done. Simply because the boat came loose from it's slip is not sufficient for a liability determination. There's a lot more to it for which this isn't the forum. However, if you file a claim on your own policy, it will get the ball moving on repairs to your boat. You will be out your deductible, but if the adjuster makes a favorable liability call as to your damage, you will get it back. If not, you can always file in small claims vs. the boat owner for the deductible. Or, you can wait to see what the liability decision is, and if it isn't favorable, get an attorney and file against him, assuming the damage exceeds the small-claim limit. IMHO, I think you'd be better off going through your own insurance and getting this moving. Sorry about your damage, and good luck whatever you decide. Rick D.

 

[Bob F]

Act of God.........

I am in the P&C insurance business. What is probably going on here is that if your neighbor had his boat properly secured, then he is not liable. The actual cause of the loss was the storm (act of God). And your neighbor is not liable for the storm. On the other hand if you had notified your neighbor that his boat was not properly secured, and you had concerns with the approaching storm, and your neighbor did nothing about it, then yes he'd be liable.Another common example is if your house neighbors tree gets blown over in a strom and smashes your car, your neighbor is not liable. Again the cause of the loss was not your neighbors negligence, but an act of God.BUT before you call in your insurance, you might want to get an estimate and if its not much higher than our deductible, consider paying it out of pocket. Losses may increase your premium. If your have a good relationship with your insurance broker you should be able to discuss off the record.Good luck. Bob

 

[Don s/v Tellico]

Also remember

the adjuster assigned to the neighbor's boat is evaluated by how his claim finally totals out. He's probably not tasked with viewing this from the broader BoatUS perspective that would seem logical. His job is probably to get a clean fix and get out. And, if not, he's not going to get paid any more for more work.I understand fully your reluctance to file a claim and unfor it counts against you in the end, no matter how it comes out. *****But, swallow your disgust with the system and make a report ASAP. I just helped a friend out of a similar mess with an auto claim.

 

[capri 22 809]

Sorry for your damage

Insurance companys like to take your money but do not like to pay it back out.

 

[Daryl]

Common Practice

You get to have a claim against your own insurance and have the pleasure of paying the deductable. It's all about the $$$$

 

[John Nantz]

Act of Stupidity....

What Bob said about acts of god is correct, especially with regard to the example about a tree. However, storms happen all the time - that's typical with weather. Not tying one's boat up so it can survive a storm without coming loose during a storm, in my opinion, is an act of stupidity. Tree roots and soil, on the other hand, you really have no control over but the boat owner has a lot of control over how his boat is secured.Check if there are marina rules about boat owner preparation prior to a storm. Check any boating reference books like Chapman's for proper dock line type, size, and securing methods for the conditions to be expected (I just checked my Chapman and their info on this topic wasn't as good as I would have expected). Not all lines have the same strength or wear resistance and how they are tied up can be a factor. Any investigative I remember one guy that used closeline to tie up his 6-meter! Needless to say it didn't hold up either.Also, what you described is just the visible damage - that which is on the surface. There may be damage below the gel coat in the form of delamination that may not be visible. A surveyor might be helpful here both in scoping the damage and providing a scope for repair, including the gel or epoxy coat finish, etc. If stanchions were pushed in the screws may need re-bedding. If the boat had alot of canvas that created windage that could be a factor requiring larger mooring lines. Is it customary to use snubbers there?Lessons learned: I was at a destination marina one day when a power boat came in and wanted to take the slip next to me but it was blowing fairly good. His friends who were all around me came over to help him dock but even after trying several times he just couldn't make it. On the last try he broadsided my stern. My swept-back transom got the side of his hull about 8 inches above his waterline and we heard a loud sound like glass breaking and I'm sure that's what it was - the fiberglass laminations in his hull. There was no visible damage of any kind on the outside, such as a gel coat scratch, but I can only imagine what the inside of the hull must be like.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Not necessarily

be careful of analogies which are not valid comparisons. In the tree example, which someone previously indicated would not be compensable, I can tell you from personal experience is not true. We had a neighbor's tree fall (due to a storm) damaging our property and we were immediately compensated by the owner's underwriter. I don't plan on returning the money...

 

[John Nantz]

Designated Hazard Tree

Don - It's my understanding that in order to claim damage from a fallen tree is not an Act of God it would have to have been designated, and I think documented, a "hazard tree" by a licensed arborist, and I think the owner, probably legally, notified as such. We have LOTS of trees around here (getting to be fewer, though, because of development, a.k.a., "progress"), and that seems to be the general opinion. Disclaimer: I'm not a Lawyer.

 

[Bad Obsession]

We have the same insurance

The owner of the other boat and my insuracne is Boat U.S. I refuse to file a claim against my insurance. This was not an out of the ordinary storm in my area and we get wind all of the time. There was no chaffing protection on the other subject's boat lines, either.The surveyer from Boat U.S. has been out to my boat. He said that he will try to get Boat U.S. to cover the damages to my boat because he felt that the other boat wasn't secured as good as it should have been. There were some other issues that he noted. This is the surveyer hired by Boat U.S. so I think that this may be a mute point.In saying this, If Boat U.S. refuses to cover my damages there will be a law suit. I deal with civil liability all of the time because of my job (I am a traffic crash reconstructionist for a Police Department). I also have use to some pretty cool technologies. I will be able to subpeona the subject who works at my marina who had to re-ie the neighbor's boat as a witness to the fact the boat was into my slip. I will then be able to have them testify that my neighbor's boat was the only boat that came loose during the weather. After that I will go in and do a scaled diagram of the scene showing the amount of distance that the neighbor's boat had to go to hit my boat (around three feet into my slip). I wil then take this diagram, recreate it into 3D, and animate it for court purposes. I will subpeona the surveyer, from Boat U.S., who felt that the neighbor could have done a better job securing the boat. The good thing about civil court is that the case is decided on a preponderance of the evidence (the best case wins). I don't think that they will be able to use the act of God defence if the neighbor's boat is the only boat that came loose. Then they will see the extent into which my slip was evaded by the neighbor's boat. I will win. Most insurance companies don't want to have to go into court. Especially when they are dealing with a case that they may loose. It is far more expensive for them to go to court then it is to settle.

 

[Bob F]

Lawsuits

again, your only defense may be to show the other boatowner was negligent and did not properly secure his boat. I laugh at the previous post regarding stupid claims. I've always wondered when the "stupidity exclusion" was going to be introduced by insurance companies.Regarding lawsuits, if the insurance carrier does not agree with your defense, then they are denying the claim based on the policy contract. They will not "make an exception" since it sets a precedent. Insurance carries are not intimidated by lawsuits. They will spend big $$ to defend their policy contract. And remember they have REALLY deep pockets. Your best bet is to sit down with a claims supervisor and plead your case with your 8x10 glossys. It may also be a situation that Boat US does not have their own "in house" claims reps. They may use an outside independant firm that just relays the claim facts and recommendations to Boat US. So get ahold of the supervisor at Boat US, and ask to be heard. Threatening a lawsuit probably means nothing, they get those every day.Good luck. Bob

 

[Seattle Scott]

Here's my prediction

Coverage on the boat that broke away will pay "Bad Obsessions" cost of repair because the cleats that the other boat was tied to are still there.

 

[Don s/v Tellico]

So you're gonna sue your own ins company

to which you did not bother to make a claim or otherwise report the damage. Be sure to review your own policy to see that your failure (ok, refusal) to report the damage does not violate any of the provisions.Let us know how this turns out.

 

[Bad Obsession]

Insurnance Company knows

I share the same insurance with the other boat.....thus when we reported the claim to them on his insurance they were advised of my damage. They are well aware. I think that is some of the stink that is going on (they are trying to save themselves at least the cost of my deductable).