Insurance Agreed or ????

Steve Dion · May 12, 2011

I think that "Blue Book" is also referred to as replacment cost. This is the typical policy that you get from an auto insurance company. Agreed upon value will guarantee a price. There is normally a deductible that will be deducted from that price too.

Have you checked out BoatUS?

Winkfish · May 12, 2011

rhythmsurfer said:
Also, what is a good site to find the blue book value. Barnes and Noble did not have any literature of the sort.

Try this site.

http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats

mcrow33 · May 12, 2011

I just had to buy full insurance for my 1977 Endeavour. I went with the agreed price, not Blue Book. I was able to get a lower deductible and rate. The price for total replacement is stated up front. The aggreed price was higher than the purchased price. I also believe the way is was explained to me was that with the Blue Book method, the Blue Book price is depreciated over time. You can find the NADA books online. There is one just for boats.

Joe · May 12, 2011

I don't know anyone who uses "bluebook" boat value. Boats aren't like cars... the used boat market is no way like the used car market. If you buy a used boat you should insure it enough to at least cover your investment. If you make major improvements, upgrades or refits... you should adjust your insurance policy per se.

I have always used BoatUS.... with a stated value. A few years back I upped the value after purchasing new sails, motor etc.

Steve Dion · May 12, 2011

Joe:

Believe me there is a difference and if you are insured with a insurer that is giving you replacement cost, you will probably get screwed. Total losses with a sailboat are not that common, but you may ask some of the folks down in the SE USofA that were insured with companies like Allstate, State Farm etc.

BoatUS has a very good reputation. We have $80,000 in coverage (agreed upon value) for about $580/yr.

....and yes you can buy a 36 ft sailboat for $20k, but what is it going to be (a fixer upper?)

Rick D · May 12, 2011

OK, So Here's The Deal...

You can have valuation based upon ACV or Stated Value. ACV means "Actual Cash Value". ACV is determined at the time of loss and means what it would cost to replace your vessel with something comparable. By comparable, the same model, similar equipment or allowance for it, similar condition. It usually does not mean a value based upon distress sale, although that may not have much meaning in this economy. Nor does it mean the exact same thing. And, the insurer usually reserves the right to replace your boat at their option. So, not a lot of risk to you if you think about it.

Stated Value means you and the insurer agree up front, at the time of policy issuance what the value of the boat is in the event of a total loss. So, if you dump a ton of money into your boat and don't update the value, you lose. On the other hand, they want to be sure you don't value it so high as to tempt you to make it disappear

My take on it is that ACV, while perfectly reasonable, can be a PITA in practice for something like some aircraft, yachts, classic cars, firearms, antiques and jewelry. The reason is you sometimes have inexperienced people adjusting claims on things for which they have no clue and don't take the time to research the valuation which can take a lot of effort. Therefore, my preference is stated value for non-commodity properties.

kappykaplan · May 12, 2011

When I insured my boat through USAA, they gave me two choices: Progressive or Markel America. Both policies were for the purchase value of the boat, but Markel had the better value for the policy. It's currently running me just over $600/year.

kenn · May 12, 2011

rhythmsurfer said:
The USAA people, who now deal you to Progressive, said there are two ways to have full coverage on our 1981 Hunter. If the boat is ever totaled they can cut us a check based on the "blue book" value OR they can cut us a check for an agreed amount.

You have to be realistic about:

The likelihood that your boat will be totalled
Your financial ability to get back into boating should your boat be 'totalled'

If the boat represents a significant part of your assets and you'd need the full payout to get back in at the same level, then you probably should go for agreed amount and pay the higher premium.

If however you think the chances of being 'totalled' are slim, or you are wealthy enough to be able to get back into boating even if you only got "book" value, then you can do whatever you want.

From your question, I suspect that you need insurance more than a richer person would, to protect your investment. Hence, the higher cost.

Do alot of shopping around for insurance. When we insured our small boat, the highest quote was 3x the lowest quote!

MitchM · May 12, 2011

read the policy before you agree to the coverage. one major insurer, Erie, had limited its marine coverage to 'waterborne collisions only.' when a friend's boat fell off its jackstands in a 70 mph wind, they denied all coverage--as he was not 'on the water' when his boat hit the ground. i switched my policy to boatUS after getting quotes from 6 other companies including CNA Chubb and progressive. have been with boatUS for 20 years now...

BobM · May 12, 2011

How the heck...

Steve Dion said:
Joe:

Believe me there is a difference and if you are insured with a insurer that is giving you replacement cost, you will probably get screwed. Total losses with a sailboat are not that common, but you may ask some of the folks down in the SE USofA that were insured with companies like Allstate, State Farm etc.

BoatUS has a very good reputation. We have $80,000 in coverage (agreed upon value) for about $580/yr.

....and yes you can buy a 36 ft sailboat for $20k, but what is it going to be (a fixer upper?)

...do you have 80K for $600 when they are hitting me $1200 for $20K in Boston?

Steve Dion · May 12, 2011

Bob:

It is location, location, location!

Not too many hurricanes or nor-easters in the California delta & SF Bay.

Ray Bowles · May 12, 2011

When we were living aboard our 1990 Island Packet 38 starting in 2000 until 2003 and were in the Gulf, Keys and up the east coast we had policy for an agreed amount. This was the best way for us and also the cheapest. Book value wouldn't come close to the actual value of the boat.
After returning home we sail a trailer sailer and again used an agreed value. We did have a wreck with the boat on the trailer behind the truck and the boat was very close to a total loss. The adjuster used the actual blue book and then figured in the value for every additional item mounted to the boat.. The resulting value was within $100 (lower) than the agreed upon value. The trailer was also an agreed value and the cost of repairing it was slightly greater than the agreed value so they paid the agreed value.
I repaired both and did much of the labor myself so I came out ahead. They then re-insured the boat and she is still sailing. Neither has a totalled or reconstructed title which was great.
Ray

HukilauMike · May 13, 2011

My policy (AMICA insurance), is really an ACV policy. The premiums are less than when I had an agreed to value policy with Progressive. however, every year, AMICA adjusts the ACV (which is listed in the policy) downward, presumably because my boat is worth less every year. Every year, I call them up and ask them why they do that, as my boat is over thirty years old must be fully depreciated by now. And up until last year, they would agree and keep the policy value level with the prior year. Last year, they insisted on dropping the payout by a couple of hundred dollars. I didn't fight them too much, as I really don't keep the insurance to protect against damage to my boat; its really for damage I cause to other people and property.

Big Windy · May 13, 2011

USAA sent me to Progressive as well. I did purchase a policy, but will cancel it at renewal. Before using them, google or bing their chairman of the board...Peter Lewis. I refuse to give one cent to him or his ilk.

kenn · May 13, 2011

Big Windy said:
USAA sent me to Progressive as well. I did purchase a policy, but will cancel it at renewal. Before using them, google or bing their chairman of the board...Peter Lewis. I refuse to give one cent to him or his ilk.

He's was CEO pf Progressive from 1965 -2000, built shareholder value,shepherded the company through steady growth, and helped establish Progressive as a continuous innovator.

Oh, and he's a noted philanthropist, backs the ACLU and promotes the medical use of marijuana.

What a horrid, horrid man.

Sumner · May 13, 2011

I'm also a car guy and this comes up there also with hot rods, classic and streetrods. Be very careful to understand the difference between a policy that uses 'stated value' vs. 'agreed value'. They often are interchange in these postings and on car boards also. There can be a big difference what you are paid with 'stated' vs. 'agreed'.

It is explained pretty good at the bottom of this page...

http://www.boatsurveyshawaii.com/Market_Value_of_Boats.php

I'm not saying don't get 'stated' just realize you might not get paid what you think you should. I wanted to stay with my car insurance company who I've been with since the 60's and settled for 'stated' insurance for my streetrod as they don't have 'agreed'. But they have a lot of wiggle room and could pay me far less than the stated value if it was totaled. It looks like the same could be true for a boat with stated vs. agreed.

With the stated they accepted my value on a certain date. 10 years later they could say that the vehicle is still not in the shape it was 10 years prior even though I've been paying the same insurance premiums.

Take the time to understand the difference and quiz the insurance company, especially if you go with 'stated value',

Sum

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dparilla · May 13, 2011

USAA will also directly underwrite the policy if you ask. They went with my agreed price, which was 20% over blue book. The progressive option would only give replacement cost which they determined was under blue book because the boat is a 1986.

bffatcat · May 14, 2011

I dont understand what all the controversy is about

Its simple Just find an insurance co that has the best premium for an agreed upon value.
deductable is up to you