This boat has a deck locker for ground tackle. With proper anchor and chain, it's a hassle to manage if you're not 18 with a strong back. A windlass becomes ibncreasingly necessary, not a luxury. I installed a Lewmar Concept 1 with capstan. It sits on the front half of the deck locker hatch. The hatch was cut in two and the front half reinforced and epoxied in place. A hawse hole was cut through the hatch and the bottom of the locker and the front of the V berth forward of the panel. It works, with chain. Rope binds because it insists on coiling and won't drop free. The deck locker continues to function as storage space for a lunch hook and a washdown hose. The washdown pump is located on the aft bulkhead of the v berth. There are two foot switches on deck and another up/down switch at the helm. A 100 amp breaker is on the galley front by the companionway low down. The starting battery powers the windlass. Best $2,000 I ever spent.
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Don Evans
I Recognise Your Name
Is this the Prince Mishki (sp?), that used to post on the cruising newsgroup? And you lived aboard her in Florida? Just twigged some memory cells (what little are left). Your years of experience aboard the OD37 will be more than welcome to our small 37 community. Don
Is this the Prince Mishki (sp?), that used to post on the cruising newsgroup? And you lived aboard her in Florida? Just twigged some memory cells (what little are left). Your years of experience aboard the OD37 will be more than welcome to our small 37 community. Don
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Howard Levine
windlass
Sounds like an interesting way of doing it! One 37 i looked at had a small manual windlass mounted right in front of the deck locker and he had the rope just droping right into the deck locker. It didnt look like it worked well that way at all. I am considering installing a small bow pulpit to give more room between the anchor and the windlass and also giving a wood support for the chain to bang against while moving. Still thinking about it so lets see what other kind of ideas you fellows have. howie
Sounds like an interesting way of doing it! One 37 i looked at had a small manual windlass mounted right in front of the deck locker and he had the rope just droping right into the deck locker. It didnt look like it worked well that way at all. I am considering installing a small bow pulpit to give more room between the anchor and the windlass and also giving a wood support for the chain to bang against while moving. Still thinking about it so lets see what other kind of ideas you fellows have. howie
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Howard Levine
Question Peter
So with your instalation the chain and rope fall into the forward part of the hull under the vee berth? And what size chain and rode are you using? thanks, howie
So with your instalation the chain and rope fall into the forward part of the hull under the vee berth? And what size chain and rode are you using? thanks, howie
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Peter Brennan
Installing a wuindlass on an O'Day 37
Yes, the rode falls into the space under the V-berth. I installed a bulkhead, not full height, forward of the access openings so we have a chain locker separate from the storage space under the V-berth. Could provide a little collision prtection too. The rode is now 150' 5/16 BBB chain and 250' 5/8 three-strand rope. Since we expect most of the time to use only chain, only the chain goes in the chain locker and the rope goes behind the bulkead from which it can be deployed if needed. Rope is a real pain in a windless.
Yes, the rode falls into the space under the V-berth. I installed a bulkhead, not full height, forward of the access openings so we have a chain locker separate from the storage space under the V-berth. Could provide a little collision prtection too. The rode is now 150' 5/16 BBB chain and 250' 5/8 three-strand rope. Since we expect most of the time to use only chain, only the chain goes in the chain locker and the rope goes behind the bulkead from which it can be deployed if needed. Rope is a real pain in a windless.
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Peter Brennan
I recognize your name
I often posted to rec.boats.cruising under the name Prince Myshkin. I still post but now do so anonymously. We have had an O'Day 37 for six years now, but never lioved aboard in Florida or anywhere else.
I often posted to rec.boats.cruising under the name Prince Myshkin. I still post but now do so anonymously. We have had an O'Day 37 for six years now, but never lioved aboard in Florida or anywhere else.
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Peter Brennan
Circuit Breaker
One thing to keep in mind if you install an electric windlass is the location of the main circuit breaker. This is a 90 to 100 amp unit. It must be close to the batteries so that you do not have a live circuit capabnle of hundreds of amps running the length of the boat. It must also be accessible. I put it down low on the front of the galley panelling next to the companionway. It is available for instant activation, does not get in the way and will not get stepped on. After the fire last year, the repair yard put it inside the battery compartment so you had to remove the steps to get at it. Spent today putting it back where it belongs. Use a panel mount model, not a surface mount. Oh yeah, after the fire we installed two Rolls D4 (or is it 4D?) for the house and a Rolls 30 for the starting battery.
One thing to keep in mind if you install an electric windlass is the location of the main circuit breaker. This is a 90 to 100 amp unit. It must be close to the batteries so that you do not have a live circuit capabnle of hundreds of amps running the length of the boat. It must also be accessible. I put it down low on the front of the galley panelling next to the companionway. It is available for instant activation, does not get in the way and will not get stepped on. After the fire last year, the repair yard put it inside the battery compartment so you had to remove the steps to get at it. Spent today putting it back where it belongs. Use a panel mount model, not a surface mount. Oh yeah, after the fire we installed two Rolls D4 (or is it 4D?) for the house and a Rolls 30 for the starting battery.
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Don Evans
Fire?...Yikes
Thanks for responding Peter. I was obviously confused about the live-a-board comment, but I do remember corresponding with you some years ago about your OD37. I was wondering if you could share your experience with the fire? This has to be the most exciting event to have onboard. What happened? Don
Thanks for responding Peter. I was obviously confused about the live-a-board comment, but I do remember corresponding with you some years ago about your OD37. I was wondering if you could share your experience with the fire? This has to be the most exciting event to have onboard. What happened? Don
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Peter Brennan
The Fire
Oh, it's all too painful... But since you insist... The prelude is that the batteries were in bad shape. The boat had been out of service for three months in summer 1999 to repair an oil leak in the engine. That's another painful (and expensive) story. The batteries were not maintained while the boat was out of service and we found they would not hold a charge when we got the boat back. She was in the slip all winter with shore power on and the batteries charging. The batteriesd were only three years old, no-name Group 27s, which I intended to replace anyway with Rolls. So on March 31, 2000, I was moving the boat from the winter slip to the summer one, a distance of about one third mile. I was puttering around at idle speed switching fenders and docking lines and then headed for the slip. But then I decided to rev her up and take a little run so I ran the throttle up to cruising and headed out the channel. After about one minute, Bang! Bang! Bang! in quick succession and smoke started pouring out. I did not dare turn the engine off but headed for the slip. Opened the companion way and saw the smoke was coming from there, soon followed by flames. Manged to get one extingusher into the flames and knock it back. Men on the dock came down with a fifty pound dry chemical exinguisher and put the fire out. It was a close one. Damage was entirely confined to the battery compartment under the galley counter. With the door closed and the companionway in place it did not appear there was any damage at all. It was clear that all three batteries had exploded, probably because a surge from the high output alternator when I throttled up shorted them internally. A battery explosion is a steam explosion. The cables all melted and set fire to flammables stored under the galley, things like teak oil. All the galley cabinetry was badly charred on the back side. Plastic-handled galley utensils melted into a single unit that we now display as a piece of art. The CO detector on the forward saloon bulkhead deformed from the heat but still works. Insulation on the port icebox was burned off and the box melted through. All wiring was destroyed. So was the plumbing -- the water tanks dumped to the bilge and probably helped suppress the fire. I credit the wood galley structure with saving the boat. It insulated and charred but did not explode into flame as the fiberglass would have had the fire progressed much further. Fortunately, there was no damage whatever to the boat's structure. No damage occurred in the engine room either thanks to the sliding partition being closed. The adjuster was surpised it had not gone up totally. It was a mess, but by far the biggest mess was the fifty pounds of yellow dry chemical everywhere. It cost $1,800 just to clean that stuff out and we are still finding traces of it, like Christmas tree needles in the carpet in July. The adjustor suggested a couple of places in City Island that could handle repairs. We chose one. They insisted the boat had to be at the yard to make an estimate. So she was towed to Barron's. Big mistake! They hauled her then took weeks to come up with an estimate, presented in such a manner that if we had the work done elsewhere it would still cost us 20% of the estimate plus charges already incurred. Moral: insist on an in situ estimate and keep control of your boat. We did not get the boat back until mid-September. There was simply no excuse. Fortunately, I was in Kosovo on an assignment from mid-June until September otherwise someone would have been murdered. When we did get the boat back, I had to redo most of the wiring myself. It was just neatly but incompetently done. Same for the plumbing. Carpentry was pretty good though. They installed new Rolls batteries, two 4Ds and a Group 30, which required some modifications. The door on the port side is much larger and we lost those drawers. We now have only two drawers in the chart table. But the new batteries are actually easier to tend than the smaller ones were. So we got a new fresh water pump (the old one was also nearly new), and a new on-board charger as well as new batteries. The refrigerator was also kaput but I didn't know if it had just reached the end of its life, hastened by bad handling. So I installed at my expense a new fridge, a Frigoboat keel cooler model. Also replaced most of the Autohelm 4000, the control head and the fluxgate compass. The old ones were not usable because the connecting cables were cut. Anyway, the new fluxgate is much better located. Used to be under the sink where a stray knife tossed into the sink would make the boat go berserk. It is now just abaft the mast in the liquor locker. The insurance reimbursed some $30,000. I think the work was horrendously overpriced, especially in that it took many months and much of it had to be done over. I would have done much better to act as my own contractor and had the work done with the boat in the slip by people I hired. The first principle here is: be nice to your batteries and don't stow flammables near them. By the way, our insurance premium (Boat US and the policy was only two weeks old when the fire occurred) increased only ten percent. I had visions of it doubling or even tripling
Oh, it's all too painful... But since you insist... The prelude is that the batteries were in bad shape. The boat had been out of service for three months in summer 1999 to repair an oil leak in the engine. That's another painful (and expensive) story. The batteries were not maintained while the boat was out of service and we found they would not hold a charge when we got the boat back. She was in the slip all winter with shore power on and the batteries charging. The batteriesd were only three years old, no-name Group 27s, which I intended to replace anyway with Rolls. So on March 31, 2000, I was moving the boat from the winter slip to the summer one, a distance of about one third mile. I was puttering around at idle speed switching fenders and docking lines and then headed for the slip. But then I decided to rev her up and take a little run so I ran the throttle up to cruising and headed out the channel. After about one minute, Bang! Bang! Bang! in quick succession and smoke started pouring out. I did not dare turn the engine off but headed for the slip. Opened the companion way and saw the smoke was coming from there, soon followed by flames. Manged to get one extingusher into the flames and knock it back. Men on the dock came down with a fifty pound dry chemical exinguisher and put the fire out. It was a close one. Damage was entirely confined to the battery compartment under the galley counter. With the door closed and the companionway in place it did not appear there was any damage at all. It was clear that all three batteries had exploded, probably because a surge from the high output alternator when I throttled up shorted them internally. A battery explosion is a steam explosion. The cables all melted and set fire to flammables stored under the galley, things like teak oil. All the galley cabinetry was badly charred on the back side. Plastic-handled galley utensils melted into a single unit that we now display as a piece of art. The CO detector on the forward saloon bulkhead deformed from the heat but still works. Insulation on the port icebox was burned off and the box melted through. All wiring was destroyed. So was the plumbing -- the water tanks dumped to the bilge and probably helped suppress the fire. I credit the wood galley structure with saving the boat. It insulated and charred but did not explode into flame as the fiberglass would have had the fire progressed much further. Fortunately, there was no damage whatever to the boat's structure. No damage occurred in the engine room either thanks to the sliding partition being closed. The adjuster was surpised it had not gone up totally. It was a mess, but by far the biggest mess was the fifty pounds of yellow dry chemical everywhere. It cost $1,800 just to clean that stuff out and we are still finding traces of it, like Christmas tree needles in the carpet in July. The adjustor suggested a couple of places in City Island that could handle repairs. We chose one. They insisted the boat had to be at the yard to make an estimate. So she was towed to Barron's. Big mistake! They hauled her then took weeks to come up with an estimate, presented in such a manner that if we had the work done elsewhere it would still cost us 20% of the estimate plus charges already incurred. Moral: insist on an in situ estimate and keep control of your boat. We did not get the boat back until mid-September. There was simply no excuse. Fortunately, I was in Kosovo on an assignment from mid-June until September otherwise someone would have been murdered. When we did get the boat back, I had to redo most of the wiring myself. It was just neatly but incompetently done. Same for the plumbing. Carpentry was pretty good though. They installed new Rolls batteries, two 4Ds and a Group 30, which required some modifications. The door on the port side is much larger and we lost those drawers. We now have only two drawers in the chart table. But the new batteries are actually easier to tend than the smaller ones were. So we got a new fresh water pump (the old one was also nearly new), and a new on-board charger as well as new batteries. The refrigerator was also kaput but I didn't know if it had just reached the end of its life, hastened by bad handling. So I installed at my expense a new fridge, a Frigoboat keel cooler model. Also replaced most of the Autohelm 4000, the control head and the fluxgate compass. The old ones were not usable because the connecting cables were cut. Anyway, the new fluxgate is much better located. Used to be under the sink where a stray knife tossed into the sink would make the boat go berserk. It is now just abaft the mast in the liquor locker. The insurance reimbursed some $30,000. I think the work was horrendously overpriced, especially in that it took many months and much of it had to be done over. I would have done much better to act as my own contractor and had the work done with the boat in the slip by people I hired. The first principle here is: be nice to your batteries and don't stow flammables near them. By the way, our insurance premium (Boat US and the policy was only two weeks old when the fire occurred) increased only ten percent. I had visions of it doubling or even tripling
D
dave
The fire
Batteries while being charged are also going thru an electrolysis process. This is converting simple water into oxygen and hydrogen gas. This is why you need to add water to your batteries. The hydrogen gas is extremely flammable. Batteries are usually in a confined space so the concentration builds up and any source of ignition and it ignites (usually in an explosion).
Batteries while being charged are also going thru an electrolysis process. This is converting simple water into oxygen and hydrogen gas. This is why you need to add water to your batteries. The hydrogen gas is extremely flammable. Batteries are usually in a confined space so the concentration builds up and any source of ignition and it ignites (usually in an explosion).
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Peter Brennan
The Fire
True, electrolysis during charging at a high rate will cause gassing, the gases being hydrogen and oxygen, which can and will reunite explosively. But the volume available inside the battery is small and even in a closed space the gases dissipate rapidly. With an ignition source you are more likely to get a Pop! that will blow off the caps or a Whoosh! that will take off your eyebrows. Unless it's a really big battery, you won't get a Bang that shatters the battery case. For that you need a steam explosion. If there is an internal short, as can happen with warped plates or sediment at the bottom of the case coming in contact with the plates, you get a tremendoius surge of heat that almost instantly turns the fluid in the battery into acidic steam under very high pressure. Blam! Battery bits and acid all over the place. The same short will also melt the external cables joining the batteries and that's where the fire comes from. By the way, as much damage as the extinguisher powder did, it may have prevented a lot more by neutralizing the acid.
True, electrolysis during charging at a high rate will cause gassing, the gases being hydrogen and oxygen, which can and will reunite explosively. But the volume available inside the battery is small and even in a closed space the gases dissipate rapidly. With an ignition source you are more likely to get a Pop! that will blow off the caps or a Whoosh! that will take off your eyebrows. Unless it's a really big battery, you won't get a Bang that shatters the battery case. For that you need a steam explosion. If there is an internal short, as can happen with warped plates or sediment at the bottom of the case coming in contact with the plates, you get a tremendoius surge of heat that almost instantly turns the fluid in the battery into acidic steam under very high pressure. Blam! Battery bits and acid all over the place. The same short will also melt the external cables joining the batteries and that's where the fire comes from. By the way, as much damage as the extinguisher powder did, it may have prevented a lot more by neutralizing the acid.
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Don Evans
Some Great Advice
Sorry to make you relive the nightmare, but you have brought forward some very good points about proper batt storage, and maintenance, and just as important, how to deal with the consequences otherwise. Thanks for sharing Peter. Don
Sorry to make you relive the nightmare, but you have brought forward some very good points about proper batt storage, and maintenance, and just as important, how to deal with the consequences otherwise. Thanks for sharing Peter. Don
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Olivier
windlass
I heard of some people placing the windlass into the locker itselef and bringing the chain/rope using rollers. Has anyone tried it?
I heard of some people placing the windlass into the locker itselef and bringing the chain/rope using rollers. Has anyone tried it?
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Peter Brennan
Windlass in locker
I have seen such an installation. There are several problems with it. You need a horizontal windlass because you can't get a fair lead to the windlass down in the locker. Then, there is no place for the rope and chain to go so someone has to tail the rode as it comes aboard.
I have seen such an installation. There are several problems with it. You need a horizontal windlass because you can't get a fair lead to the windlass down in the locker. Then, there is no place for the rope and chain to go so someone has to tail the rode as it comes aboard.
J
Janusz Cichalewski
Peter!
Could you give me your tel. number or give me a call 914 524 9213 or 917 6031166. I get a big problem with my windlass. Can you show me your boat? Thank you Janusz Cichalewski cichal@aol.com
Could you give me your tel. number or give me a call 914 524 9213 or 917 6031166. I get a big problem with my windlass. Can you show me your boat? Thank you Janusz Cichalewski cichal@aol.com
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