Installing Electric Brakes

[rgranger]

So I'm hoping someone on this list has installed their own electric brakes on a trailer. I recently acquired a duel axle trailer (with no brakes) that I've modified to fit a Rhodes 22 sailboat. The boat is nearly 2 ton once loaded so I need brakes on this trailer. The trailer shop said they could put in electric brakes on one axle for about $300 give or take. That did not give me sticker shock but... If it is only $100 in parts and something I could do on a weekend, I think I'd rather do it myself and have a better idea of how everything works to boot. If it is a bigger deal than that, I'll let the trailer shop do it.

So here is what I need (I guess)..

1) Are there some good instructions (on the net or otherwise) that takes you through installing a brake kit?
2) A parts list so I can price this out....
3) Some first hand advice on how hard a job this is... I have reasonable mechanical skills and a decent compliment of tools but... For example I've changed the clutch on my Chevy S-10 before... and although it all worked fine in the end... I thought that was rather difficult...and it took me two days and several trips into town. I've never done anything like installing brakes before so... help/advice/firsthand experience/ if you can.

 

[walt]

This might be useful?

I know very little about electric brakes but you might get some info here

http://www.championtrailers.com/brkart.html#electric_brakes

and a bunch more articles..

http://www.championtrailers.com/techsup.html

 

[rgranger]

Thanks... That is just what I needed.

 

[Rick Webb]

I'll second Champion

It aint rocket science and once you get one wheel done the others are exactly the same.

Here are other things to consider:

most states require brakes on both axles for anything capable of more than#3500, varies a bit on weight from state to state

electric brakes are OK unless the trailer is going in the water

you should also have a controller in your tow vehicle and not just rely on the brake light circuts

a call to the nice folks at Champion will give you a good list and they will be happy to give you advice on the instalation.

 

[dscribner]

One option if electo-hydraulic brakes. (sp) The coupler is pricey. Were I you, I'd get a kit to put disk surge brakes on and call it a day. You can install them in a long afternoon with no wiring and they work great. I have drum brakes with free-backing plates. They work well enough but to do it again, I definitely go disk. I bought the entire kit for $351 on Ebay. It was all quality stuff (Tiedown).

 

[Rick Webb]

Disk Brake Caution

Disk brakes take much more pressure to acivate than drum brakes do, on lighter trailers <#3,000 or so drum brakes are a better option not sure how this would work into a dual axle trailer at about #4,000 but worth consideration.

 

[KD3PC]

the axles and springs need to be rated for the weight you hope to carry, then the spindles have to handle the loads anticipated.

Now you are at the brakes, and the axle needs to either have the correct backing plate or the ability to add the correct backing plate to the existing hubs/axles

the electric "puck" style actuated brakes are really not up to the task that you intend, and require constant maintenance at best. As they can get hot and drag, that heats up things and can toast the axle bearings in a heart beat.

 

[rgranger]

So I found this kit on eBay

item #260396505778

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Add-Brakes-...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3ca0d75ab2

And I typed with the owner of the company. He said this one is marine rated but not for salt water. Seems like a good price compared to surge brakes and even if they rust out after 5 years, It is way less expensive than surge brakes to replace these from time to time. I've used a lot of things in salt water that were not rated for salt. And as long as I rinse off right away and quickly treat and paint any metals that start to oxidize, I've been fine. For instance I sail in the Albemarle and Pamlico sounds with a Briggs and Straton 5 hp outboard. And I've been able to keep her from rusting out so far. With respect to these brakes, it seems to me that if I do take my boat to a salty place and then just back the trailer into a fresh water lake soon after, I should get some good life out of these brakes.

Any scathing opinions welcome. I really do want a clear picture of what I'm getting into here.

 

[dscribner]

I think salt water would be the real criminal here. It seems like you're a lake sailor so I'd go with it. You're using the same rational I use for the trolling motor for my dinghy. A salt water one costs $500 and up. My ginky fresh water $89 Minnkota did fine for three years, until it caught a lobster buoy and dropped 65 feet. So, I can buy cheapos for 18 years with no worries.

 

[Sumner]

....... Were I you, I'd get a kit to put disk surge brakes on and call it a day. You can install them in a long afternoon with no wiring and they work great.. .

Ditto.....I know you are going to be tempted by the price difference, but look at the brake pictures on the other thread about the surge coupler and decide if you want to replace that stuff every few years. I also just posted on another board my thoughts on elect. vs. the drum and I have both...

http://www.macgregor26x.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19686&sid=2fcf92bc89565ed382f13d2fa3974869

Surge discs might be a little more up front, but over a few years I'll bet they end up costing less and you will have some great working brakes that will work with any tow vehicle you tow with (no need for a controller).

Right now they are under $400 where we bought ours...

http://www.blackbearsportinggoods.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ELLTIED82101&click=12

That is a deal, but their pricing does fluctuate, so don't wait long.

I think salt water would be the real criminal here. It seems like you're a lake sailor so I'd go with it. You're using the same rational I use for the trolling motor for my dinghy. A salt water one costs $500 and up. My ginky fresh water $89 Minnkota did fine for three years, until it caught a lobster buoy and dropped 65 feet. So, I can buy cheapos for 18 years with no worries.

Ok I like your earlier reply better about going with the surge disc . I think he has mentioned going to salt water with the boat/trailer. Even if he wasn't I think the price difference doesn't warrant the replace more often in this case as we are also talking major safety issues also with not only him, but the rest of us on the road with him. I just think that for a trailer going into the water, fresh or salt, the surge disc are cheaper and safer in the long run,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[jackhartjr]

You said, "With respect to these brakes, it seems to me that if I do take my boat to a salty place and then just back the trailer into a fresh water lake soon after, I should get some good life out of these brakes."
Here is the deal, if you do not rinse the salt water off within a few minutes the damage starts. How do I know, from SCUBA diving, when I rinse my equipment as soon as I get out of the water the service annually is not near as intense as when I don't!
Jack

 

[walt]

if you want to replace that stuff every few years.

Are drum brakes really that bad??? Mine are 21 years old and I think work just fine. I’ve replaced the cylinder but that is it.

The drum brake in the other post was put on the street the same year as the car in the picture was. I bet those work fine also just by replacing the cylinder. If anything, Id conclude that the drum brakes have some chance of outlasting everything else on the trailer.

 

[walt]

Wikipedia

Compared to drum brakes, disc brakes offer better stopping performance, because the disc is more readily cooled. As a consequence discs are less prone to the "brake fade" caused when brake components overheat; and disc brakes recover more quickly from immersion (wet brakes are less effective). Most drum brake designs have at least one leading shoe, which gives a servo-effect; see leading/trailing drum brake. By contrast, a disc brake has no self-servo effect and its braking force is always proportional to the pressure placed on the brake pad by the braking system via any brake servo, braking pedal or lever, this tends to give the driver better "feel" to avoid impending lockup. Drums are also prone to "bell mouthing", and trap worn lining material within the assembly, both causes of various braking problems.

From Champion

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Most trailer hydraulic drum brake units require manual adjustment of the brake units. This is normally done once a year or every 3000 to 5000 miles . [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Disc brakes require higher static line pressures for effective braking torque to be experienced. Therefore a lighter towed load, such as the 18’ boat in the example above, will probably not experience effective braking with disc brakes, due to the lower mass & therefore lower differential pressure created at a given rate of deceleration, whereas a heavier towed load such as the 22’ boat noted above will have a much better braking response with disc brakes, because of the higher towed weight, & greater differential pressure creating a higher hydraulic output pressure.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]With all of these factors taken into consideration it is advisable to install drum brakes on trailers if the GVW is less than 3000#.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For trailers over 3000# GVW the braking performance can be relatively comparable for both drum & disc brakes.[/FONT]

 

[Sumner]

Are drum brakes really that bad??? Mine are 21 years old and I think work just fine. I’ve replaced the cylinder but that is it.

He is asking about installing new brakes and he will be in salt water with the trailer and the boat is over 4000 lbs.. In that case I'd say that the surge disc are the best bet for that application.

It seems that most of the brake problems that show up on these boards is related to drum brakes not disc. If the brakes on my car looked like those trailer brakes then I'd be worried.

I've had to drive through...

...salt water going on and off the salt at Bonneville during Speed Week. When I got home after the picture above I did have to replace the rear drums on the truck, the disc on the front were ok,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[walt]

It seems that most of the brake problems that show up on these boards is related to drum brakes not disc

You could be right (and you are the guy I usually go to for brake advice). I normally dont pay attention to brake posts like I am doing now since Im right in the middle of my trailer brake job - but it seems that brake problems are much more related to a lack of brake fluid maintinence or letting the brake fluid run dry. For example, problems from rust in the system dont seem to follow disk or drum - just happens that most trailers already have drum brakes on them.

I really dont think trailer brake problems Ive seen or heard about have had much to do with disk or drum - almost always brake fluid or brake fluid pressure delivery.

All three of my vehicles have drum brakes on the rear - two have over 100K miles - never an issue (that will probably change now that I have said that). There are other good reasons for disk brakes such as the cooling aspect for a larger trailer. I have a hard time understanding the reliability aspect as its not really what I see???

Cant disagree that for the OP, disk brakes are better - his boat/trailer is over 3000 pounds (using the number from the Champion web site for when to go from drum to disk).

 

[keithbennett]

Just a small nit but remember that electric brakes are mandated to have a break-a-way box which requires a separate battery to operate the breaks in case the pin gets pulled. This break-a-way is what the 5th wheels/trailers use and they have kits for them. Not terribly expensive but (in my case) easily forgotten.

 

[rgranger]

Thanks guys... You all have certainly given me a lot to think about. Surge disks do sound like a good option clean and simple ... but here is a fly in the ointment....

Two websites I looked over yesterday made the claim that "strictly speaking" surge brakes are not legal. The law in most states require that the operator of the tow vehicle be able to actuate the brakes manually and electric brakes can be set up with a controller under the dash that has a button you push to actuate the brakes. Surge brakes cannot be actuated from within the cab. Now both websites also said that this specific aspect of the statute is mostly ignored but I'm not really sure what "mostly" means. So for this reason, I'm leaning towards electric. ... and I believe the break-away issue exists for both surge or electric?

 

[Squidd]

Electric brakes are fine for your boat trailer...

Breakaways are required on both hydraulic and electric setups...

The "spring and shoe" deterioration (in water) is the same for hydraulic as electric..

Wear and adjustment schedual is the same...

Somewhat important, you have NO brake action in reverse (backing down a steep landing) with hydraulic/surge setup...you will with electric..

 

[rgranger]

Somewhat important, you have NO brake action in reverse (backing down a steep landing) with hydraulic/surge setup...you will with electric..

Squidd:
Are you sure that is correct? I was told by the folks at my local trailer shop (who wanted me to spring for a $1000 surge brake job) that the main problem with electric brakes is that if you forget to unplug them before you back into the water, you will ruin them. They were making the point that I'll eventually ruin my brakes by forgetting to unplug so I might as well spring for the $1000 job. My comeback was that I'd have to forget 4 times before the electric brakes cost the same as surge brakes... they wanted $300 for the electric brake job.


I don't know if it is true that forgetting to unplug will ruin them!!!! It is just what I was told.

But it seems to me that if it is true... you won't have brakes in reverse going down the ramp either way.

 

[Squidd]

I'm not saying electric brakes are better and everyone else is wrong.. not at all..

I'm just saying electric brakes are "as good" and not to be afraid of them...

"Usually" I would suggest unpluging the trailer from truck anyway to protect the "hot lights" from cracking due to cold water immersion.. and no the brakes are not going to immediatly disentergrate because the were immersed, just as the lights don't all burn out because they hit the water.. (how many times have we all left the lights pluged in and had no damage..?)

However on a steep landing, (where I don't need a tongue extention or cable or strap) I'd like the option of the trailer helping the brake chores and prevent pulling the truck off the deep end.