Installation of an exhaust system.

Sep 25, 2008
615
Morgan 415 Out Island Rogersville, AL
Once again I am in need of advice from this excellent group (I’m not going to double post to other forums). I am in the process of repowering my old Morgan Out Island 415. The plan is to replace the Perkins 4-154 (which I can’t get new parts for anymore) with a Cummins 4B3.3. The specs on the 4B3.3 calls for a minimum exhaust line diameter of 2.5”. My old exhaust line is a kludge 2” and 2.5” exhaust line. Furthermore, the old waterlift muffler utilizes 2” in and out ports. (In retrospect, the use of 2” line on a 62 BHP engine is probably what caused the excessive build-up of soot on my transom.) The engine room is directly under the center cockpit. It is going to be a bear to run new exhaust line from the engine room to the transom. I’ll be doing the work myself in very hot and humid conditions. I’m not as flexible as I once was (back fusion).
There is a lazy part of me that wants to use all 2.5” exhaust line (probably trident wire reinforced wet exhaust line). However, to my surprise, I cannot find a manufacture of a waterlift muffler that has 2.5” in and out ports. Unless such a beast exists, I will have to utilize 2.5” to 3” fiberglass reducers. Such a reducer is mandated between the mixing elbow and the bottom of the waterlift muffler. I hate the thought of inserting an inflexible reducer between the engine and the muffler because of the short distance between the two. The old installation resulted in little fore-and-aft dampening between engine and exhaust, resulting in vibration. A hump hose would reduce vibration; however, the use of a hump hose would necessitate the insertion of yet more rigid pipe to clamp the hump hose to. I probably won’t use a hump hose unless someone comes up with a compelling reason to do so.
It would make sense to go with all 3” hose from the top of the waterlift to the transom. However, from the experience of installing my genset that required a run of 2” hose from the engine room to the transom, I know how tough it will be to work with 3” hose. I guess the smart thing would be to use a 3” to 2.5” reducer at the top of the muffler and stick with 2.5” line. Does this logic sound good? Would using 2.5” hose result in a substantial savings in effort? The money savings seems minor to me.
Additionally, what is a good source for 3” to 2.5” reducers? What should I use for clamps? T-bolt clamps are a pain because there is no room to get a socket over the nut, forcing the use of an open-ended wrench to tighten the suckers. It takes a very long time to tork a T-Clamp using a wrench, especially when contorted in a tight confine. Would the use of SS ABYC (sp?) engraved hose clamps be strong enough? Also, I guess it wouldn’t make sense to use both fiberglass exhaust tube in conjunction with hose because the money savings would be offset by the need for extra clamps. And finally, is the use of non-reinforced wet-exhaust hose a viable option? If so, would it be more flexible? Tell me what y’all think?
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Not sure what the question is in your post.
You do need a hump hose (anti siphon) to keep water coming in and sinking the boat in heavy seas.
 
Jan 4, 2006
6,513
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Interesting problem.

Any chance of providing a rough and ready dimensioned hand drawn sketch just to keep the dimensions in order ?
 
Sep 25, 2008
615
Morgan 415 Out Island Rogersville, AL
Why would a hump hose keep sea water out? Isn't that the purpose of the two vented loops--the one between the block and the mixing elbow and the one immediately after the waterlift muffler.
 
Sep 25, 2008
615
Morgan 415 Out Island Rogersville, AL
The point of my post was to solicit information that will result in an effective and long lasting exhaust system that will stand up to the rigors of a survey. Also, I want to make sure the system utilizes as few reducers and connections as is practical and safe. Moreover, I want the system to go together as easy as possible because of the difficulty of working in high heat and humidity. This is only the second time in my life that I will be doing an exhaust system. I suspect that there are some labor-saving components I could incorporate that are not in the West Marine, Defenders, and Hamilton Marine catalogs. Lastly, I am not against saving some money; however, I don't want to do so if it results in an inferior system.

Last night I went to centekindustries.com and was pleased to discover that a vernalift side angle in/top out muffler is manufactured (part # 1500110) with 2.5" inlet and outlet ports. It was surprising to me to find that the major vendors don't list the 1500110 in their inventory.
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Last night I went to centekindustries.com and was pleased to discover that a vernalift side angle in/top out muffler is manufactured (part # 1500110) with 2.5" inlet and outlet ports. It was surprising to me to find that the major vendors don't list the 1500110 in their inventory.
it is not a common stock item (low demand/or turn over)...having said that....i am impressed with your engine choice don't know how you could do much better than that keep us posted
 
Sep 25, 2008
615
Morgan 415 Out Island Rogersville, AL
it is not a common stock item (low demand/or turn over)...having said that....i am impressed with your engine choice don't know how you could do much better than that keep us posted
As it turns out, the marinized version of the 4B3.3 put together by Transatlantic Diesel is the only drop-in replacement for the Perkins 4-154 available. Unfortunately, the Perkins develops its max horsepower (62) at 3000 rpm. The 4B3.3 develops its max horespower (65) at 2600 rpm. The difference of 400 rpm requires a new transmission and reduction ratio, as well as a new prop. The problem is excerbated by the fact that the propeller aperture on the Morgan 415 OI is too small. I'm going to go with a 4-bladed feathering max-prop that will be sized to 15% (wrt propeller diameter) of the hull. I'll need 4 blades to smooth out the vibration induced by the close proximity of the hull at the top of the aperture. The old prop was 20% (wrt to prop diameter) away from the hull--which is fairly conservative. The old Hurth transmission has a 2.75:1 gear ratio. The new hydraulic transmission will have a 1.92:1 gear ratio. It's scary making these high-dollar decisions. I highly recommend David Gerr's book, The Propeller Handbook. Choosing an engine, transmission and propeller requires making some compromises. I want to play a role in making those compromises.
 

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,064
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
I replaced my water lift muffler a few years ago. It was custom made of fiberglass by a company that could modify easily to your specs. I will get the name of the company and post this weekend when at the boat.
 
Sep 25, 2008
615
Morgan 415 Out Island Rogersville, AL
Life is never simple. I reported above that I found a 2.5 inch in/out waterlift muffler. Unfortunately, vernalift says that it can only accommodate a maximum of 40 HP. I guess I will be going with 2.5" line between the mixing elbow and the waterlift muffler. I plan to use 3" between the muffler and the transom.

Any recommendations for a source of 2.5" to 3" fiberglass reducers? Would I be stupid to introduce an exhaust outlent on the side of my boat well above the waterline. The bad thing about the current exhaust exit on the transom is that it is just a couple of inches above the water. It can't be raised more than a couple more inches because I will then hit the bottom of my bunk which runs athwartship parallel to the transom.
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Life is never simple. I reported above that I found a 2.5 inch in/out waterlift muffler. Unfortunately, vernalift says that it can only accommodate a maximum of 40 HP. I guess I will be going with 2.5" line between the mixing elbow and the waterlift muffler. I plan to use 3" between the muffler and the transom.

Any recommendations for a source of 2.5" to 3" fiberglass reducers? Would I be stupid to introduce an exhaust outlent on the side of my boat well above the waterline. The bad thing about the current exhaust exit on the transom is that it is just a couple of inches above the water. It can't be raised more than a couple more inches because I will then hit the bottom of my bunk which runs athwartship parallel to the transom.
http://www.centekindustries.com/fittings.html

look at this page you may find what you need....they make reducers for 2 1/2 to 3 inch in straight, 45 deg and 90 deg
 
Sep 25, 2008
615
Morgan 415 Out Island Rogersville, AL
http://www.centekindustries.com/fittings.html

look at this page you may find what you need....they make reducers for 2 1/2 to 3 inch in straight, 45 deg and 90 deg
Thanks.

I just ordered the centek 11500112 which is the angled in muffler. The mixing elbow's out is 45 deg down so it should require a straight shot in using a 2.5 to 3 reducer (increaser).

Though I won't be ordering the exhaust hose until next monday, I am currently leaning towards using 2.5" even after the muffler.

I am currently leaning towards using the ABYC SS engraved hose clamps.

Would I be flirting with death by using just one clamp at the end of each hose?
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
on exhaust it always better to double clamp all connections they do loosen up over time

if you splice double clamp both sides of the splice and double clamp the ends as well

use tee bolt clamps if you can

i had to tighten up an exhaust system on a 40 ft carver about 2 years ago to satisfy a servers list it had 36 clamps on 5" hose..was a twin inboard...the last 12 clamps at the transom were very hard to access and i used a long mirror and socket and ratchet with a 18" extension...will find a young fellow next time i have to do that
 

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,064
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
Centek industries is a great company. I would call them and discuss your needs.... They do custom work
 
Sep 25, 2008
615
Morgan 415 Out Island Rogersville, AL
I wan't to avoid T Clamps if the ABYC clamps will work. I've used the T clamps in the past--they take too long to clamp using a wrench. Sockets don't work on them except for the few turns in the beginning. Also, they have to be sized perfectly or they will bottom out. Trying to move around the engine room with a long stud sticking out of every exhaust hose clamp is painful. I'm hoping someone will speak up and say that the ABYC clamps are an acceptable choice. If I wind up using the t clamps, I won't order them until I have the hose. Even then I may only order one or two in the beginning to ensure a good fit. However, I hope I don't have to use them.
 
Nov 26, 2008
1,966
Endeavour 42 Cruisin
Abyc clamps? Do you mean AWAB?

My perkins 4.154 exhaust system is all clamped with AWAB clamps and I've had zero issues in 6 years.

How much is the repower?
I was quoted around $18,000 including all labor for my Endeavour center cockpit for a Beta Marine. Dont need it thankfully but I was interested and had a good chat with the engine mech at Sailcraft in NC.

Good luck.
 

Blitz

.
Jul 10, 2007
677
Seidelmann 34 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
I wan't to avoid T Clamps if the ABYC clamps will work. I've used the T clamps in the past--they take too long to clamp using a wrench. Sockets don't work on them except for the few turns in the beginning. Also, they have to be sized perfectly or they will bottom out. Trying to move around the engine room with a long stud sticking out of every exhaust hose clamp is painful. I'm hoping someone will speak up and say that the ABYC clamps are an acceptable choice. If I wind up using the t clamps, I won't order them until I have the hose. Even then I may only order one or two in the beginning to ensure a good fit.
I'm not sure you'll get them tight enough without t-clamps - if not tight enough you'll leak raw water or deadly gases.

Using a deep 1/4" drive socket works well and tightening went quickly on my exhaust hose replacements a year ago.