Hi everyone - We are in the exciting process of boat-shopping and my question is two-fold: 1. We really like the look of the Hunter Legend (we've seen used 35' and 37') and we are hoping to do some club racing when our kids (3 and 5 now) are older and more experienced (we have an 11' daysailer now), as well as cruising. Down the road, off-shore sailing is also a consideration. A friend told us that the Hunter isn't as stable a boat as we may need, which surprised us. What has your experience been with the Hunters in this size range and their stability? 2. We have been shopping for older (1980's) boats because that's what's in our price range for this size (35'-40'). Today I got a call about a 1990 37' Legend that needs get unloaded this week at what is supposed to be a great deal. After scanning some input in this forum, the opinion was expressed that the more recent Hunters are not as solidly made as the older ones. What do you all think? Thanks so much for your help. Boat-shopping is exhilarating but can be very confusing! -wendy
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Plenty of opinions
You'll find no shortage of opinions on what makes a 'stable' boat, and particularly, what is good for 'offshore' use. Hunters of that era (and this one) are not designed primarily to cross oceans. However, that doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't. In 1990, a Hunter 35.5 (very much like the Legend 35) won the Pacific Cup (SF to Hawaii). About the same time a small fleet of 35.5's did a one design race to Bermuda and hit some severe weather. They all came through with minimal damage. A couple years back a Passage 450 did very nicely in the West Marine Caribbean 1500, and finished with far less damage than some high profile 'blue water' boats. Hunters of that era are certainly not unstable. They are built to sail well in light air, so you'll need to reef a bit earlier than in something like a Westsail. However, you'll also arrive a few hours sooner.
The Legend-era boats of the late 80's and early 90's are quite popular and are some people consider them among the best ever built by Hunter.
You'll find no shortage of opinions on what makes a 'stable' boat, and particularly, what is good for 'offshore' use. Hunters of that era (and this one) are not designed primarily to cross oceans. However, that doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't. In 1990, a Hunter 35.5 (very much like the Legend 35) won the Pacific Cup (SF to Hawaii). About the same time a small fleet of 35.5's did a one design race to Bermuda and hit some severe weather. They all came through with minimal damage. A couple years back a Passage 450 did very nicely in the West Marine Caribbean 1500, and finished with far less damage than some high profile 'blue water' boats. Hunters of that era are certainly not unstable. They are built to sail well in light air, so you'll need to reef a bit earlier than in something like a Westsail. However, you'll also arrive a few hours sooner.
The Legend-era boats of the late 80's and early 90's are quite popular and are some people consider them among the best ever built by Hunter.Unstable or Tender?
I wouldn't say unstable, but I will say tender. I've been sailing a '88 Legend 37 for 6 seasons now. We absolutely love the boat. But it is a tender boat. That means that she'll heel quicker in the wind. This doesn't affect the stability of the boat. Certain adjustments are required when the wind picks up above 15 kts. I'll reduce sail or relax the sheets. I've had her in extremely rough water and felt comfortable with her stability. Good Luck with your selection.
I wouldn't say unstable, but I will say tender. I've been sailing a '88 Legend 37 for 6 seasons now. We absolutely love the boat. But it is a tender boat. That means that she'll heel quicker in the wind. This doesn't affect the stability of the boat. Certain adjustments are required when the wind picks up above 15 kts. I'll reduce sail or relax the sheets. I've had her in extremely rough water and felt comfortable with her stability. Good Luck with your selection.
37.5 Legend
Wendy, I have a 91 37.5 Legend and it is everything that enyone could want in a boat of its size and price range. It is fast, comfortable, and yes even stable and solid. Of course everyone has their own definition of stable. Last weekend on a close reach in 17 knots of wind we were at about 25 degrees of heel doing 7 plus knots with about 1 1/2 spokes of weather helm. It was very stable in that position for about 1 hour. Yes I should have reefed and let her stand up but it was such a great ride I just couldn't do it. If you do want to reef it is simple and only takes a couple of minutes in or out. First reef generally goes in at 15 knots and good for up to 20 to 25 knots. My druthers aside, stability and speed are generally trade-offs. But the 37.5 is more stable than most other 37 foot racers but not as stable as most other 37 foot cruisers. Take your pick, but not both. As far as solid goes. It is just fine for in shore work. Though others have taken them on ocean crossings I don't have any desire to do so. But for the bay, lakes, or even a shot to Bermuda or further south it should be ok. There is plenty of room inside for 4 adults but ackward above that. Engine has loads of power for both maneuvering or cruising. The rub rail is a great equalizer in and around pilings. If you can get it at a good price I would/did jump at the chance. Let me know what you decide. p.s. A 1990 boat is still 10 years old and not a recent build. Since the 37.5 there have been 37.6s and 380s. Not sure what you mean by recently built boats being not as solid. But imho the 37.5 is a solid boat. There are many who don't like the new rigs but that is not really so much a question of stability as personal taste. Les s/v Mutual Fun
Wendy, I have a 91 37.5 Legend and it is everything that enyone could want in a boat of its size and price range. It is fast, comfortable, and yes even stable and solid. Of course everyone has their own definition of stable. Last weekend on a close reach in 17 knots of wind we were at about 25 degrees of heel doing 7 plus knots with about 1 1/2 spokes of weather helm. It was very stable in that position for about 1 hour. Yes I should have reefed and let her stand up but it was such a great ride I just couldn't do it. If you do want to reef it is simple and only takes a couple of minutes in or out. First reef generally goes in at 15 knots and good for up to 20 to 25 knots. My druthers aside, stability and speed are generally trade-offs. But the 37.5 is more stable than most other 37 foot racers but not as stable as most other 37 foot cruisers. Take your pick, but not both. As far as solid goes. It is just fine for in shore work. Though others have taken them on ocean crossings I don't have any desire to do so. But for the bay, lakes, or even a shot to Bermuda or further south it should be ok. There is plenty of room inside for 4 adults but ackward above that. Engine has loads of power for both maneuvering or cruising. The rub rail is a great equalizer in and around pilings. If you can get it at a good price I would/did jump at the chance. Let me know what you decide. p.s. A 1990 boat is still 10 years old and not a recent build. Since the 37.5 there have been 37.6s and 380s. Not sure what you mean by recently built boats being not as solid. But imho the 37.5 is a solid boat. There are many who don't like the new rigs but that is not really so much a question of stability as personal taste. Les s/v Mutual Fun
Comments on the '88 35 Legend
I think some of the "tender" comments about Hunters come from pre '87 boats like the 34, which have have been described as "tender," particularly the shoal draft keel models. Starting with the Legend 35 introduced in late '86, a keel bulb was put on shoal draft Hunters which seem to have helped the "tender" issue a lot. I don't find my 35 tender, she takes 20 knot winds with full sails no problem (have original 110 jib), though I usually start reefing about then. I have been caught in 30 knt squalls with full sails up and even in those conditions the boat's manners were great. As for "off-shore" sailing, depends on what you mean. I take my 35 "off-shore" to the Bahamas or Keys without hesitation. On the other hand, the boat as not originally equipped with some of the things you'd want to consider for serious off-shore passages (inner forestay, deeper reefs in the main, extra tankage, charging and storage capacity; extra heavy rigging, etc.). Whether it makes sense to buy a Hunter and then equip it for such use or buy a boat that already has some of these items built in is up to you. But for coastal cruising and "offshore" trips to the Island, I think ts a great boat for the price. Check the owner's review sections for more info on these boats. And make sure you get a good survey before you commit!
I think some of the "tender" comments about Hunters come from pre '87 boats like the 34, which have have been described as "tender," particularly the shoal draft keel models. Starting with the Legend 35 introduced in late '86, a keel bulb was put on shoal draft Hunters which seem to have helped the "tender" issue a lot. I don't find my 35 tender, she takes 20 knot winds with full sails no problem (have original 110 jib), though I usually start reefing about then. I have been caught in 30 knt squalls with full sails up and even in those conditions the boat's manners were great. As for "off-shore" sailing, depends on what you mean. I take my 35 "off-shore" to the Bahamas or Keys without hesitation. On the other hand, the boat as not originally equipped with some of the things you'd want to consider for serious off-shore passages (inner forestay, deeper reefs in the main, extra tankage, charging and storage capacity; extra heavy rigging, etc.). Whether it makes sense to buy a Hunter and then equip it for such use or buy a boat that already has some of these items built in is up to you. But for coastal cruising and "offshore" trips to the Island, I think ts a great boat for the price. Check the owner's review sections for more info on these boats. And make sure you get a good survey before you commit!
It's Funny
It's funny how people always want to put Hunter Boats down. I have a H37C 1983 vintage. When I was buying it people told me to get a good life insurance policy. Then I met a man on this site, named Blaise Pierson, who took his H37C trans atlantic four times. The problem is, many people still think a sailboat should be part boat and part reef crusher. The new designs (fiber glass boats) are faster and much more responsive (tender) than the old Aldens and the like. In a storm you can't just lie ahull and wait for the weather to pass. You have to take active measures and that's what the lighter boats do best. In a storm, on a lee shore, I'd rather be in a Hunter than a 50 ton, full keel tank. I'd have a much better chance of sailing out of there; and fast. Ron
It's funny how people always want to put Hunter Boats down. I have a H37C 1983 vintage. When I was buying it people told me to get a good life insurance policy. Then I met a man on this site, named Blaise Pierson, who took his H37C trans atlantic four times. The problem is, many people still think a sailboat should be part boat and part reef crusher. The new designs (fiber glass boats) are faster and much more responsive (tender) than the old Aldens and the like. In a storm you can't just lie ahull and wait for the weather to pass. You have to take active measures and that's what the lighter boats do best. In a storm, on a lee shore, I'd rather be in a Hunter than a 50 ton, full keel tank. I'd have a much better chance of sailing out of there; and fast. Ron
Cherubini
Check out the Cherubini forum here at HOW. Many people consider the Cherubini designs to be the best boats Hunter ever built. This sentiment is shared by a lot of the people who work at Hunter. Just call and ask them.. I did! A Hunter/Cherubini 37 will run in the neighborhood of $45,000. They are hard to find, but well worth it. Look in the photo forum for all the pix of the designs. I think there is a link to a site with just Cherubini designed boats. Good Luck and enjoy the search... Ron
Check out the Cherubini forum here at HOW. Many people consider the Cherubini designs to be the best boats Hunter ever built. This sentiment is shared by a lot of the people who work at Hunter. Just call and ask them.. I did! A Hunter/Cherubini 37 will run in the neighborhood of $45,000. They are hard to find, but well worth it. Look in the photo forum for all the pix of the designs. I think there is a link to a site with just Cherubini designed boats. Good Luck and enjoy the search... Ron
Ron never gives up, . . .
you'd think he was on commission I agree with him since I also sail an H37C. But there is a 37 Legend for sale in our marina and it is classy boat, and fast. I guess I would suggest reading the post about "Tradewind Sailing..." in the "Big Boat" forum. As Ron points out, heavy and slow is not always safe.
you'd think he was on commission
I agree with him since I also sail an H37C. But there is a 37 Legend for sale in our marina and it is classy boat, and fast. I guess I would suggest reading the post about "Tradewind Sailing..." in the "Big Boat" forum. As Ron points out, heavy and slow is not always safe.Tough Boat
I bought a 1988 Legend 37 three years ago, and this is one tough boat. Yes, you do have to reef earlier, but the mainsail is HUGE on this boat (the size of a Swan 44 main). I sail Buzzards bay and the Cape and islands (Steep chop and alot of wind), the boat is tight, no pounding or other noises. With a few modifications I would take this boat almost anywhere (in fact I will do the Marion to Bermuda race sometime). She is also fast with a base PHRF of 105, I did a "pratice race" with this boat with a crew of me, my wife, 5 year old son and a dog and came in second (beat a H376 by 15 minutes). I do believe that hunter built some of their best boats between 1983 and 1995 (especially the late 80's legend series). This boat is roomy, fast, easy to sail and as safe as any C&C, Oday,Catalina, Tarten, etc...Note that I have also owned a H27--4years, H31-13 years (fast but bumpy ride) and I am an experianced racer. Another reason I bought this boat is looks, still very modern and it has very small ports/openings for saftey in big seas, the large greenhouses on alot of newer boats are accidents waiting to happen. I looked at alot of boats in this size range, and the only other boat I would have bought would have been a Beneteau First 375 (1986 to 89 model) solidly built 80's boat. Good luck, LAS
I bought a 1988 Legend 37 three years ago, and this is one tough boat. Yes, you do have to reef earlier, but the mainsail is HUGE on this boat (the size of a Swan 44 main). I sail Buzzards bay and the Cape and islands (Steep chop and alot of wind), the boat is tight, no pounding or other noises. With a few modifications I would take this boat almost anywhere (in fact I will do the Marion to Bermuda race sometime). She is also fast with a base PHRF of 105, I did a "pratice race" with this boat with a crew of me, my wife, 5 year old son and a dog and came in second (beat a H376 by 15 minutes). I do believe that hunter built some of their best boats between 1983 and 1995 (especially the late 80's legend series). This boat is roomy, fast, easy to sail and as safe as any C&C, Oday,Catalina, Tarten, etc...Note that I have also owned a H27--4years, H31-13 years (fast but bumpy ride) and I am an experianced racer. Another reason I bought this boat is looks, still very modern and it has very small ports/openings for saftey in big seas, the large greenhouses on alot of newer boats are accidents waiting to happen. I looked at alot of boats in this size range, and the only other boat I would have bought would have been a Beneteau First 375 (1986 to 89 model) solidly built 80's boat. Good luck, LAS
SA/D
If you want to know how stiff or tender a boat is, check out its sail area to displacement ratio. Boats with a ratio over 20 tend to be more tender in heavy winds, while boats under 20 tend to be more stiff. A Hunter 380 has a SA/D of 22.3, which I believe is the same as the boats it replaced. A Hunter 410, which looks almost identical to a 380, has a SA/D of 19. (I'm comparing deep keel versions here.) Much stiffer, and yet not as fast in light air. Full-keeled cruising boats will be down in the 14-15 range (we call them "lead mines") while some ultra-light racing boats will be up around 24-25. To some cruisers, Hunters seem very tender, and to some racers, Hunters seem stiff and heavy. Best way to cut through all the subjectivity is to look at the numbers.
If you want to know how stiff or tender a boat is, check out its sail area to displacement ratio. Boats with a ratio over 20 tend to be more tender in heavy winds, while boats under 20 tend to be more stiff. A Hunter 380 has a SA/D of 22.3, which I believe is the same as the boats it replaced. A Hunter 410, which looks almost identical to a 380, has a SA/D of 19. (I'm comparing deep keel versions here.) Much stiffer, and yet not as fast in light air. Full-keeled cruising boats will be down in the 14-15 range (we call them "lead mines") while some ultra-light racing boats will be up around 24-25. To some cruisers, Hunters seem very tender, and to some racers, Hunters seem stiff and heavy. Best way to cut through all the subjectivity is to look at the numbers.
37 of 90' is not recent for Hunters..
..and many owners would preffer them for that..as they are much changed on later models in many aspects. As a 29.5 owner of 95' it is a wonderfull boat for coastal-family-weekend-protected waters sailings , to be sailed in 'controled' conditions; and with a "Point of no return" angle of 115 degrees and 4 feet draft , I wouldn't strech too much this envelope (however I did several time 380 miles offshore legs-190 each in open waters in varying weather conditions). However very few , probably less than 10% sailors/sailboats do 'real' offshore/ocean sailing, regardless the boat size and make. For real offshore sailing there are boats made accordingly ,-and priced accordingly- for continuous pounding in severe conditions fo days(for example, bulkheads glassed to hull and not slided in slots of inner moldings) and rigs with safety margins ( and more stays ,on all sides , so one broken stay won't bring down the lot, and mostly keel stepped masts, just to name 2 of many differences). Hunter , along with most mass-production GRP boats , are not made along these design features. Regarding racing , altough here and there Hunter do participate or win occasionally races ( and 'occasionally' do succesfully offshore sailing), I think the B&R rig( which personally I think Hunter will replace with a 'regular' one in not so far future..) restricts racing as it limits reaching and downwind legs , and small genoa limits winward legs in weak winds. How many has seen on racing arena- both coastal and offshore-Hunter flotillas or one design racing or match racing ? I follow racing in many sailing magazine both US and international , but haven't noticed an impact by Hunter. Again , the average sailor ,who might want to 'get there' fast , can do that with a Hunter, if not restricted to specific downwind 'legs'as in racing.
..and many owners would preffer them for that..as they are much changed on later models in many aspects. As a 29.5 owner of 95' it is a wonderfull boat for coastal-family-weekend-protected waters sailings , to be sailed in 'controled' conditions; and with a "Point of no return" angle of 115 degrees and 4 feet draft , I wouldn't strech too much this envelope (however I did several time 380 miles offshore legs-190 each in open waters in varying weather conditions). However very few , probably less than 10% sailors/sailboats do 'real' offshore/ocean sailing, regardless the boat size and make. For real offshore sailing there are boats made accordingly ,-and priced accordingly- for continuous pounding in severe conditions fo days(for example, bulkheads glassed to hull and not slided in slots of inner moldings) and rigs with safety margins ( and more stays ,on all sides , so one broken stay won't bring down the lot, and mostly keel stepped masts, just to name 2 of many differences). Hunter , along with most mass-production GRP boats , are not made along these design features. Regarding racing , altough here and there Hunter do participate or win occasionally races ( and 'occasionally' do succesfully offshore sailing), I think the B&R rig( which personally I think Hunter will replace with a 'regular' one in not so far future..) restricts racing as it limits reaching and downwind legs , and small genoa limits winward legs in weak winds. How many has seen on racing arena- both coastal and offshore-Hunter flotillas or one design racing or match racing ? I follow racing in many sailing magazine both US and international , but haven't noticed an impact by Hunter. Again , the average sailor ,who might want to 'get there' fast , can do that with a Hunter, if not restricted to specific downwind 'legs'as in racing.
92 33.5 Single handed through 40kt gale
I just returned from a weekend on the Cape (60kt trip) doing a single-handed night sail through a strong gale. 6-12 ft seas (on the beam)with 25-40 kts wind (with sustained wind at 32kts). This is the strongest weather I've ever had her in over the past 7 years of ownership and I was surprised by how well she handled it. Even though she has a fairly flat bottom the trick to taking on pounding seas is to keep her heeled over just enough. I had one reef in the main with no head sail. She sailed great even allowing me to balance the helm for 10-15 minutes at a time to go below and get warm (Mr. Auto pilot decided to pack it in for the season)! At times I could have put the jib out but since it was dark, wet, and blowing I decided to keep things very simple. At one point I did have a situation with my trailing inflatable turning over and dragging so I had to stop the boat by lowering the main and winch the bloody thing in (that's a good lesson on what to aviod in heavy weather). She lay a-hull to the sea very nicely allowing me to get on with it without much bother. 5-6 kts average COG. She remained nice and dry below except for a small leak I have at the anchor locker (and will be 5200ed this winter). I guess the key thing is to know your own sailing skills and your boat.
I just returned from a weekend on the Cape (60kt trip) doing a single-handed night sail through a strong gale. 6-12 ft seas (on the beam)with 25-40 kts wind (with sustained wind at 32kts). This is the strongest weather I've ever had her in over the past 7 years of ownership and I was surprised by how well she handled it. Even though she has a fairly flat bottom the trick to taking on pounding seas is to keep her heeled over just enough. I had one reef in the main with no head sail. She sailed great even allowing me to balance the helm for 10-15 minutes at a time to go below and get warm (Mr. Auto pilot decided to pack it in for the season)! At times I could have put the jib out but since it was dark, wet, and blowing I decided to keep things very simple. At one point I did have a situation with my trailing inflatable turning over and dragging so I had to stop the boat by lowering the main and winch the bloody thing in (that's a good lesson on what to aviod in heavy weather). She lay a-hull to the sea very nicely allowing me to get on with it without much bother. 5-6 kts average COG. She remained nice and dry below except for a small leak I have at the anchor locker (and will be 5200ed this winter). I guess the key thing is to know your own sailing skills and your boat.
No boat is stable .. to a beginner.
Having had 6 sailboats in the past 6 years.. No boat is stable unless if you sail with too much sail.. I have noticed that rentals tend to have shortened sails.. Owners tend to have as much sail as they can possibly get.. Reef points exist not just for gales, but as a normal course of change.. Problem is that beginners think that no matter what the wind.. okay not to reef. Reality is that each boat has a proper tradeoff between sail area and wind. My H34 has a lot of sail area.. Great for still days in Texas.. At about 15-18 knots, I must reef.. At 3-15 knots... I want all that area. It is all relative to the conditions. The 34 is called tender because it has great sail area for light air.. In San Francisco.. maybe too much.. In Texas on most days I wish that I had more sail area.. You can always go to a beamier boat.. such as a Catalina.. Exceptionally stable.. not too nimble.. Sadly, there is no perfect boat for all conditions. I own a Hunter 34 and a J 22. Good sailing.
Having had 6 sailboats in the past 6 years.. No boat is stable unless if you sail with too much sail.. I have noticed that rentals tend to have shortened sails.. Owners tend to have as much sail as they can possibly get.. Reef points exist not just for gales, but as a normal course of change.. Problem is that beginners think that no matter what the wind.. okay not to reef. Reality is that each boat has a proper tradeoff between sail area and wind. My H34 has a lot of sail area.. Great for still days in Texas.. At about 15-18 knots, I must reef.. At 3-15 knots... I want all that area. It is all relative to the conditions. The 34 is called tender because it has great sail area for light air.. In San Francisco.. maybe too much.. In Texas on most days I wish that I had more sail area.. You can always go to a beamier boat.. such as a Catalina.. Exceptionally stable.. not too nimble.. Sadly, there is no perfect boat for all conditions. I own a Hunter 34 and a J 22. Good sailing.
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