Inmast Furler Or Standard Mast???

[Deadline]

We sailed longer

The corollary to sailing MORE is sailing LONGER. In-mast furling adds ten years onto the sailing life expectancy of the skipper, whose wife is constantly worried he'll fall off the deck while wrestling the conventional main down for a reef or a storm. Less stress, physically as well as emotionally. Go for it.

But beware the older Selden masts were too chintzy, which led to jamming due to small spacing within. It's easy to unjam the thing, by simply playing with the continuous line as if it were a horse's reins. Trick is not to pull too tight, which leads to jamming.

 

[Bill1565]

There have been many discussions on this board and others. One of the resources that keeps coming up is this one

http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf

I'd follow Maine Sail's advice. If I could get one, I'd do it in a heartbeat! The ONLY "work" left on my boat is the darned mainsail cover!!!

Good luck.

Stu, Mary made a "sail pack" for our boat from a sail rite DVD. When combined with lazy jacks and canning wax on the sail slides the work in raising lowering is gone. Still slab reefs tho.

 

[knot smart]

hey guys, i first want to make it clear...im not scared..the passionate opinion and sometimes heated debate is percisely what i LOVE about these forums..lets face it, IMO, each of us only has our own personal and sometimes limited experiences to base a judgement on and the purpose of the forum is to hear other stories from more experienced sailors so when its time to open your wallet youre not throwing your money in the tiolet..

what ive learned thus far is..there are a lot of pro's and con's to inmast and there is a inboom option(never heard of this)

it comes down to econimics..ive been scrounging around the boatyards, if i can find a used mast for 2k..im taking it and dont care what it is..i call US SPAR, base price for a traditional is 4.7k and inmast closer to 6.5k..if i have to buy new, not sure which way illl go yet..

some of the guys made mention of the inboom option but didnt say why..ill assume you would have the same cons as the inmast ( possible jams, sail shape not as good) ..im thinking its the horizontal battons ??

guys, dont take it personal, its just someones opinion!! keep em coming!! im learning something here!!

jason

 

[knot smart]

What you plan to do with the boat should drive your choice in a replacement mast. Are you going to cruise??? Are you going to race??? Do you plan on having a full crew or sail short handed/solo??? If it is your intension to race the boat, then get a conventional rig and fancy laminated sails.

Just curious ... did the sails come with the boat or were they missing along with the wheel??

just cruise, gonna put the wife, 8yo son and dog onboard , kill the engine and crack a cold one

having said that, if im going some where, i wan to get where im going, but honestly it doesnt matter if i get there 15 min later..

still not sure if i can consider my wife "crew" ..shes very "girly" but when shes pasionate about something shes a bull in a china shop, hopefully i can harness that and teach her to sail..

no, no sails, no wheel..im pissed..i need to figure out what to do about the wheel..getting the wheel is easy...but now i need the piece for the autopilot..i hope i can buy just the piece and not have to get a whole other system

 

[gettinthere]

We did have some minor jamming issues until I started taking seriously the fact that you have to point direct to the wind to furl. I suspect others with jamming issues are due to operator error.

VERY regularly, while we're out FULL time, EVERY day, cruising; we see boats with conventional mainsails with them all bundled up inside their pack while we easily unfurl from the safety and comfort of our cockpit. We use our main much more than the average cruiser because it is an in-mast furl.

Very often we have fellow cruisers aboard and they quickly start to drool all over the deck checking out our in mast furler. Many cruisers are on older boats and doing the conversion is costly, so they are stuck with a conventional main. They all give the "if only"...

 

[Scott B]

6 seasons, out most weekends, 1 or 2 week trip each season, never had any problems.

 

[shemandr]

I'm not sure I even agree about a big loss in sail shaping ability with an In Mast vs. Conventional Main. You need to compare similar boats. Granted the main on my 356 is not as adjustable as a racing rig but then it isn't a racing boat. I think I can set sails about as well as a Catalina 34 with a Stac Pak, or a Beneteau. I do suffer from having effectively no vang but few cruising boats do much with the vang anyway. I have the main sheet, traveler (Which I use more than an average cruising boat does), halyard tension, and outhaul. The sail is in a luff groove. Yes, the mast is more wide and causes more wind drag. We don't have a backstay to adjust upper mast bend - but other cruising boats with "Tree trunk masts" don't get that much bend either. We would like to add forestay tension with the backstay but that's just a feature of the B&R rig and not the fault of the In Mast furling system.
I have vertical battens which do support the roach. BTW if you get vertical battens, investigate partial length battens. I used to have full length, which were a PITA. A very service oriented sailmaker at Sailor's Choice, worked out shortened battens and they are working much better. The batten's do not have to be full length.
I will admit that to some extent the set up of the main is all about the furling. But the notion that you can't control sail shape adequately isn't completely true.
We do race casually and will do fine against similar boats. If I were to become serious about racing, I would buy a racing jib, and after that a racing main which I would use only for races and use the In Mast for general sailing. Probably not going to bother 'though. It would be far better to buy a racing boat.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Probably don't want to bend an in-mast unless the top bearing is on some sort of swivel. you would be bending, or trying to bend the roller rod.

Also, does the sail rub against the slot? It would seem to have to with any chamber in the sail at all.

 

[Mikem]

Reminds me of the couple that chartered a sailboat for a week in the Caribbean and on the third night called the charter company questioning why the boat had only been furnished with two anchors for a seven day charter.

Likewise the RV rental industry is reluctant to rent travel trailers or motor homes with the 20 plus year proven "slide out" technology since it is one less thing to go wrong.

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw,

Probably due to the inexperience of crew with an in mast furling system. It's not just pulling a the furling line and the sail goes away. You have to tighten down on the boom, manage the outhaul sheet and keep a little wind in it so she rolls up tight. Once you master how to do it correctly, it's very easy. If you just try to furl it with the boom swinging in the breeze and the sail fluttering in the wind, your setting yourself up for problems. I have a 352, which I sail often and only had one problem since owning the boat since 2004, and it was due to operator error.

Rob, Good point. That's very likely in this case for sure. Lots of first timers using these systems on charter boats.

My personal option is that the complication and risk of failure is not worth the benefit. I would much rather spend the money on a full batten main with lazy jacks, a luff-track system, a stack pack, and an electric halyard winch. Better performing to boot.

Unlike furling headsails that have found almost universal acceptable with serious cruisers, I don't know a single serious cruiser that has a furling main.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Stu, Mary made a "sail pack" for our boat from a sail rite DVD. When combined with lazy jacks and canning wax on the sail slides the work in raising lowering is gone. Still slab reefs tho.

Bill & doggy (!),

Good point. The OP should know the basic options for regular mainsail systems. Sail pack or stack pack (Doyle's sailmaker name for it) is a good way to avoid the dreaded mainsail cover hassles. We have lazy jacks, some like Dutchman flaking systems. We also have double line slab reefing, and Harken batt cars on the luff/track.

So, the "work" I "complained" about simply is the mainsail cover itself. Our sail handling gear is just great.

 

[shemandr]

Also, does the sail rub against the slot? It would seem to have to with any chamber in the sail at all.

We do get some minor chafe on the main but I've had the main for 7 years and repair has not been required.
We don't bend the mast for previously stated reasons. But it was professional tuned and has some prebend. So yes it is probably out of column. It does not seem to affect the ease of rolling the sail up but I don't have a basis for comparison.
Most of the issues I previously had with the system were due to the full length vertical battens.

 

[deke]

My Catalina 310 has a furling genoa and main. Most of my sailing is single handed and my previous boats were traditional. I really appreciate the furlers. Look at my comments on cleaning the sails and you will find a post by me, Deke, about a problem with the furling as the luff rope had shrunk and caused some ripples and jammed the sail. I have to use more care now but can still furl most of the sail into the mast, leaving About 2 feet out on the boom.

 

[Scott B]

Unlike furling headsails that have found almost universal acceptable with serious cruisers, I don't know a single serious cruiser that has a furling main.

I would suggest you check the post above by gettinthere as they're currently in the Bahamas.

You can also check the posts and blog by Sequitur, they went from Vancouver to Florida the hard way around South America in a Hunter 49 with in-mast.

 

[Jackdaw]

I would suggest you check the post above by gettinthere as they're currently in the Bahamas.

You can also check the posts and blog by Sequitur, they went from Vancouver to Florida the hard way around South America in a Hunter 49 with in-mast.

I said I don't know any; that means personally. And I do know a lot of hard-core cruisers personally. They all have traditional mains. And somehow they manage to use them every time they go out. No disrespect to anyone but I don't consider going to the Bahamas from Florida (50-70 miles?) serious cruising.


I have heard of Sequitur and its rounding, that's impressive stuff. I'd be interested in how that works out longer term. Its clear that the gear gets better and better.

 

[Rich (P303)]

Jackdaw,

Probably due to the inexperience of crew with an in mast furling system. It's not just pulling a the furling line and the sail goes away. You have to tighten down on the boom, manage the outhaul sheet and keep a little wind in it so she rolls up tight. Once you master how to do it correctly, it's very easy. If you just try to furl it with the boom swinging in the breeze and the sail fluttering in the wind, your setting yourself up for problems. I have a 352, which I sail often and only had one problem since owning the boat since 2004, and it was due to operator error.

Yes quite right... the position of the boom is most important. You have er down past level... she'll bunch up at at the bottom... a tight wrap is important.

 

[Chef2sail]

We have a traditional full batten main with a Tides Strong Track. Do I sail less....Nope.... No problem raising it, no problem dropping it into EZ jacks deployed from the cockpit. Never worry about it jamming. Never worry about sail trim. Dont sail less because of it. Singlehand a lot with it. I like to keep it simple

Are in mast furlers less than. No....but they arent better than either. Is the sail shape worse. Yes but not by an amount that makes a difference to most sailing people do and may be outwieghed by their ease of deployment.

To each his own. Personally,,,not for me. Reason...I know when I want to drop the sail I dont ever have to hold my breath. Sail hangups happen in greater winds, just when you wnat to be able to drop it or furl it. If I ever went with this setup it would be boom furled as you can still drop it easily.