Inmast Furler Or Standard Mast???

[Rick I]

Nine seasons with one

Going into the ninth season of winter cruising with one. Only had it jam once and it was my fault. Getting sloppy, over confident, furling on any point of sail and the sail getting a bit baggy. (OEM Neil Pryde sails which are not the best) Furled it last season in 15 -20 knots, running. Just pulled it in, might have put a crease or two in it. After a week at anchor, set sail - or tried to. Jammed!! Had to go up the mast foot by foot or inch by inch and pull, pulll, pull. Finally got it out but had to go right to the top. I have learned my lesson. No more sloppy furling and new sails (Mack Sails) in a week's time.

 

[Mikem]

I have had four sailboats from 28' to 46', five if you count the work I do on my daughter's C-25. I have sailed more (the 46') because of the ease of the in-mast rig. I love the convenience and have had a few problems but I consider that a fair trade off for the convenience. And I was not without problems on the conventional rigs either, jammed or lost main halyard, blown out sail lug, luff rope fouling in the track, mainsail flogging as I dropped it singlehanding (no lazy jacks or dutchman system), ripped reef points, reef cringle pulling out. In other words, do not think that because you have a conventional rig you will be problem free. Whatever you get maintain it, understand its capabilities and limitations, when there are problems adapt and over come but above all just enjoy sailing.

 

[windward54]

Our current boat has an inmast furler, and although I had concerns when I bought the boat, it has proven to be great. I don't race, but the lack of battens didn't make that much of a difference.

One word of advice that I give is to have the seller or his rep spend time going over the proper use of the furler. On our sea trial, I spent more time on learning the ins and outs (pun intended) of the main furler then I did on any other single system. It was well worth the effort, as I have never had a jam.

 

[Solstice]

Always the scare tactics...:neutral: These SAME scare tactics were employed back when roller furling head sails first hit the market. Today there are folks like John Harries who sails his vessel in high latitudes with over 100k nm on his roller furlers. If you had listened to the same rhetoric back in the 70's these would have failed him the minute he left the dock.

We owned a boat with in-mast furler. We NEVER, EVER had even a hint of a jam and NEVER EVER had a single problem. We LOVED it. We also SAILED MORE !!!!!!!!!!!


WE SAILED MORE...

Think about that...... In little to no wind we could deploy the main at the hint of a puff and be sailing in about 12 seconds. If the wind again died we'd put it away in about 12 seconds... With our full batten main we just opt to keep the iron genny going until we have enough wind to keep the main up.

When single handing, as I do multiple times per week, the furling main was a god send. As it is now I often sail under the 150% genny only because of the extra time involved in depolying the main and putting it away. I can be on the boat and off the mooring sailing in under 3 minutes by sailing with just the head sail. If I add the full batten main to that equation I lose an extra 20-25 minutes of actual SAILING time... With the furling main that was never an issue and my time spent for hour or two "sneak off sails" was maximized..

We had a wing keel Catalina 310, with in-mast, and a fixed three blade prop. We regularly used to dust our sister ship who had a fin, full batten main and a folding prop. If you focus on how YOU sail, not the loss of roach or other "excuses" you will become a better sailor.... If you consistently blame your speed under sail on things like props, sails, in-mast furling or other things you'll never become a better sailor.

Even Dodge Morgan had an in-mast furler on his private sailboat, a 54' Little Harbor. This is a guy who set the solo round the world record and who then chose in-mast furling for his personal sailboat...

On our current boat we now have a full batten main (actually a 2+2) but I would go back to a furling main in 2 seconds. Personally I would prefer a boom furler, due to the ability to have battens, but would not be opposed to another boat with an in-mast main. It was one of the best features of our Catalina 310....

Like anything when used PROPERLY they are highly reliable. I have one customer with a 30 year old Hood system that has never had a single hiccup. He loves it.

All I am saying is that if you find a mast with the right section and length for your boat don't not buy it if it is in-mast. They work well and have many benefits except of course to those who've never used them....

As usual, Maine Sail articulated this perfectly. I recently bought a new boat that came standard with a Selden In Mast furler with Doyle sails that have vertical battens. I almost didn't buy the boat because I was caught up in the negative stuff out there regarding this setup. I've always had full battened mains with either Dutchman or lazy jack systems.
Although I would have preferred an in-boom setup, I just couldn't justify the cost because the rig was already in New England and it would have had to be shipped back etc. I have absolutely no regrets! Just like the early days of roller furling headsails, the technology has come a long way.
The biggest concern is usually a jamming situation which relates to safety--the fact is the sail is most likely to jam when trying to unfurl as opposed to reef. Never had a problem, and don't expect to. With split backstays and vertical battens, I've only lost about 8% of my roach--a small trade off for the ease and therefore likelihood of actually hoisting the main when winds are light. Finally, it's not just the production boats that are shipping these as standard, but if you look at Hinckley and other high end manufacurers, they are also offering these as the preferred set up.

 

[Bill Roosa]

As a sailor who goes out in most any weather i prefer to not be on the bleeding edge of technology. I think the word is Luddite.
I do appreciate all youall that are proofing the technology though.
Also, the 5'nothing First Mate can deploy our old sail track, horizontal batten 63 foot luft main in about 20 seconds.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Why call personal opinion and observation "scare" tactics?

It's quite apparent here that many folks prefer traditional main sails for valid reasons and expressed them as such which clearly are not intended to scare someone away. This forum is excellent at eliciting diverse views on a range of subjects including this and hope no one would ever be reluctant to express a view for fear of being criticized for it.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Don! you ignorant sot
Be afraid, be very afraid, this kind of "untested, dangerous, and radical technology is, well untested dangerous and radical.
any sensible sailor would avoid it at all costs........

There, I got personal defamation, "real" scare tactics, and a bold unfounded acquisition (with my whole face hanging out) in 4 lines.

So we can all move on now.

 

[Maine Sail]

Why call personal opinion and observation "scare" tactics?

Because that is my "opinion" of many of the posts in this thread.

It's quite apparent here that many folks prefer traditional main sails for valid reasons and expressed them as such which clearly are not intended to scare someone away.

Not intended to scare away...... Let's review....

I never met a person with an in-mast furler that never had problems with it/them

Funny most I have met with them like them and don't have problems.... I don't even currently own one and still would go back to one because it proved to be a very, very reliable system. Nearly everyone in this thread, who owns them, likes them, and they don't seem to have the problems purported by some....

I never had problems with mine but of course you and I have technically not met so I can't say your statement is not true. IMHO though yes, a scare tactic...

bendy luft makes the sail hard to shape

Never had ANY issues with shaping our furling main.... Scare tactic? Yes, IMHO....

compromised mast due to a slot going all the way up

This post actually goes so far as to insinuate the mast is "compromised".... Completely untrue. The mast sections are specifically extruded and designed to be as strong as any other. Scare tactic? Yes, IMHO....

In-mast furling sail IMHO is bad idea

Scare tactic? Without any supportive data or factual reasons stated as to why? Yes, IMHO....

same boat , you'll loose 20-30% in speed

Again completely usupported... Anyone losing 20-30% on the same boat with furling main vs. standard is doing something wrong..... Scare tactic? Yes, IMHO...

half the time I've seen them, they were trouble

Scare tactic? Without support as to exactly what those "half the time they were trouble" issues were then, yes, IMHO....

My OPINION, like yours, I shared and I feel and my opinion IS that there are "scare tactics" being used in this thread....

"Sky is falling"/Chicken Little stories are not new to sailing forums. Just look at the Hunter bashing threads vs. the lack of "failures" claimed by those using "scare tactics"... These tactics are used to slam a product despite many of the folks slamming the technology who have zero experience with it or have never used it...

I've used them extensively, many of my customers have used them extensively, and none of the horror stories are the norm.

There are pro's and con's to each main system but when you don't have a spar, and are in need of one like the OP, I feel (MY OPINION), it is bad form to scare someone away from the proverbial needle in the hay stack as finding a spar for this boat may turn out to be.
If all he finds in an in-mast furling spar I think, (MY OPINION) he should at least consider it... Sadly based on his second post after yours it appears he was already "scared away"...

 

[Bill Roosa]

Well compromised is probably not warranted, I'll concede that. But they certainly have to be more heavily made so I'm thinking you would have more weight aloft.
The bendy luft does make it harder to shape, just like a jib. One of my least liked features of mounting a sail on a cable/rod.
My engineer sense tells me that supporting something as big as a main on only two supports is placing highly stressed components on a critical item what you would not want to be without in a pinch.
I'm a follower of Mr. Murphy's philosophy of "If it can go wrong it will go wrong and probably at the worst possible time"

 

[Sailm8]

I have had both a furling main and traditional. I have had much more trouble with the traditional: Broken slug jammed the sail up, 2 "lost" Halyards up the mast and countless times covering a sail on a bouncing deck. I'm older now and avoid exposing myself to conditions where I might shorten my sailing career due to injury. I figure that my furling main will add years of safer sailing to my "career".

This discussion is in the same category as GPS vs sexton, best anchor, paper vs electronic charts and what makes a bluewater boat. Just because someone had a bad experience a time or two is not enough evidence to condemn the technology.

So far as speed goes, that's a phony issue unless maybe you are match racing. When our club cruises as a group the boats are of all sizes and types. Some get in first, and some get in about 30 minutes later. Somehow we all seem to make happy hour.

 

[Rob2435]

I have one as well and as long as you furl it correctly you won't have any problems, the key is to furl it correctly!

 

[Rich (P303)]

I have an after market Selden on mine. Love it... sacrifices a little performance. Just need to pay attention when you role her up. I wouldn't purchase another boat without one.

 

[MSN-Travelers]

I have one as well and as long as you furl it correctly you won't have any problems, the key is to furl it correctly!

As another 352 owner with an in-mast furling main ... I have the same response.

I have never heard of anybody having the system "jam" when furling. A sloppy, loose furl can lead to a jam when deploying the sail and then it will have been a self-inflicted problem.

The only truth that can be said is the in-mast furling main will have slightly less sail area than the conventional main on the same boat. The in-mast furling main normally doesn't have a roach to it. And hard core racers find it difficult to get that perfect sail shape and it drives them nuts to loose that 1 or 2 tenths of a knot in speed.

What you plan to do with the boat should drive your choice in a replacement mast. Are you going to cruise??? Are you going to race??? Do you plan on having a full crew or sail short handed/solo??? If it is your intension to race the boat, then get a conventional rig and fancy laminated sails.

Just curious ... did the sails come with the boat or were they missing along with the wheel??

 

[fox islander]

...if you can find a mast with the furler get it...resale value alone. Although I dont have one on my current boat, the next boat will. (b-t-w, I have the same problem with J's)

 

[Stu Jackson]

There have been many discussions on this board and others. One of the resources that keeps coming up is this one

http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf

I'd follow Maine Sail's advice. If I could get one, I'd do it in a heartbeat! The ONLY "work" left on my boat is the darned mainsail cover!!!

Good luck.

 

[CarlN]

Racing boats have large (not to mention often young and strong) crews who can reef (and shake out a reef) as often as the skipper wants.

If it's just you and your wife, it's a whole lot more likely that you'll reef at the first sign of being overpowered if you have in-mast furling - and always from the safety of the cockpit.

 

[Jackdaw]

Just came off a nine day charter in the BVI on a Juneau 43 that had one- total piece of crap. Nice when it works- previous charter had torn the sail by yanking too hard on the out haul when the sail has been unevenly creased on a previous furl- hard to get a good sail shape, ( lack of battens) and if it gets stuck out in a good blow, you're in difficulty. Easy to just crank out a little bit for balance in heavy winds, but I know I'd never want to own one.

It's very telling that both The Moorings and Sunsail (the two largest chartering companies) have both fully stopped spec'ing new boats with in-mast furlers. And this from companies that don't own boats for more than 3 years.

 

[Mikem]

Might have more to do with cost containment rather than problems with the system...but for the real answer you'd have to ask them why.

 

[Jackdaw]

Might have more to do with cost containment rather than problems with the system...but for the real answer you'd have to ask them why.

I did. Reliability. FWIW, they don't care about price. The boats are privately owned and put into charter service under their control. They just care about operational cost.

 

[Rob2435]

Jackdaw,

Probably due to the inexperience of crew with an in mast furling system. It's not just pulling a the furling line and the sail goes away. You have to tighten down on the boom, manage the outhaul sheet and keep a little wind in it so she rolls up tight. Once you master how to do it correctly, it's very easy. If you just try to furl it with the boom swinging in the breeze and the sail fluttering in the wind, your setting yourself up for problems. I have a 352, which I sail often and only had one problem since owning the boat since 2004, and it was due to operator error.