I have a question that maybe someone can shed some light on. Why is it that to be counted as a legal PFD the inflatables need to be on if boarded? It seems as if they are no different than any other PFD when not actually on your body. Is it perhaps a way to start getting us used to the idea of ALWAYS having to wear them when on the boat. Heck a guy at our marina was ticketed by the DNR for not having enough PFD's for everyone on the boat while tied up to his dock. Just wondering what others think about it.
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Type 5 PFD
Any Type 5 PFD must be worn to be considered useable, the reaon being as Jim said, their design is only effective when worn. Since you mention it, it is not illegal to have more people than PFDs while not underway (i.e., at the dock). What DNR thinks otherwise?
Any Type 5 PFD must be worn to be considered useable, the reaon being as Jim said, their design is only effective when worn. Since you mention it, it is not illegal to have more people than PFDs while not underway (i.e., at the dock). What DNR thinks otherwise?
Doesn't Make Sense To Me Either
Maybe I just wear mine more often, but it seems to me that either the vest or waist pack inflatables are easier to put on than the non-inflatables. It may well be as Jim has pointed out that the reg is geared to guests rather than skippers and crew. The expectation being that non-boaters would be more familiar with stock lifevests than inflatables. Or, just good lobbying on the part of the stock-vest manufacturers *o RD
Maybe I just wear mine more often, but it seems to me that either the vest or waist pack inflatables are easier to put on than the non-inflatables. It may well be as Jim has pointed out that the reg is geared to guests rather than skippers and crew. The expectation being that non-boaters would be more familiar with stock lifevests than inflatables. Or, just good lobbying on the part of the stock-vest manufacturers *o RD
I usually have enough, anyway
In addition to my two inflatables (always at hand, I also keep 6 others (non-inflatable, horse-collar type)on board (and reachable) because my boat has a sleeping capacity of 8. We seldom have more than 4 people aboard, so we are covered. Thanks for the inflatable info - I didn't know!
In addition to my two inflatables (always at hand, I also keep 6 others (non-inflatable, horse-collar type)on board (and reachable) because my boat has a sleeping capacity of 8. We seldom have more than 4 people aboard, so we are covered. Thanks for the inflatable info - I didn't know!
Good Observations
One other thing to consider is that an inflatible does not float til inflated and thus, does not qualify as a good "throw" in a MOB situation. Remember cushions and "life rings" are good, but an uninflated "object" won't do much good, especially, as Rick pointed out, for the uninitiated.
One other thing to consider is that an inflatible does not float til inflated and thus, does not qualify as a good "throw" in a MOB situation. Remember cushions and "life rings" are good, but an uninflated "object" won't do much good, especially, as Rick pointed out, for the uninitiated.
I think most of us are aware
that inflatable Type V PFDs are only counted as inventory when worn, although I too have wondered at the reasoning behind it...after all, isn't a Lifesling a Type V? Or is it a Type IV, same as a cushion style? The big question here, to me at least, is the rationale behind ticketing for PFD count when the vessel is at the dock. I thought that the PFD rules only kicked in when under way or anchored away from the dock. I could look it up, of course, but I'm too lazy today! It's snowing here...
that inflatable Type V PFDs are only counted as inventory when worn, although I too have wondered at the reasoning behind it...after all, isn't a Lifesling a Type V? Or is it a Type IV, same as a cushion style? The big question here, to me at least, is the rationale behind ticketing for PFD count when the vessel is at the dock. I thought that the PFD rules only kicked in when under way or anchored away from the dock. I could look it up, of course, but I'm too lazy today! It's snowing here...
I'd be inclined to take it to the judge.
Years ago I worked in the oil field and had to carry two types of insurance. One was "longshoreman's" insurance for when we were working on boats tied to the dock. I also was required to carry maritime insurance, just in case the skipper untied from the dock - even for a moment. Point being: If we were tied to the dock, we were a part of the dock and therefore, "longSHOREmen". If we untied, we were suddenly SAILORS and subject to "maritime" rules. For what it's worth.
Years ago I worked in the oil field and had to carry two types of insurance. One was "longshoreman's" insurance for when we were working on boats tied to the dock. I also was required to carry maritime insurance, just in case the skipper untied from the dock - even for a moment. Point being: If we were tied to the dock, we were a part of the dock and therefore, "longSHOREmen". If we untied, we were suddenly SAILORS and subject to "maritime" rules. For what it's worth.
On Board vs. Underway?
The only language for Michigan I found is "All vessels must be equipped with a personal flotation device for each person on board". Also: "In addition to the above requirements, one Type IV USCG—approved PFD must be on board vessels 16 feet or longer and readily accessible." Nothing in the language about deferring to the operators opinion. Law is law. You go along to get along.
The only language for Michigan I found is "All vessels must be equipped with a personal flotation device for each person on board". Also: "In addition to the above requirements, one Type IV USCG—approved PFD must be on board vessels 16 feet or longer and readily accessible." Nothing in the language about deferring to the operators opinion. Law is law. You go along to get along.
Is it not a case of attitude attitude by the CG?
For years the rest of the world approved inflatable PFDs. The USCG were under pressure to approve these but were resistant to the idea. I arrived in Marblehead for the Star Class worlds in 1981 with one and we needed special dispensation to carry it as a PFD. This was granted on the basis that it was approved in most other countries where the class sailed. In the USA the leisure sector argued that an inflatable PFD was MUCH more likely to be worn continuously if it were a comfortable, easy to move around in, inflatable type rather than a semi rigid one and so would be safer overall. Okay says USCG if they are so easy to wear then wear them. For info the Royal Ocean Racing Club - which has approved these items for many years - has a time limit in which all crew members have to go below, and appear wearing their PFDs. From memory I recall this to be two minutes and the scrutinizer shouts for the lifejackets to be worn and if the crew are not assembled with their PFDs on and buckled up within the allotted time then the yacht does not race. BTW two minutes is somewhat quicker than the time it takes for a yacht to sink unless run down.
For years the rest of the world approved inflatable PFDs. The USCG were under pressure to approve these but were resistant to the idea. I arrived in Marblehead for the Star Class worlds in 1981 with one and we needed special dispensation to carry it as a PFD. This was granted on the basis that it was approved in most other countries where the class sailed. In the USA the leisure sector argued that an inflatable PFD was MUCH more likely to be worn continuously if it were a comfortable, easy to move around in, inflatable type rather than a semi rigid one and so would be safer overall. Okay says USCG if they are so easy to wear then wear them. For info the Royal Ocean Racing Club - which has approved these items for many years - has a time limit in which all crew members have to go below, and appear wearing their PFDs. From memory I recall this to be two minutes and the scrutinizer shouts for the lifejackets to be worn and if the crew are not assembled with their PFDs on and buckled up within the allotted time then the yacht does not race. BTW two minutes is somewhat quicker than the time it takes for a yacht to sink unless run down.
see the judge
My point is simply that if I had THAT ticket, I'd be inclined to go to court and present my case before a judge, rather than just pay a fine. My defense would be that as an entity tied to the dock, I was a part of the dock and not required to fulfil the same requirements as if I were out away from the dock (eg. bow and/or stern lights, or anchor lights, etc.). I do not nor would I, argue the wisdom of wearing a pfd and particularly so if it were a child on the dock or anywhere near the water. My point would be that the officer has stretched the provision of the law as to lose the intent of the law. It would be something like: 1. Does one have to don the PFD in the parking lot? 2. Is it required on the walkway to the slip? 3. Is it required to wear at the slip prior to stepping onto the boat? 4. Is it required only after boarding the boat? 5. How long after boarding is one allowed before one is in violation. For instance: If one has one foot on the dock and one foot on the boat sans pfd, is the individual in violation. If the violation occurrs only after the individual is completely boarded,is there any means by which an individual can board a boat without being in violation having not donned a pfd on the dock? Etc., etc.,etc. Again, I would not argue the wisdom of wearing the pfd. My only concern is: did this officer in his enthusiasm treat the law in the spirit in which it is intended to be administered? I've never found it a bad thing to present my case before a judge in a reasonible and dispassionate way. The Judge can set the standard by which the provision will be administered. Hope that cleared it up some.
My point is simply that if I had THAT ticket, I'd be inclined to go to court and present my case before a judge, rather than just pay a fine. My defense would be that as an entity tied to the dock, I was a part of the dock and not required to fulfil the same requirements as if I were out away from the dock (eg. bow and/or stern lights, or anchor lights, etc.). I do not nor would I, argue the wisdom of wearing a pfd and particularly so if it were a child on the dock or anywhere near the water. My point would be that the officer has stretched the provision of the law as to lose the intent of the law. It would be something like: 1. Does one have to don the PFD in the parking lot? 2. Is it required on the walkway to the slip? 3. Is it required to wear at the slip prior to stepping onto the boat? 4. Is it required only after boarding the boat? 5. How long after boarding is one allowed before one is in violation. For instance: If one has one foot on the dock and one foot on the boat sans pfd, is the individual in violation. If the violation occurrs only after the individual is completely boarded,is there any means by which an individual can board a boat without being in violation having not donned a pfd on the dock? Etc., etc.,etc. Again, I would not argue the wisdom of wearing the pfd. My only concern is: did this officer in his enthusiasm treat the law in the spirit in which it is intended to be administered? I've never found it a bad thing to present my case before a judge in a reasonible and dispassionate way. The Judge can set the standard by which the provision will be administered. Hope that cleared it up some.
Simple answer?
It's just plain stupid. If you can't put one of these on, you don't know how to put on a shirt!
It's just plain stupid. If you can't put one of these on, you don't know how to put on a shirt!
Stu, you are missing the point
you could only have seconds to get off the boat. Let’s say you only have time to grab your Inflatable PFD and jump into the water. Now try putting it on. It is NOT THAT EASY! These requirements make sense. I respectfully don't think this law is stupid. It just plain makes sense. The rules are the rules for good reason. I am not in favor of laws that mandate PDFs be worn at all time. I don't like to wear one. I have 6 standard PDF on board and two inflatable PFD. I plan to grab a standard PDF if the boat sinks inside. My wife and I wear the Inflatable PFD outside. Plus the Inflatable PFD has harness to clip in a tether.
you could only have seconds to get off the boat. Let’s say you only have time to grab your Inflatable PFD and jump into the water. Now try putting it on. It is NOT THAT EASY! These requirements make sense. I respectfully don't think this law is stupid. It just plain makes sense. The rules are the rules for good reason. I am not in favor of laws that mandate PDFs be worn at all time. I don't like to wear one. I have 6 standard PDF on board and two inflatable PFD. I plan to grab a standard PDF if the boat sinks inside. My wife and I wear the Inflatable PFD outside. Plus the Inflatable PFD has harness to clip in a tether.
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