I sure appreciate all the good feed back from everyone one on this sight and I have additional questions to my previous post regarding updating my charging system. My alternator is approximately 20 feet from my house bank and I am installing wiring for a 100 amp alternator. Do I size the wire for a 20 foot run (presuming that the alternator is grounded at the engine) or do I size for 40 foot run. This would put me at a #6 AWG or a #4 AWG. I would like to install a fuse between the start bank and the starter. I heard that this should be a “slow blow” fuse. Does anyone have any info where to get a “slow blow” type fuse and how I would size it for my 50 HP Yanmar? Also, does anyone know where I can purchase Anchor Marine wire in the Newport Beach/Long Beach Ca area? WM prices are killing me! Thanks....... Frank Malu Lani Legend 40.5
Increasing Alternator Size
- Thread starter Frank P
- Start date
- Status
A couple of things..
1) Your alt is grounded to the motor so 20 feet. 2) All you need is a good ANL type fuse block but to meet ABYC spec it needs to be within 7" of the battery. Don't know where you heard "slow blow" from but you need to size the fuse to your wires max amperage rating and nothing more. If you've over loaded the circuit you want it to blow before you begin melting stuff...! Slow or fast blow will be fine.. 3) ALL battery banks should have a fuse in the positive lead within 7" of the battery! 4) Don't limit your self to Ancor Products wire and consider both Berkshire and Cobra marine grade UL listed and tinned cable. I use Berkshire wire exclusively and it's about 50% less, sometimes more, than WM prices. Call Berkshire and ask for the reps contact information that covers your area and he will direct you to a Berkshire re-seller. 5) Make sure your existing belt can handle the load of a 100 amp alternator.. 6) If you have not already add a Link 10 or Xantrex XBM battery monitor BEFORE you upgrade your alternator! I think, like many do, you'll find your barely using the capacity your current alternator has and upgrading to a 100 amp alt may be over kill unless you have 450ah's of battery bank and regularly discharge to 50%. 7) The largest alternator I've ever had on a boat, in 30+ years, is a 90 amp and that fed a 450ah bank. Only once did I see the battery monitor showing output over 50 amps and that was on a 65% discharge. In short, the batteries decide what to accept for a charge current and it's NOT the regulator or alternator that decide how much to feed the batts..... Again, the BEST money you can spend is on a battery monitor. Study your use, and charging characteristics, for a month or so then decide which way you need to go with charging.. P.S. Our boat spent five years as a full time live aboard cruiser, on the hook, with only a 75 watt solar panel and a STOCK 55 amp alternator as charging sources... I think people can often over think charging...
1) Your alt is grounded to the motor so 20 feet. 2) All you need is a good ANL type fuse block but to meet ABYC spec it needs to be within 7" of the battery. Don't know where you heard "slow blow" from but you need to size the fuse to your wires max amperage rating and nothing more. If you've over loaded the circuit you want it to blow before you begin melting stuff...! Slow or fast blow will be fine.. 3) ALL battery banks should have a fuse in the positive lead within 7" of the battery! 4) Don't limit your self to Ancor Products wire and consider both Berkshire and Cobra marine grade UL listed and tinned cable. I use Berkshire wire exclusively and it's about 50% less, sometimes more, than WM prices. Call Berkshire and ask for the reps contact information that covers your area and he will direct you to a Berkshire re-seller. 5) Make sure your existing belt can handle the load of a 100 amp alternator.. 6) If you have not already add a Link 10 or Xantrex XBM battery monitor BEFORE you upgrade your alternator! I think, like many do, you'll find your barely using the capacity your current alternator has and upgrading to a 100 amp alt may be over kill unless you have 450ah's of battery bank and regularly discharge to 50%. 7) The largest alternator I've ever had on a boat, in 30+ years, is a 90 amp and that fed a 450ah bank. Only once did I see the battery monitor showing output over 50 amps and that was on a 65% discharge. In short, the batteries decide what to accept for a charge current and it's NOT the regulator or alternator that decide how much to feed the batts..... Again, the BEST money you can spend is on a battery monitor. Study your use, and charging characteristics, for a month or so then decide which way you need to go with charging.. P.S. Our boat spent five years as a full time live aboard cruiser, on the hook, with only a 75 watt solar panel and a STOCK 55 amp alternator as charging sources... I think people can often over think charging...
Bigger is Better
The smaller size (Larger Gauge #) will work but less efficiently. The larger size will give you less voltage drop and a larger circumference surface area to conduct current. Current actually travels on the surface of the wire which is why you use stranded instead of solid wire. The surface area is the sum of the surface area of all the strands. I have # 6 wire and my bank is less than 4 feet from my 124 amp alternator, But I have much larger wire to and from my inverter.
The smaller size (Larger Gauge #) will work but less efficiently. The larger size will give you less voltage drop and a larger circumference surface area to conduct current. Current actually travels on the surface of the wire which is why you use stranded instead of solid wire. The surface area is the sum of the surface area of all the strands. I have # 6 wire and my bank is less than 4 feet from my 124 amp alternator, But I have much larger wire to and from my inverter.
Similar project
Frank If you haven't read this link, it will give you lots of useful info including the type fuse and cables as well as a description why.
Frank If you haven't read this link, it will give you lots of useful info including the type fuse and cables as well as a description why.
Thanks!
This has definitely become a science project for me! I have 4 Trojan 125’s as house and one start battery. My boat is 1993 model with all OEM equipment. I am installing a True Charge 40, Echo-charge, proper fuses, Link10 and eventually a 100A alternator. I figured that since I will be running the Link10 leads I can run the new alternator lead as well (it is currently a #6 AWG). Normally I would not mind using the larger wire but the lead is long and somewhat difficult to run (not to mention expensive). I currently do most of my “away from the dock” charging with a Honda 2000. This summer I will track my power usage from the Link10 to verify where I am at on power usage. I read about the “slow blow” fuse in Nigel Caldwell’s book. Thanks for the input Gents Frank Malu Lani Legend 40.5
This has definitely become a science project for me! I have 4 Trojan 125’s as house and one start battery. My boat is 1993 model with all OEM equipment. I am installing a True Charge 40, Echo-charge, proper fuses, Link10 and eventually a 100A alternator. I figured that since I will be running the Link10 leads I can run the new alternator lead as well (it is currently a #6 AWG). Normally I would not mind using the larger wire but the lead is long and somewhat difficult to run (not to mention expensive). I currently do most of my “away from the dock” charging with a Honda 2000. This summer I will track my power usage from the Link10 to verify where I am at on power usage. I read about the “slow blow” fuse in Nigel Caldwell’s book. Thanks for the input Gents Frank Malu Lani Legend 40.5
On my boat the alternator output is connected to the battery side of the solenoi
that way the battery cable carries the alternator ouyput and there is no need for a long run from the alternator to the battery with a separate cable.
that way the battery cable carries the alternator ouyput and there is no need for a long run from the alternator to the battery with a separate cable.
Frank
If yoiur still with us, I'd like to compare notes on where you put/are putting the new stuff as we also have a 40.5. My Trojans are in the aft std cockpit locker as well as the Truecharge40 and inverter, all somewhat isolated by baffles so as to preclude corrosion from the battery gas. also, where do you store the Honda?
If yoiur still with us, I'd like to compare notes on where you put/are putting the new stuff as we also have a 40.5. My Trojans are in the aft std cockpit locker as well as the Truecharge40 and inverter, all somewhat isolated by baffles so as to preclude corrosion from the battery gas. also, where do you store the Honda?
Oh and by the way after re-reading MAIN SAIL's response
which is a ll good info, I am reminded of the alternator belt. When I installed my 124 amp alternator on my 35 HP YANMAR (which was the largest small frame alternator recommended by YANMAR because of the side load on the water pump bearings), I had to go to to double belts and have double pulleys made. There just wasn't enough contact area around the single alternator pulley to prevent a single belt from slipping, and the single belt fretted all over my engine compartment. For your Info I had a 750 AH bank (now only 630) and I have often seen over 125 amps on my 150 amp AC charger in my inverter, but I have never seen more than 100 amps from my alternator.
which is a ll good info, I am reminded of the alternator belt. When I installed my 124 amp alternator on my 35 HP YANMAR (which was the largest small frame alternator recommended by YANMAR because of the side load on the water pump bearings), I had to go to to double belts and have double pulleys made. There just wasn't enough contact area around the single alternator pulley to prevent a single belt from slipping, and the single belt fretted all over my engine compartment. For your Info I had a 750 AH bank (now only 630) and I have often seen over 125 amps on my 150 amp AC charger in my inverter, but I have never seen more than 100 amps from my alternator.
Agree with others
But might add one more thought. If you are planning on going to a 100 amp. alternator, you will more than likely have to go to a 2 belt system to pull it. Not sure, but I doubt the single V belt will handle a 100 amp system. And that could get rather expensive. For most applications, about 65 amps is all you can reliably pull with a single belt system. And go ahead and run it to the battery side of the solenoid and save a bunch of wire and a bunch of work. That is more than likely how it is wired up now.
But might add one more thought. If you are planning on going to a 100 amp. alternator, you will more than likely have to go to a 2 belt system to pull it. Not sure, but I doubt the single V belt will handle a 100 amp system. And that could get rather expensive. For most applications, about 65 amps is all you can reliably pull with a single belt system. And go ahead and run it to the battery side of the solenoid and save a bunch of wire and a bunch of work. That is more than likely how it is wired up now.
Ross; you must have a 1,2,both battery switch which is not the
currently recommended hookup. The preferred system is a single Battery Bank with an on/off switch, a battery combiner or isolater eliminater, with the charge and house load to and fro the house bank (Paukerts Equation establishes that a single bank is more efficient both ways). The start battery is then charged from the house bank and cannot be drained back to the house battery. Your arrangement under the preferred system would charge only the start battery. Additionally with the preferred system you might want to install a noise filter in the charging circuit to minimize alternator interference to your radios.
currently recommended hookup. The preferred system is a single Battery Bank with an on/off switch, a battery combiner or isolater eliminater, with the charge and house load to and fro the house bank (Paukerts Equation establishes that a single bank is more efficient both ways). The start battery is then charged from the house bank and cannot be drained back to the house battery. Your arrangement under the preferred system would charge only the start battery. Additionally with the preferred system you might want to install a noise filter in the charging circuit to minimize alternator interference to your radios.
Ross I don't blame you for not wanting to change but (2nd try)
you should know that if you charge both banks at once as is most often the case, the charge goes disproportionately to the most discharged bank. If that bank is weak the charge might not contribute much to the other and the bad one might not accept the charge. You could end up - up the creek. A single combined bank besides being twice the capacity and more efficient wears down more gradually, and will take an ever increasing charge at each recharge letting you know that they might be getting tired. Keep what you have but be cautious.
you should know that if you charge both banks at once as is most often the case, the charge goes disproportionately to the most discharged bank. If that bank is weak the charge might not contribute much to the other and the bad one might not accept the charge. You could end up - up the creek. A single combined bank besides being twice the capacity and more efficient wears down more gradually, and will take an ever increasing charge at each recharge letting you know that they might be getting tired. Keep what you have but be cautious.
Just Wondering
How much power loss is lost to these big alternators,anyone that has added one what difference have you noticed. Nick
How much power loss is lost to these big alternators,anyone that has added one what difference have you noticed. Nick
Now I have a question!
I've always "heard" that current runs through cable, while rf (like cable tv) runs onthe outside of the wire. I'm sure about the rf- in another life I made a meager living installing for a cable tv company. I've used solid wire on a few projects, and it was a royal pain, but I thought I had to (my house is wired with solid, too). I bow to your experience and knowledge- help me see the truth!
I've always "heard" that current runs through cable, while rf (like cable tv) runs onthe outside of the wire. I'm sure about the rf- in another life I made a meager living installing for a cable tv company. I've used solid wire on a few projects, and it was a royal pain, but I thought I had to (my house is wired with solid, too). I bow to your experience and knowledge- help me see the truth!
760 watts per horse power
thats about 60 amps at 12 volts. Plus a little for drive inefficiencies and wire loses. Just like in a car you can feel it when you turn on the AC. I only use about 5 hp for propulsion at cruising speed a lot more if I am in a hurry.
thats about 60 amps at 12 volts. Plus a little for drive inefficiencies and wire loses. Just like in a car you can feel it when you turn on the AC. I only use about 5 hp for propulsion at cruising speed a lot more if I am in a hurry.
Frank and Don...
Don: I store my Honda 2000 in the starboard cockpit locker (not the aft one). It JUST fits. Frank: I have a Balmar and three-stage regulator on my 1994 Legend 40.5 in Shoreline. If you would like to look over the installation, e-mail me through the owners' directory. Here is where I purchased marine tinned wire for my last project: http://stores.ebay.com/Gregs-Marine-Wire-Supply_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amewaQ3amesstQQtZkm
Don: I store my Honda 2000 in the starboard cockpit locker (not the aft one). It JUST fits. Frank: I have a Balmar and three-stage regulator on my 1994 Legend 40.5 in Shoreline. If you would like to look over the installation, e-mail me through the owners' directory. Here is where I purchased marine tinned wire for my last project: http://stores.ebay.com/Gregs-Marine-Wire-Supply_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amewaQ3amesstQQtZkm
TINCUP it runs on the outside
Solid wire is used because it is much cheaper and the current is pushed by much higher voltage.
Solid wire is used because it is much cheaper and the current is pushed by much higher voltage.
Separate ground from new alternator
and use of the 1-2-B switch. Frank, this text belwo the ***s is from a recent post where someone was asking about a combiner. But if you get through that part, read about the basic intent of what I wrote. Only YOU know how your boat is wired and where the alternator output now goes. You also have to determine how you want to wire your new alternator, but Maine Sail's right that a 100 A alternator will most likely only put out 50 A on a deeply discharged large (400+ ah) house bank because of battery acceptance. In most cases #2 wire is actually overkill. Many new alternator manufacturers suggest using separate grounds from their ground posts, back to your NDP, which eventually ends up at the engine anyway. You could use the grounded case or a separate wire, but if the aletrnator is not a grounded case you NEED to use a ground wire. We have a 100A on our M25 with a single 3/8" belt. The link is to the whole older thread. *********************** *********************** It all depends on how it's wired U wrote: "Even with the old fashioned way, if you change the switch to both after the engine is started, won't the charging source voltage overcome the flow of volts from the strong battery to the depleted battery? Also for you electrical experts, do I have the correct understanding of how a combiner works?" The old fashioned way? That's generally where the factory wired it this way: ONE measly wire from the alternator output to the C post (BOTH setting) on the 1-2-B switch, with a small wire between the alternator output and the starter. Why? Because it was the cheapest way to do it. One wire that served two purposes: to start it took the current through the wire FROM the batteries to the switch to the alternator through the small wire to the starter and then engine started. Once started, the flow of current reversed in the wire and went from the alternator output to the switch C post to the batteries, depending on which position the switch was in. [Some builders used two wires, one to the starter and one from the alternator, without the small wire between the alternator and starter. The downside was that these two wires still went to the C post, when the alternator output should have gone to the house bank, and the starter wires is really the only thing that needed to be on the C post. See more below.] That's why people had (HAD) to start their engines on BOTH, or risked shorting out their alternators if they started on the start bank and then switched the switch - if it's contacts were bad, the alternator output stopped and fried the diodes. Some folks started on their start bank, then only switch to their house banks when the engine was turned off. The downside here was that the house bank didn't get charged when the engine was running. OK if you've been plugged in all week, not so good if you've been on the hook and wanted to go to another anchorage. The 1-2-B switch served two purposes: it was the gatekeeper for where the alternator output went: 1, 2 or BOTH batteries; AND once the engine was off, it decided which battery bank was the source of power. Actually, when the engine was running it was doing both functions! A combiner works this way: it's a simple relay, whenever it sees a voltage higher than its set point, it closes allowing current to flow. It has nothing to do with the "resting voltage" of anything. It's on or off, closed or open, simply based on a setting. The easy way to think about it is, if there is a charge source available, that charge source is always higher than the even-full battery voltage of 12.8 V, so most combiners are set around 13.0 V or so. You plug your shorepower charger on, or run your engine and alternator and 14.2 V or 13.8 V or somewhere in between, shows up and the combiner closes, allowing juice to flow to the second bank. The reason smart electricians now suggest wiring ALL of your charging sources to the house bank is because that's where the input is required, because most of the time start banks (or emergency banks as discussed in another recent thread) are full anyway. Think about it: a 60 AH start bank, 30 AH usable -- the starting takes about 2 to 5 AH out of the start bank -- that's all -- glow plugs (for some) and start, is high amperage for an extremely short period of time. So, with all of the charging outputs going to the house bank, the combiner will send some juice to the start bank. One of the keys to understanding this is that it is much better to avoid the danged 1-2-B switch with charging sources COMPLETELY, and only use the C post of the 1-2-B switch for output from the batteries: i.e., power to the starter and power to the distribution panel FROM the batteries. Avoiding anything on the 1-2-B switch for wiring TO the batteries simplifies matters greatly and also avoids any problems with the switch messing up the alternator - you can move the switch all you want, even turn it off with the alternator running (!) because its output is going directly to the house bank. What a concept! The "charging source voltage" will overcome the drain of one battery to the other. However, there are two different scenarios here which most people tend to completely ignore or misunderstand. One scenario is this: been away from the boat all week, boat's been plugged in charging both banks. So, going to BOTH will have NO consequences. NONE. The batteries are charged, they're both just fine. Second scenario: been on the hook, start bank is almost fully charged, house bank isn't. Going to both will potentially drain the start into the house with dire consequences if left in BOTH too long without starting the engine right away. As I mentioned in another recent thread, you have to think about it based on the condition of the batteries as well as how you have the boat wired. A combiner is good for two equal sized house banks where they are switched daily (again when cruising, NOT when plugged in), or when one is retained for starting (a useless and wasteful approach in my mind - why have all those batteries sitting around doing nothing, besides, it reduces the life of the batteries). An echo charger is superior to a combiner when you have a larger house bank and a small start bank because the echo charger limits the amperage flow and avoids overcharging the start bank if you motor a lot. Alternatively, you could use a combiner and put a switch in the ground wire to the start bank and shut it off when motoring for long periods. The ACR is a combiner with improved technology to avoid spikes when the house bank is fully depleted. Pretty much the same thing, same purpose for all three. Theoretically, putting the switch on BOTH will do the same thing as a combiner to parallel the two banks if you have the alternator output wired to the house bank. BUT, and this is a BIG, HUGE "but", you again have to think about the WIRING. Most boat builders run #4 wires FROM batteries TO the 1-2-B switch. This is fine sizing for a meager OEM 55 amp alternator output which rarely gets anywhere near 20 amp output, and the total battery output rarely gets near that (when was the last time you ever had EVERY SINGLE ONE of your DC loads ON -- lights, fridge, electronics, stereo) add the DC loads all up they just don't get that high. So, with the alternator output gong to the C post, the #4 wires were being used for two purposes, in two different directions: alternator output to C post to batteries, and battery output to the switch and the DC panel for loads. Now, when a bigger alternator with external or internal regulation is installed, the alternator output gets tripled to 60 amps and the #4 wires are WOEFUL INADEQUATE (if the alternator output remains tied to the C post of the switch - you're just asking for trouble or undercharged batteries). That's yet another reason to rewire your alternator output to the house bank directly, and use either a combiner, echo charger, duo charge, ACR or a simple manual switch, to send power to recharge your start (or second) bank. The use of B on the 1-2-B switch, if the wiring and components are designed and installed correctly, should be a thing of the past, regardless of what kind of switches you have installed. We've redesigned our system, but did it retaining the 1-2-B switch very deliberately in lieu of buying new switches of any sort. The alternator output goes directly to the house bank, we use a combiner to the start bank with a switch in the ground leg to turn it off if we motor a lot, and the OEM #4 wires FROM the batteries TO the switch are just fine because they are ONLY used for battery OUTPUT to the C post: i.e., the DC panel and the starter wire to the starter. We never use the B switch position, can start the engine on the start bank position OR the house bank position, and can switch the switch when the engine is running with no fear of damaging anything. PS Ed, I also recommend changing your alternator output FROM the start bank through the ACR to from the alternator TO the house bank through the ACR to the start bank. Reason is described above, the start bank is almost always full, so why run that current through the ACR all the time? Same instructions came with the combiners (and Pathfinders) -- ALWAYS run the alternator output to the house bank.
and use of the 1-2-B switch. Frank, this text belwo the ***s is from a recent post where someone was asking about a combiner. But if you get through that part, read about the basic intent of what I wrote. Only YOU know how your boat is wired and where the alternator output now goes. You also have to determine how you want to wire your new alternator, but Maine Sail's right that a 100 A alternator will most likely only put out 50 A on a deeply discharged large (400+ ah) house bank because of battery acceptance. In most cases #2 wire is actually overkill. Many new alternator manufacturers suggest using separate grounds from their ground posts, back to your NDP, which eventually ends up at the engine anyway. You could use the grounded case or a separate wire, but if the aletrnator is not a grounded case you NEED to use a ground wire. We have a 100A on our M25 with a single 3/8" belt. The link is to the whole older thread. *********************** *********************** It all depends on how it's wired U wrote: "Even with the old fashioned way, if you change the switch to both after the engine is started, won't the charging source voltage overcome the flow of volts from the strong battery to the depleted battery? Also for you electrical experts, do I have the correct understanding of how a combiner works?" The old fashioned way? That's generally where the factory wired it this way: ONE measly wire from the alternator output to the C post (BOTH setting) on the 1-2-B switch, with a small wire between the alternator output and the starter. Why? Because it was the cheapest way to do it. One wire that served two purposes: to start it took the current through the wire FROM the batteries to the switch to the alternator through the small wire to the starter and then engine started. Once started, the flow of current reversed in the wire and went from the alternator output to the switch C post to the batteries, depending on which position the switch was in. [Some builders used two wires, one to the starter and one from the alternator, without the small wire between the alternator and starter. The downside was that these two wires still went to the C post, when the alternator output should have gone to the house bank, and the starter wires is really the only thing that needed to be on the C post. See more below.] That's why people had (HAD) to start their engines on BOTH, or risked shorting out their alternators if they started on the start bank and then switched the switch - if it's contacts were bad, the alternator output stopped and fried the diodes. Some folks started on their start bank, then only switch to their house banks when the engine was turned off. The downside here was that the house bank didn't get charged when the engine was running. OK if you've been plugged in all week, not so good if you've been on the hook and wanted to go to another anchorage. The 1-2-B switch served two purposes: it was the gatekeeper for where the alternator output went: 1, 2 or BOTH batteries; AND once the engine was off, it decided which battery bank was the source of power. Actually, when the engine was running it was doing both functions! A combiner works this way: it's a simple relay, whenever it sees a voltage higher than its set point, it closes allowing current to flow. It has nothing to do with the "resting voltage" of anything. It's on or off, closed or open, simply based on a setting. The easy way to think about it is, if there is a charge source available, that charge source is always higher than the even-full battery voltage of 12.8 V, so most combiners are set around 13.0 V or so. You plug your shorepower charger on, or run your engine and alternator and 14.2 V or 13.8 V or somewhere in between, shows up and the combiner closes, allowing juice to flow to the second bank. The reason smart electricians now suggest wiring ALL of your charging sources to the house bank is because that's where the input is required, because most of the time start banks (or emergency banks as discussed in another recent thread) are full anyway. Think about it: a 60 AH start bank, 30 AH usable -- the starting takes about 2 to 5 AH out of the start bank -- that's all -- glow plugs (for some) and start, is high amperage for an extremely short period of time. So, with all of the charging outputs going to the house bank, the combiner will send some juice to the start bank. One of the keys to understanding this is that it is much better to avoid the danged 1-2-B switch with charging sources COMPLETELY, and only use the C post of the 1-2-B switch for output from the batteries: i.e., power to the starter and power to the distribution panel FROM the batteries. Avoiding anything on the 1-2-B switch for wiring TO the batteries simplifies matters greatly and also avoids any problems with the switch messing up the alternator - you can move the switch all you want, even turn it off with the alternator running (!) because its output is going directly to the house bank. What a concept! The "charging source voltage" will overcome the drain of one battery to the other. However, there are two different scenarios here which most people tend to completely ignore or misunderstand. One scenario is this: been away from the boat all week, boat's been plugged in charging both banks. So, going to BOTH will have NO consequences. NONE. The batteries are charged, they're both just fine. Second scenario: been on the hook, start bank is almost fully charged, house bank isn't. Going to both will potentially drain the start into the house with dire consequences if left in BOTH too long without starting the engine right away. As I mentioned in another recent thread, you have to think about it based on the condition of the batteries as well as how you have the boat wired. A combiner is good for two equal sized house banks where they are switched daily (again when cruising, NOT when plugged in), or when one is retained for starting (a useless and wasteful approach in my mind - why have all those batteries sitting around doing nothing, besides, it reduces the life of the batteries). An echo charger is superior to a combiner when you have a larger house bank and a small start bank because the echo charger limits the amperage flow and avoids overcharging the start bank if you motor a lot. Alternatively, you could use a combiner and put a switch in the ground wire to the start bank and shut it off when motoring for long periods. The ACR is a combiner with improved technology to avoid spikes when the house bank is fully depleted. Pretty much the same thing, same purpose for all three. Theoretically, putting the switch on BOTH will do the same thing as a combiner to parallel the two banks if you have the alternator output wired to the house bank. BUT, and this is a BIG, HUGE "but", you again have to think about the WIRING. Most boat builders run #4 wires FROM batteries TO the 1-2-B switch. This is fine sizing for a meager OEM 55 amp alternator output which rarely gets anywhere near 20 amp output, and the total battery output rarely gets near that (when was the last time you ever had EVERY SINGLE ONE of your DC loads ON -- lights, fridge, electronics, stereo) add the DC loads all up they just don't get that high. So, with the alternator output gong to the C post, the #4 wires were being used for two purposes, in two different directions: alternator output to C post to batteries, and battery output to the switch and the DC panel for loads. Now, when a bigger alternator with external or internal regulation is installed, the alternator output gets tripled to 60 amps and the #4 wires are WOEFUL INADEQUATE (if the alternator output remains tied to the C post of the switch - you're just asking for trouble or undercharged batteries). That's yet another reason to rewire your alternator output to the house bank directly, and use either a combiner, echo charger, duo charge, ACR or a simple manual switch, to send power to recharge your start (or second) bank. The use of B on the 1-2-B switch, if the wiring and components are designed and installed correctly, should be a thing of the past, regardless of what kind of switches you have installed. We've redesigned our system, but did it retaining the 1-2-B switch very deliberately in lieu of buying new switches of any sort. The alternator output goes directly to the house bank, we use a combiner to the start bank with a switch in the ground leg to turn it off if we motor a lot, and the OEM #4 wires FROM the batteries TO the switch are just fine because they are ONLY used for battery OUTPUT to the C post: i.e., the DC panel and the starter wire to the starter. We never use the B switch position, can start the engine on the start bank position OR the house bank position, and can switch the switch when the engine is running with no fear of damaging anything. PS Ed, I also recommend changing your alternator output FROM the start bank through the ACR to from the alternator TO the house bank through the ACR to the start bank. Reason is described above, the start bank is almost always full, so why run that current through the ACR all the time? Same instructions came with the combiners (and Pathfinders) -- ALWAYS run the alternator output to the house bank.
Tim Cup
Quote: "I've used solid wire on a few projects, and it was a royal pain, but I thought I had to (my house is wired with solid, too)." Solid core wire should never be used on a boat!! The ABYC standard says this; "11.16.1.2.5. Conductors and flexible cords shall be stranded copper according to TABLE XII." Table 12 also stipulates the minimum number of wire strands for each wire gauge. For example; a 14 ga wire needs to have 41 strands to meet the type 3 wire requirement set forth under the ABYC E-11 standards.. Solid core wire can break and fracture in the marine environment due to the vibrations experienced in a boat and that can be very dangerous...
Quote: "I've used solid wire on a few projects, and it was a royal pain, but I thought I had to (my house is wired with solid, too)." Solid core wire should never be used on a boat!! The ABYC standard says this; "11.16.1.2.5. Conductors and flexible cords shall be stranded copper according to TABLE XII." Table 12 also stipulates the minimum number of wire strands for each wire gauge. For example; a 14 ga wire needs to have 41 strands to meet the type 3 wire requirement set forth under the ABYC E-11 standards.. Solid core wire can break and fracture in the marine environment due to the vibrations experienced in a boat and that can be very dangerous...
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