Inboard jib lead tracks
- Thread starter Tim
- Start date
If one used the original Vega jib dimensions, as for the smaller jibs, it would probably work. The shorter luff lengths would allow inboard sheeting.
But it seems todays sailmaking trend is to have the luff as long as possible, even on the smaller area sails ... I'm sure there's a good reason for this. But this leads to problems getting the sail inside the shrouds to sheet on inboard tracks.
I think it would be a great idea to have these extra tracks for sheeting a storm jib on an inner stay. I've played around with different sizes and shapes, using old tarp material and duct tape, to see if they'll fit, but haven't come to any usable conclusions yet.
It might be that the Vega's hull shape and rig geometry is better suited to sailing a bit more off the wind than more modern boats. These little boats really fly on a close reach!
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
But it seems todays sailmaking trend is to have the luff as long as possible, even on the smaller area sails ... I'm sure there's a good reason for this. But this leads to problems getting the sail inside the shrouds to sheet on inboard tracks.
I think it would be a great idea to have these extra tracks for sheeting a storm jib on an inner stay. I've played around with different sizes and shapes, using old tarp material and duct tape, to see if they'll fit, but haven't come to any usable conclusions yet.
It might be that the Vega's hull shape and rig geometry is better suited to sailing a bit more off the wind than more modern boats. These little boats really fly on a close reach!
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
You'd also have to be quite careful to build in enough local strength to back up the inboard track, so as not to lift (deflect) the deck, or crush the deck, or shear the core from the laminate. I'd be very hesitant.Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940
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From: Peter
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 11:55 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Inboard jib lead tracks
If one used the original Vega jib dimensions, as for the smaller jibs, it would probably work. The shorter luff lengths would allow inboard sheeting.
But it seems todays sailmaking trend is to have the luff as long as possible, even on the smaller area sails ... I'm sure there's a good reason for this. But this leads to problems getting the sail inside the shrouds to sheet on inboard tracks.
I think it would be a great idea to have these extra tracks for sheeting a storm jib on an inner stay. I've played around with different sizes and shapes, using old tarp material and duct tape, to see if they'll fit, but haven't come to any usable conclusions yet.
It might be that the Vega's hull shape and rig geometry is better suited to sailing a bit more off the wind than more modern boats. These little boats really fly on a close reach!
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940
This email is from a law firm and may contain information
that is privileged or confidential. If you suspect
you were not intended to receive this email,
please delete it and contact us.
From: Peter
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 11:55 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Inboard jib lead tracks
If one used the original Vega jib dimensions, as for the smaller jibs, it would probably work. The shorter luff lengths would allow inboard sheeting.
But it seems todays sailmaking trend is to have the luff as long as possible, even on the smaller area sails ... I'm sure there's a good reason for this. But this leads to problems getting the sail inside the shrouds to sheet on inboard tracks.
I think it would be a great idea to have these extra tracks for sheeting a storm jib on an inner stay. I've played around with different sizes and shapes, using old tarp material and duct tape, to see if they'll fit, but haven't come to any usable conclusions yet.
It might be that the Vega's hull shape and rig geometry is better suited to sailing a bit more off the wind than more modern boats. These little boats really fly on a close reach!
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
That's the location I was thinking of. I've got a Banks rep coming out Sunday to measure for a 155, I'll see what he thinks about a furling 110 and inboard tracks as well. A tall sail may backwind the main (my 135 does this if too tight to the spreaders) if sheeted to inboard tracks, but a shorter 110 may work out, if it can clear the spreaders. It may also work if the main is reefed.
Would you lead the sheets inside or outside the shrouds?
If inside, what if you need to let the headsail much farther out?
roy
If inside, what if you need to let the headsail much farther out?
roy
I wasn't going to comment, but ...
First, I wonder how much you'd gain in pointing. The Vega is already very
narrow, so the tracks are already relatively close to the mid-line. Also,
boats that point extremely well, have keels that are designed to give lift
to help drive the boat up. Until the early 70s this wasn't appreciated and a
keel was though to be just a thing hanging down to balance the force of the
wind and prevent slide slip. Then a young designer, Doug Peterson designed
and built a boat named Ganbare in the mid-70s. It was a one-tonner that was
build in secret in just a few weeks at a big yard in San Diego. It went on
to win races right and left. What Peterson realized is the the keel needed
to be designed to have lift to hold the bow into the wind. He used
aerodynamic design with his keels (keeping the chord constant to put is
simply). After this came the keel wings, etc.Nowadays, as much, if not
more, design work goes into keels as it does with sails.
With that in mind, the Vega keel is a cruising keel. It doesn't have a lift
shape so it won't help hold the bow into the wind other than preventing
side-slip. So, I have to wonder if the gain by going to all the expense and
trouble installing new tracks would be worth it. You could test it I suppose
by using a rope "horse" on the jib sheet and pulling it closer to the cabin
top. I'd do that before investing any further.
You might gain better pointing by installing one of the auxiliary rudders
farther aft from the pivot point to increase the turning leverage -- that
might help keep the bow into the wind by more brute force (and it would make
the Vega far easier to maneuver at low speed).
Those are my ramblings. If you do it and you gain significantly, I will be
the first to tip my hat you.
Chris
First, I wonder how much you'd gain in pointing. The Vega is already very
narrow, so the tracks are already relatively close to the mid-line. Also,
boats that point extremely well, have keels that are designed to give lift
to help drive the boat up. Until the early 70s this wasn't appreciated and a
keel was though to be just a thing hanging down to balance the force of the
wind and prevent slide slip. Then a young designer, Doug Peterson designed
and built a boat named Ganbare in the mid-70s. It was a one-tonner that was
build in secret in just a few weeks at a big yard in San Diego. It went on
to win races right and left. What Peterson realized is the the keel needed
to be designed to have lift to hold the bow into the wind. He used
aerodynamic design with his keels (keeping the chord constant to put is
simply). After this came the keel wings, etc.Nowadays, as much, if not
more, design work goes into keels as it does with sails.
With that in mind, the Vega keel is a cruising keel. It doesn't have a lift
shape so it won't help hold the bow into the wind other than preventing
side-slip. So, I have to wonder if the gain by going to all the expense and
trouble installing new tracks would be worth it. You could test it I suppose
by using a rope "horse" on the jib sheet and pulling it closer to the cabin
top. I'd do that before investing any further.
You might gain better pointing by installing one of the auxiliary rudders
farther aft from the pivot point to increase the turning leverage -- that
might help keep the bow into the wind by more brute force (and it would make
the Vega far easier to maneuver at low speed).
Those are my ramblings. If you do it and you gain significantly, I will be
the first to tip my hat you.
Chris
You guys raise some good points.
The Banks rep also pointed out that the Vega is a relatively narrow boat and that I should calculate the angle from the bow for the sail. He said that 10-12 degrees is about as tight as I would want to go, and that the boat could already be close to that angle at the forward ends of the tracks.
I'll have to put that on the list to measure before I have to pull the boat out for the winter.
I've only got 4 more days before the sail club has to pull the slips. The lake water level is dropping about a foot a day.
Perhaps some kind of barber hauling set up w/a snatch block would be a better alternative, if inboard sheeting has any benefits. -Tim
The Banks rep also pointed out that the Vega is a relatively narrow boat and that I should calculate the angle from the bow for the sail. He said that 10-12 degrees is about as tight as I would want to go, and that the boat could already be close to that angle at the forward ends of the tracks.
I'll have to put that on the list to measure before I have to pull the boat out for the winter.
I've only got 4 more days before the sail club has to pull the slips. The lake water level is dropping about a foot a day.
Perhaps some kind of barber hauling set up w/a snatch block would be a better alternative, if inboard sheeting has any benefits. -Tim