Inboard Diesel to Outboard 4-Stroke?

[Scott]

Nice looking boat, Dad ...

I like the blue topsides. Jeff, we've had the boat since August, 2004 and upgraded with new sails, the hatch, new head but not much else yet. She was pretty standard to begin with. I'm planning on replacing port lights and self-tailing primary winches. I'm taking the mast down this winter and will paint it and make some upgrades and new standing rigging. I am thinking about a new Simrad wind instrument (the original Kenyon is broke) and Schaefer furling/reefing for the headsail, which means I have to send the new genny back to re-fit. Adding a spinnaker pole would be a nice upgrade, but I'm not sure we consistently have the crew for it.I want auto-pilot but our lake is so small, it really won't be useful until we move. Refrigeration could be a nice upgrade ... I will have to see if solar panels can keep it running, as we are on a mooring now.For me, having the diesel was a plus because I want to learn about the engines so that I have more knowledge when moving up to a larger boat. We are not quite ready to move from Lake Hopatcong yet, but when we do, we will be thinking about a larger boat. I am concerned about not putting too much money into a boat that we will eventually sell. For right now, she is great.

 

[John]

I would go for the rebuild

There are 4 guys on my dock that changed from inboard sail drives to out board 1 Oday 28, 2 S2s 26' 1 Oday 26 ' they all love the out boards . I know two of them very well and they both say they would have payed the extra for the DSL if they had one to start .I would pull the moter myself and have it rebuild then drop it back in ,its a long winter .I have a friend with a h 27 1980 and it sold for 15000 bucks.this boat had a 10 hp 1 cyl dsl with a hand crank to start very cool. I think he did a rebuild for less then 1000 bucks in 2001 its not very hard .The moter wont smell you have a shop clean it an do all the metal work for you. then you can put it on a bench and put it back together.The shop will give you all the right parts read the shop manual and put it back together. take it to the boat and pop it in.by spring you will have it runing . (get the little moter running and you will feel like a god)and other people will think of you the same way . John

 

[Jeff]

What a deal!

Sounds like you got a deal! The cheapest H27 that I could find was a 1976 model with no engine at allfor $3500. It had an outboard on it that wasn't included. Best wishes to you and happy sailing!I think we all learned a lot from your question andI'm glad that it helped in your decision. I knowthat I get a lot of help on this site and I'm gladto share my experiences and what little I know whenI can. It's nice to know that there is people out therethat care. Scott- you might want to hold off on refrigeration untilyou get the bigger boat. It will cost you about a grandwhen you are all done plus solar panels. I had an automaticcharger on dock power keeping 2 big gel cell batteriescharged all week. The batteries would run the refer. andlights all weekend, but I didn't have to worry about powerto start a diesel engine either. Plus you would probably haveto put the unit in the quarter locker and loose a bunch ofspace. My batteries and refer unit are mounted where thediesel would usually be. I doubt that solar panels wouldkeep up all the time and you would probably have to runthe diesel to charge up a certain percentage of the time.Yep-bigger boat equals diesel power. That's exactly whatI'm doing with this Hunter 31. I'm learning all about thediesel and all the systems on big boats. Since everythingis bad on this boat, I'm getting a crash course! I'm stuckon a small lake for now, but am prepairing for blue watersomeday.I got a Pro-Furl R25 for my Starwind that works very wellat a good price. I had that same furler on a Chrysler 26that never gave me any trouble and was easy to set up on the existing headstay. Never had a Schaefer unit, but I hearthey are very good too. My mast needs paint badly also. I havefull battens and they have really rubbed the paint off. I thoughtabout sanding the paint off and leaving it bare like most mastsbut I do like the look of the black mast. I had the only blackmast on the dock in my marina. Take care and I hope to talk to you again someday

 

[Jeff]

To Moody

Yes, you are right, there are a lot of fine, outstanding andhonest marine mechanics out there. I was an honest auto mechanicand never charged enough for the services I rendered andthat's why I never made enough money at it. I just truly lovedworking on cars and cared about people. In my situation here, there are only a couple of places to haveyour sailboat serviced and they are usually booked weeks andeven months in advance. Most of the time when you call them,you have to leave a message and they never call you back. You actually have to go and track them down in person and then theyforget you anyway.  They won't let you do your own bottomwork at the marina, so you are at their mercy. The only otheroption is to have the other place haul it out and bring it about7 miles away which costs big bucks because they have to bring ina crain to drop your mast and transport your boat. So, I hadthe marina do the bottom paint. They did such a sloppy, bad jobthat they didn't even paint the area between the rudder and thehull or the leading edge of the keel. I got the guy over to theboat to show him and he said they didn't paint between the rudderand the hull because the wheel lock was on. I said that it wasn'tbecause I had left it unlocked for that reason and then I grabbedthe back of the rudder with one hand and pushed it aside.They also painted right over some blisters too. It was very lucky thatI just happened to be there before they put the boat back in!When they were putting the mast back up, I asked them if they checked the mast lights before they started tightining the riggingback down and they said that it wasn't their problem! Sure enough, Igot up onto the boat and the lights didn't work. I had them lift up the mast and I jiggled the connections and the lights came on.So lucky I was there. It was just by chance because they gave meno indication when the work was going to be done or when they were going to put the boat back in the water. And mind you, 99.9% of thework they do is on sailboats! They didn't even get the windicatorback on straight! I can go into many other stories just as bad orworse, but I won't bore you. There is no other marina here on the lake to get work done becausethe Corp. of Engineers won't allow it. So, basically, there is a monopolyhere that perpetuates poor service that they can charge big money for.Same two places have been in business there for as long as anyonecan remember. I guess, here in my little world, I forgot there areactually many other quality services out there! What are your thoughts on the B&R rig? Mine is older and hasa backstay. I've been reading the tuning instructions thatcame with the boat but it's still chineese to me. They saysome of the tuning is to be done with the mast down, but Idon't have that luxury. I just got one of those ATM mast climbers because I'm going to have to drop the forestaybecause of some roller furler problems. I'm not sure thatI'm all that crazy about the B&R rig, but I'm trying. I agree with you about not liking the looks of an outboardon the back of a sailboat. It ruins the lines but is betterfor racing the in between size of boats. I've had a fewColumbia Sabres with the engine well and we would take theengine out of the "well" and hang it in the keel cavity. I had bought an OMC saildrive for it and a folding prop,but sold that boat before I had installed it.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

B&R Tuning

Hey Jeff,We have a bit more in common. I was a auto tech too (in a prior life). The B&R is a neat rig. I don't have any first hand experience tuning one. The nature of the process makes it MUCH easier to get the diamonds (d1 & d2) right with the mast out of the boat. The d2's are adjusted at the lower spreaders and your weight on the mast head will effect the pre-bend.If is was my boat, I'd take the tension off the uppers and lowers and check the pre-bend. If the pre-bend is still close (1% of the distance from boom to masthead) and the stick is straight athwartships, I'd call it good and tune the uppers and lowers like any other rig. What I think of as intermediates are the D2's (upper part of the lower diamond) and that tension is set with the d2's as part of the pre-bend tuning, so you can do it all from the deck.The rig is very elegant and the theory is simple, it just looks complicated.

 

[John]

I feel for you Jeff

Im in lake George NY and I cant get anty thing fixed .One day i went to our shop and told the guys that my boat was sinking in the slip becouse of a bad shaft packing and i needed some help . They told me that there where 14 boat ahead of me and they couldet even look at it untill the end of next week.Ive been fixing my boat since then.(7 years later0 my boat is home for a bottom job and some new deck core and other things.I cant take the driveing anty more 3hr each way 100 bucks in dsl .I have a400 ml round trip.It cost me less to move the boat then winter storage.bob from Alco marine moved me cradle and all. (nice job)I have a C 30 1988TR It looks real BIG in the drive way the The guy next door freaked out when he came home .Sunday Im frameing a garage around it when he is at church I have about 2 hours.This guy dosent like me anty way. John

 

[Ross]

I think that I will drop in my nickels worth here

I have been repairing houses for almost thirty years. This is how I set my labor rates: I advertize in the local papers and get many calls, Nancy,(my wife) manages the business and set up appointments for me to make estimate calls. I talk to the homeowner, discussing the required work and his/her expectations and write a proposal based on the time (man hours) that I believe will be required to complete the work and the material cost. If I am able to get more than one half of the jobs that I estimate I will raise my labor rate incrementally until I am getting about forty percent of the jobs that I estimate. Any shop that is booked for months in advance is under charging for their labor. The customers love it, but the business man works 12 hours a day 6 days a week just to make a living.If there is only one service facility in an area and they are over booked that is an opportunity for establishing a new business. As long as you don't under bid them for work they won't mind if you are there. They may evan tell some of their impatient customers that you can get to their work if they (the customer) don't mind your prices. As far as competion is concerned if they under bid me ,they know what their stuff is worth. If they over bid me my customers know the quality of my work.I had one man tell me that my price for cutting interior doors was too high. I asked if he had a saw. He said that he did not. So I just shrugged and walked away.

 

[Jeff]

To Moody Re: B&R

The way you explained the B&R rig makes a lotof sense and easy to understand. The prebend istensioned back to the mast itself. I gues thedimond stays on my Hobbie 18 is a mini versionof the B&R. The big advantage of the B&R rig asI understand it is that the mast section is a lotsmaller causing less windage and less weight aloft.Thank you!

 

[Jeff]

To Ross Re:Labor rates and quality service

Yes I understand your theory and I usedsorta the same model for my pest controlcompany. I had more business then I couldhandle because of repeat business becauseof quality work. I was competing with 22 othercompanies. The businesses I'm talking about has nocompetition because no other competitionis allowed and you can't do your own workon the type of labor that they do. They setit up that way. They even set up two telephonepoles with cables stretched accross so thatyou can't hire your own crain outside themarina and bring your boat in with the mast up even though the boat ramp is a publicramp. They are not booked so far in advance becausethey charge too little, it's because peoplehave no choice. They do not work long hoursat all. They can charge whatever they want becasuetheir clients/victims are captive. From what I understand,if some other company comes in to provide you a servicethat the marina does not offer, the marina gets a 10% cutof that job. In my case (as explained in my post) the work wasvery substandard. I do have a "saw" but they won't let me use it oranyone else use it either.

 

[Ross]

Jeff, It seems like it is time to change marinas

running such a monopoly is legal but not good business.

 

[Jeff]

Ross

Like I said, there is only one marina that offers any services. The other marina not only has no services,but, does not allow dogs and has no bathrooms or showersafter Oct. When I said monopoly, I meant monopoly. There is no changing marinas.

 

[Ross]

Jeff , Now I know that I am spoiled.

Within site of our marina there are six others that offer a wide range of service. At least one is a full service marina and allows slip holders to bring in outside contractors.(they have so much work they don't mind). One is bare bones minimal with just pumpout and launch ability and water and electricity at each slip.