In-water winter storage?

[BungalowBill]

I would love to hear some feedback on the idea of in-water winter storage in the cold climate (Northern MN. Lake Superior) using 'bubblers' to keep the water from freezing. The harbor master already uses the bubblers to keep the floating marina docks free of ice and last season two boats (one sail and on stinkpot) stayed in the water all year and it worked out great. The lake water is algae free and very clean. I am considering this but not sold totally.
The alternative is hauling the boat and leaving it on the hard about 100 yards off the shore in storage yard. I would love to hear from anyone else that has done this. Thanks a bunch.

 

[Alan]

I wet store my boat every alternate year. This is supposed to be a haul-out year but I'm considering a short haul to do a bottom job and wet store again this winter. Haven't gotten all the pricing for this year yet but if the short haul/wet store is cheaper I will go with that.

 

[Warren Milberg]

I wouldn't keep my boat in the water over the winter if it were free. Last winter -- admittedly an "unusual" winter here -- we had around 4 ft of snow. If my boat was in the water, that would have been 4 ft of snow on the boat. That's a lot of weight, all of it pushing downward. Yikes. Bubblers do work great in keeping ice from forming around your boat's waterline -- until they don't work at all. And, they tend to not work when you most need them, like duirng a heavy snow or ice storm and the power goes out. The one year I did leave my boat in the water, it also snowed a lot. I had a hard time getting to the marina with the intent of cleaning off the snow. When I got to the marina, it was not plowed. I trudged in knee deep snow to the piers. Getting down the piers covered with ice and snow was dangerous. When I got to the boat, I realized I could not get the frozen snow off the boat.

Whether it is less expensive to keep a boat in the water over a cold winter than having it hauled is not dissimilar to how one thinks about hauling before a hurricane hits. Its only cheaper if you have no damage. Yet I know lots of other boaters who do winter over in the water here and have never had any damage. The prime difference between what they do, and what I do (get hauled) is that I constantly worried about the boat when it was in the water over the winter. So, at least for me, sitting out the winter on the hard is worth it.

 

[Ross]

I have seen the ice packs when the wind combines with the spring thaw. I doubt that a boat could survive that.

 

[Berndahle]

I left my boat in the water last winter (Chesapeake Bay) and also had 3 feet of snow on it. As long as your boat can handle the heightened waterline it shouldn't cause any damage and I think I'd rather have that extra weight while in the water than on dry dock. We also had a lot of ice last winter but in my opinion, as long as your ice isn't a foot or more deep it won't damage your hull. Bubblers work very well but, as Warren mentioned, the power can always go out, it can break, etc.

Of course your boat should be properly winterized but it is slightly warmer on the water than it is on land so it is less likely to freeze. I will leave my boat in the water again this winter but our winters are also not as harsh as what you experience up there.

 

[Chilidog]

I grew up on a small lake in Northern Illinois. the homeowners association installed bubble aerators to improve the water quality. One year, one of the homeowners tapped into the bubbler to keep from having to haul his pier out.


It worked great until the ice started to break up in the spring. A west wind pushed a big 5 acre piece of ice across the lake and it totally destroyed the pier.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Us salt water boaters have a different perspective and many do winter-in without much consternation. I used to leave it in every other winter too.

This isn't salt water and it makes a big difference. You really need to see what happens near-shore in Lake S and Lake M to realize the difference. Bubblers don't stand a chance in some areas. My son would never even think about leaving his boat in during the Wisconsin winter

 

[RAD]

What is piece of mind worth....I used to leave mine in all year round in Long Island and short haul every 2 years for a bottom paint job.....but in the summer I needed to replace zincs....ever try and replace zincs in the water? then if a nor'easter showed up and power went out like others have said....worry,worry,worry then one year the whole cockpit filled with snow then solid ice before I could get there and the only way was to put a heater in the engine room right below it to thaw it out over night and worry I didn't damage the cockpit drains , that was the last year I left the boat in the water and I figured the winter storage was 20 dollars a foot and dry storage is 32 so for the additional 400 dollars its so worth it to haul

 

[Alan]

I'll not disagree about the severity of the winter on Lake Superior because I just don't know. But with regard to snow and ice build up on the boat it makes no difference to the boat where it sits. Fact is the boat would be better served by sitting in the water. Having the cockpit fill with snow and ice that freezes is simply a matter of the covering used. With no cover it will cause the same issues whether on land or not. As to the weight that the boat can support we once had a rendezvous in Newport where nearly 100 sailors scrambled onto a 35 footer for a photo op. The boat handled the load really well, not so much for the docks during the off loading, they where awash.

 

[jimmcgee]

I kept my boat in two winters on south Barnegat Bay (Beach Haven) NJ with a West Marine heater on board that kept the internal temp around 40-45 degrees and doubled lines against storms.

Every third weekend I'd go down, check the boat, adjust the lines, freeze my a## off. It's amazing how much colder it is on that dock.

I was constantly watching the weather and going down to check on her when big winter storms came through. BTW docks are VERY slippery in freezing rain The bubbler system never failed, but it did shift in a storm and one side of my boat was frozen in.

Last fall it seemed like one bad storm after another was coming through so I decided to haul out.

The peace of mind was wonderful. You may squeeze in a few more days on the water and you may save a few bucks, but I don't think I'll ever keep her in again unless I move below the snow line. YMMV.

Jim

Yep, that's frozen seawater
​

 

[jibes138]

I used to winter wet for two years then haul for a bottom job the third year. This was in southern new england around mystic (noank). Over time more and more boats were staying in the water. One reason was the marina I was at made you unstep your mast for winter storage, a large expense and more than once I had mast damage from poor handling. If I was still in new england I would follow this same pattern, but it is pretty temperate in southern new england, the water temp stays warm until about late december so about 6 weeks where the possibility of water freezing occurs. I never used a bubbler and only saw the water freeze up once with a thin layer.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

It is not uncommon for boaters in the frozen winter tundras, of say, Minnesota and Wisconsin to bubble their boats in the water over the winters. But, they do it in marinas that are set up for this. By being set up, this means, the marina provides the bubblers (one of the best bubblers on the market was created in a small river town called Afton, MN) and they have staff all winter to monitor their function. So, if there is a power failure, or similar problems, they catch it daily and can deal with it. They also shrink wrap or cover the boats so that there is a ridge pole high enough to send snow into the water and not have it pile up on the boat. I can't imagine someone putting a boat in the water all winter where it snows 4' and not cover the boat. 4' ain't nuthin' when it comes to winters in MN or WI, by the way. Also, the docks where the boats are bubbled in are maintained by the marina staff who keeps them clear of snow so you can get to your boat (or they can get to your boat). Obviously the boat has to be winterized and also seacocks have to be winterized. I have seen seacocks freeze up, burst and sink boats. If done properly, there is not problem. Also, people are requested to not have heaters going on in their boats when not in attendance. This can be a cause of fires. So.....bubbling in boats is something that is done regularly in climates, but there is a system and safeguards.
There is one marina in St. Paul, MN that has a number of houseboats that remain in the water all winter and people live on them. They bubble the boats in as described and then they cake the boats up on the outside with blocks of foam and then envelope it all in plastic. But, it is done because the marina allows it and tends to them. Go south where it was frigid in Florida, but no frozen water last winter.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Chilidog ...

Hailing form Deep Lake! That was my summer home during a previous life! I learned to sail, windsurf and most of all, water ski on Deep Lake. Those 3 bubblers were not safe for the ice fishermen, but they seemed to survive. We had an ice fishing shack village out in front of our cottage every winter!

 

[Chilidog]

Hailing form Deep Lake! That was my summer home during a previous life! I learned to sail, windsurf and most of all, water ski on Deep Lake. Those 3 bubblers were not safe for the ice fishermen, but they seemed to survive. We had an ice fishing shack village out in front of our cottage every winter!

Awesome.

My mom still lives there. Were you down in the cove?

The lake hasn't changed much. The county forest preserve brought up most of the land on the north and west side, including Sun Lake. Now, without all the fertilizer runoff, the millfoil is no longer the issue that it was for years.

there are only a couple of sailboats left on the lake, though.

 

[Frenchie3958]

Winter on a river

My boat is on a river and i have to go through a lock to reach the ocean with salted water. Every winter It stays on the water with the battery charger on, automatic heater inside, water tank empty, fuel tank full with special additive. I filll the engine with glycol (same for the toilets) and drain it with a pump when sprig is coming. I'm not far from it and can take care every day after my work .We don't have any bubblers and I had to break the ice many times. The staff is looking after the 700 boats and check the ropes in case of cold wind. The boat is warmer on the water than outside and the price is the same if it stays outside. Take a look to the pictures taken on the Genova Lake in Switzerland where some boats sink just because of the wind:
http://pyrotechnic.ch/2010 Bise-glace/2010 Bise glace.htm
If you are far from your boat take the right decision !!

 

[Max15631]

And then there's personal safety..........

I left my boat in the water in my marina one winter with a bubbler under it. I've always believed that there are less uneven stresses on the hull when it is fully supported by water. I would come down every two to three weeks to check on the boat, and often say overnight. There were no problems except for the frequent layer of ice that formed on the finger pier which was about 2-3 feet above the rail of the boat. I realized that if I happened to fall in, it was highly unlikely that anyone would be around to hear me yelling for help, and that I wouldn't have lasted more than five minutes in that ice-cold water. Now, hull stresses notwithstanding, it's kept on the hard all winter.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Haverstraw Marina on the Hudson ...

offers in water storage but the cost diffential is very small it seems. They are on a well-protected cove so don't have the issue of ice floating down the river. I've thought about storage in the water there when we move but the reduced price doesn't seem to warrant it. I imagine it is a matter of preference in that case. Winters can have a lot of snow but not always.

Chilidog, our cottage was in the cove at about the lowest lying land on the lake front. We had a large porch built in the 80's so it became more distinctive. Our neighbor replaced his really nice cottage with a large brown house at the lakefront about the time I moved away in 1989. My grandmother first arrived there in 1914 when her family had to take the train from Chicago to get there. I put in a slalom course for water skiing in the corner of the lake by Sun Lake and maintained it for several years until moving away. I think there were some skiers from the subdivisions off Grand Ave who used it after I left but it may be gone now. My cousin owns the cottage now and I would be surprised if he didn't keep a small sailboat there. It's nice that it has been in the family since the time it was first built.

When I was young, those subdivisions were non-existent and there were the ruins of some mansions from an earlier time on the property. We always referred to the old hotel and restaurant at the end of 2nd St (?) as Johnson's Resort. I wonder if that private golf course at the corner of Deep Lake Rd and Grand Ave is still maintained?

 

[Chilidog]

My grandmother first arrived there in 1914 when her family had to take the train from Chicago to get there.

Was she Norwegian. (most of the early settlers on the lake were)

My cousin owns the cottage now and I would be surprised if he didn't keep a small sailboat there. It's nice that it has been in the family since the time it was first built.

I think I met him. He offered to help me out when I took my new boat (a Flying Scot) out. Is his name John or Jeff? He was in a laser. (I think he has a sailboard as well.

When I was young, those subdivisions were non-existent and there were the ruins of some mansions from an earlier time on the property.

The old Reynolds family mansions. There were three of them. One is a children's home now.

We always referred to the old hotel and restaurant at the end of 2nd St (?) as Johnson's Resort. I wonder if that private golf course at the corner of Deep Lake Rd and Grand Ave is still maintained?

The old hotel is long gone, but the bar is still there. It has been renovated into a nice restaurant. Jack & Lydia's owns it now. Jack owns a number of the houses in that little corner now. He brought up some of the little rinky dink cottages as they came up for sale.

Their place still rocks to the polkas on Sat. nights.

The property with the mini-three hole golf course is still there, the sunken wreck of the houseboat from the 70's is still in the channel leading back to that property.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Ha! "10,000 Swedes ran thru the weeds ...

chased by 1 Norwegian" she always used to say! Her father was Swedish and her mother Norwegian and one tough-looking broad ... both immigrants. My grandmother was very petite and always said she feared her mother!

Anyway, you probably met my cousin Jim. I used to love sailing on his father's (my uncle)boat which was kept at the Monroe Street harbor. They were/are members of the Columbia Yacht Club in Chicago. I doubt you met his brothers Joel and John or his sister, Jill. His wife is June. Their kids have to be late teens or early 20's by now.

It's funny how nothing changes. I remember the polka dancing and the fishermen who used to row out from Jack & Lydia's and anchor right in the middle of our course while we were trying to ski it. They only spoke Polish, so we had a communication problem to be sure. :cussing:

I would have forgotten about that mysterious houseboat if you didn't mention it. I don't ever remember when it first appeared!