In mast furling

[higgs]

Yesterday we pulled a brand new Benny with in mast furling. The couple wanted their mainsail out of the mast for winter storage. They knew nothing about the furler, nor did anyone else hanging around the club, so I said it can't be that hard and offered to help. It was a little gusty, so we decided not to drop the sail at the dock and did so where we could keep pointed into the wind. The damn furler jammed with the sail out about three quarters. Since the system was new to all of us it took us a while to figure out how to unjam. All I could think of was how glad I was we were not trying to do this as some T storm with 50 mph winds was upon us. Another guy in the club has a Benny and the local repair service has been out at least three times working on it this summer. The guy who I helped said he has had the service out for his as well.Is this typical of these units?

 

[Big Joe]

Benny mast furling

Interesting that you should post this. Four days ago I saw a new Benny who's furling main was just flogging the hell out of itself. It was jammed with 1/2 of the manin rolled into the mast. Not knowing if the owner was around I went to see if I could do anything.The boats companionway was open but no one was around. After a few minutes a mechanic shows up saying he would have it fixed in no time. The boat was a charter. It seem the mechanic had fixed it 3 times already for the same thing. That main was seriously jammed and I wouldn't want that setup. I would'nt want to be trying to fix that as the wind picked up.Using it on a charter situation like this is just nuts.Regards, Big Joe

 

[Stan21606]

In mast furling is the best

I've had in mast furling on my Beneteau 361 for six(6) yearsand have NEVER had a jamb. If you take care when furling thesail into the mast there is absolutely no reason for it to jamb.I've sailed a pretty good bit with conventional rigs and havehad times when it became impossible to drop the main allthe way because of a jamb on the bat cars or the track.Anything can happen on a sailboat, and usually does at some point.

 

[Rick I]

Operator error

I love my furling mast. Had it three years now. Unless there is an equipment failure every time a sail jams it's the operator's fault. Before I got one I was a bit wary, having heard the horror stories but it has really been delightful. I would say that most of the folks that charter boats don't know how to properly use a furling mast. Many new owners don't either.Rick Ihttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/beneteau393 : Beneteau393 Group

 

[Bill C320 Papillon]

Mine is

11 years old and I've had it jam numerous times but never when I was trying to furl it. It has jammed when deploying the main and all you have to do is roll it back into the mast a few turns and try again. Usually deploys after the first re-roll. The reason it has jammed is because I got sloppy when furling it and allowed the sail to get wrinkles. It takes a while to figure out what works best for your system. Some friends refer to it as my "dial a sail" and it sure lets me go out in much harder blows than I would consider with a reefed conventional main. I don't think there is any way I would consider a new boat without it. You also mentioned that you had the boat pointed into the wind. It is better when deploying the main to be on a tack (starboard in my case) because the wind helps pull the sail out once you get started. I understand why you decided to park it pointed into the wind but for in-mast, whether furling or deploying, some strain on the sail helps.And by the way, you said you would hate to be out in 50kt winds and have it jam like that. I bet you would be trying to furl it, not unfurl it in that kind of wind and as I said, I've never had a jam when I was rolling it into the mat.

 

[Cap'n Ron]

Benny Toes

Mr Higgs since you work in a boatyard you cannot be immune to the 'issues' (read problems) that bennys are notorious for.I don't know of one pro that likes them, but the company has gone to great lengths to pick up the slack and fix problems, especially the keel-bolts that corrode mucho.The mast-furler-system is just one more in a long series, they are pretty but built for looks and to show off...a long way from a Hansy or Lord Nelson, a Baba even.There are several obvious reasons why moorings use then in their fleet, or use to; a Hunter is slightly better.I can't think of any furler system that will NOT let you down, especially if furled at night or in a blow.Had a Hunter 'Passage' 45 one time that was a real bitch to furl (talking jib now) in anything more than 15 knots), and after she was rolled up it was like we felt..never again!Looks first; then function.*crySome of the larger yachts, motor-sailers and the like, have roller-furler systems in the boom. I had a Island-Packet trimaran with this set up once I brought up from Meheeco. It worked well, but I was prepared tobring it down as I had a down-haul tied at the head, and in worst-case-scenerio it could be wound round the boom.was a great boat, slow, but safe and comfortable with twin Yanmars aft of each head in symetrical cabins in each amma.These are facts about these yachts, it is what it is. If you want respect, buy a Hans Christian....;-) lol

 

[Ed Fluss]

my 2 cents on roller furling

I have the Hunter 326 (had-just sold it) equipped with Selden Furling (main and jib) and never had any type of jam or failure. I remove/maintain the sails and system each year, keep tension on the sails when rolling them out or in and never a problem. Have been out in the TSTORM single handling and I thank heaven for roller furling for those times just offshore LI or even in NY HARBOR where it can truly kick up fierce.my 2 centsEF

 

[Fred]

I have seen mainsails set on a

"jackstay"; a wire set behind the mast on a couple of solid brackets with enough clearance for the drum. It would sag more than in mast furling, but no more than a roller furling jib. Cheaper to add to an existing rig.Does anyone on the list have experience with this kind of main furling? I know it wouldn't work for a racer, but it appeals to me for price, plus it's like the roller jib I'm used to. No mast crack to jam in.

 

[Cap'n Ron]

Wire-main-furler

Fred, Yeah,Have seen it. In Hawaii a one-off Catamaran had a 'tee-pee' mast from each ama, stayed all round, with a tight wire where the mast would be in a traditional (purty weird) but I went out as crew and it handled fine, this one did not have roller furling, main was hanked on like a jib.Last Iheard of these guys was from Australia.It could have easily had a roller furler drum installed at the base of the 1X19 Wire "mast".Segrg Testa's little alumium sloop had a prototype roller furler (in early 70's) that worked well in all kinds of weather when he set his record for the smallest yacht to ever circumnavigate. It is in the Brisbane museum, I saw it while moored there at the botanical gardens, far ahead of her time.Ture, tradiional rigs can fail and be hard to depower, hasn't happened oft to me, but roller-furlers do though. I always rig a downhaul tied to the head of my jib, a block at the bow, line sead aft to the cockpit. Leaving the jib-sheets tied, I haul it down to the deck and can leave her there with the halyard tightend until I get into easier conditions if need be.If a fellow has been playing russian roulette with a six shooter, and came up empty twelve times, is he then a success?

 

[Stan21606]

Beneteau is a GREAT boat

There's an old saying "a man without data is just anotherman with an opinion". My 2002 Beneteau 361 is a wonderfulboat. She points higher then other boats I've sailed, ieCatalina, Island Packet, Jeanneau and loves 15-20 knots ofwind. Above 20 knots I easily furl my main and headsail withoutever leaving the cockpit.If you don't know any 'pros' who like Beneteau's I'll send youa long list. It's all a matter of opinion.

 

[higgs]

It is not an issue of Bennys

It is the issue of the main furlers they use. Bennys are good boats.

 

[Dean Thomas]

No problems with our in mast furler

As another Beneteau 361 owner, my wife and I LOVE that in-mast furler! We'll never own another boat without one! We've had it jam once on the way out - we rolled it back in a little and then it came right out fine. It is a great system and, for us, the ability to easily reduce or increase main sail area is worth any performance loss we might experience.Dean Thomas2001 Beneteau 361 Second Wind

 

[higgs]

Dean

What will you do if you are caught in a severe T storm and it jams so that you can'tgo in or out?

 

[Stan21606]

Stuff happens

On sailboats, anything can happen. On a traditionalrig that was jambed you could cut the halyard and thenthe main would drop and flog it and you. I guess on myin-mast rig I would cut the outhaul and get flogged.In both cases preparation and avoidance is best.

 

[Dean Thomas]

T storm jam?

Higgs,We've been in some pretty serious weather and have yet to have the system give even a hint of a problem, except for one time early on, before we learned the proper procedure for using the system.** In fact, due to the nature of the furler, we tend to roll the sail in as the weather builds. We've yet to get caught with a full-out, or mostly-out, main in a nasty thunderstorm - we are probably more conservative in that regard than we need to be.When we are sailing, I think about contingency planning all the time (what if the engine quits *here*, what do I do? What if that oblivious motor boat pins me against the shore *here*, which why will I turn?, etc.), so I understand your point about the furler jamming in a heavy weather situation. In the scenario you describe, I'd have to get the engine on, turn into the wind and let the main flog itself until I can figure out what is wrong with the furler. To be entirely honest, in that situation, I'd rather have my main sail furler jam than genoa up on on the bow. Being up by the mast seems safer than getting a mouthful of bow pulpit in the middle of some big waves.Even with the risks of a jam, for us, the benefits of the furler far outweigh the potential problems (especially when we try to take preemptive steps to prevent any problems in the first place).Dean Thomas2001 Beneteau 361 Second Wind**I learned the proper procedure in a posting on a competing sailing messageboard, but I don't want to be disrespectful to SailboatOwners by linking to them.

 

[Malcolm Young]

Technique?

I don't know about recent Beneteau systems, however did furl main on a chartered Beneteau Oceanus 461 in the Greek Islands with no problem.In the original post and the subsequent posts I have seen no mention of the technique being used for furling. If you don't keep some tension on the line being released you can have overrides on the internal mast drum when unrolling the sail or you can have uneven rolling and bunching up of the sail when rolling it in. I have linked below to a previous discussionHope this helps

 

[JB]

A friend of mine just bought a 2005 423 Beneteau. It not only is beautiful inside and out, it has a lot of new thoughtful features to make it comfortable including things like a hot shower on the swim step among others. It also has little things for the helmsman like raised foot rests etc. It is a beautiful comfortable boat that is remarkably easy to sail. With the batonless mainsail it isn't going to beat a racing boat, or a racing Beneteau, but at the end of a long, fun, pleasant sail (with almost all the amenities of a cruise ship) and tiring sail, by the time you come thru the breakwater the sails are furled (with electric wenches if u want)and the work is done(if u can call it work). He can do it alone in minutes before getting to the dock. All there is to do is hose off the salt and go home. After sailing my Cal all day, which I love to sail, but I don't look forward to dropping and folding the mainsail. Finding a spot to head into the wind dropping the sail and wrestling it onto the top of the boom..tying it down and putting on the cover. A feat that I have to have help doing with a 15' boom especially if there's any kind of wind.He doesn't race it, it's just for pleasure, and it is a pleasure.The mainsail got stuck once on his second sailing. The solution was easy!He had the topping lift pulled up so the boom was not level. That of course puts a kink in the sail, and won't pass thru the slot in the boom. Level the boom so there's no kink in the sail and it goes right in. Beneteau makes racing hulls if u want to race. The sails are conventional with foils and racing equipment like most racing boats have. If it has the word "First" on the hull along with the name Beneteau it's a racing Beneteau, and quite different.At my age, and frankly most guests that come aboard to relax, love that Beneteau. I chartered a new 45' Jenneaux when I was in Spain this summer, it too was amazing. We anchored and swam in dozens of little coves around the island of Menorca. Even the anchoring is amazingly simple and effecient. Swim, take a hot shower on the swim step, walk into the very homelike cabin where u can sit and see the water out of the windows, and eat some roast that's been cooking while we sailed. We went right from the boat to the disco showered and fed. As the saying goes these new Beneteau's are not like your Dad's Beneteau. It won't keep up with my Cal on the water, but he'll be home asleep while I'm finishing up my after sail chores.

 

[JB]

A friend of mine just bought a 2005 423 Beneteau. It not only is beautiful inside and out, it has a lot of new thoughtful features to make it comfortable including things like a hot shower on the swim step among others. It also has little things for the helmsman like raised foot rests etc. It is a beautiful comfortable boat that is remarkably easy to sail. With the batonless mainsail it isn't going to beat a racing boat, or a racing Beneteau, but at the end of a long, fun, pleasant sail (with almost all the amenities of a cruise ship) and tiring sail, by the time you come thru the breakwater the sails are furled (with electric wenches if u want)and the work is done(if u can call it work). He can do it alone in minutes before getting to the dock. All there is to do is hose off the salt and go home. After sailing my Cal all day, which I love to sail, but I don't look forward to dropping and folding the mainsail. Finding a spot to head into the wind dropping the sail and wrestling it onto the top of the boom..tying it down and putting on the cover. A feat that I have to have help doing with a 15' boom especially if there's any kind of wind.He doesn't race it, it's just for pleasure, and it is a pleasure.The mainsail got stuck once on his second sailing. The solution was easy!He had the topping lift pulled up so the boom was not level. That of course puts a kink in the sail, and won't pass thru the slot in the boom. Level the boom so there's no kink in the sail and it goes right in. Beneteau makes racing hulls if u want to race. The sails are conventional with foils and racing equipment like most racing boats have. If it has the word "First" on the hull along with the name Beneteau it's a racing Beneteau, and quite different.At my age, and frankly most guests that come aboard to relax, love that Beneteau. I chartered a new 45' Jenneaux when I was in Spain this summer, it too was amazing. We anchored and swam in dozens of little coves around the island of Menorca. Even the anchoring is amazingly simple and effecient. Swim, take a hot shower on the swim step, walk into the very homelike cabin where u can sit and see the water out of the windows, and eat some roast that's been cooking while we sailed. We went right from the boat to the disco showered and fed. As the saying goes these new Beneteau's are not like your Dad's Beneteau. It won't keep up with my Cal on the water, but he'll be home asleep while I'm finishing up my after sail chores.

 

[Ernie]

GREAT WHEN THEY WORK

My first experience with in mast main furling was on a Jeanneau 50 down in the Caribbean. That along with a Jib furler made it possible to easily sail a fifty foot boat with only two people. Of course, on a return trip about a year later the main would unfurl fine, but getting it to furl required the use of a winch, and even then it really put up a fight. It was obvious to me that the bearings were shot. Unfortunately, just knowing what's wrong doesn't necessarily fix it, but at least I could tell the owner what was going on. A year after that I bought a 79 H33 also equiped with on mast main furling. I've had the boat for about eight years now, and it's only fouled on me two or three times. Even then it was a somewhat easy job to find the problem and remedy it. On my boat I have a spare halyard that likes to wrap itself into the main as it rolls up.Despite the aggrivation when they mess up on you, I love the furling main and would certeinly have it on my next boat.

 

[SailJunkie]

We've got in-mast furling on our 2005 Cat 310...

and (knock on wood) we've never had any issues with it. It's a Charlston Spar unit. Typically though, when we load the sail in spring time, I take great care to make sure that it is completely tight on the halyard (i.e. all the way up on the mast) before furling it in. It's a great unit!