In mast furling main working much better now

[BroncoJohn]

I was having problems deploying and furling my in mast main on our 2002 386 since we purchased her last year. The boat only had 400 hours but also had it's original sails. The sail would come out with some effort but going back in was 15 min of hard winching with breaks to catch my breath.
I recently replaced almost all of the running rigging myself, installed a new main sail and lubed the bearings in the mast. The sail came out easier in under a minute but I still needed to use the winch as pulling it out by hand was not quite as easy as I had hopped.
I started to use the continuous loop to furl in the main with a winch but it was back to cranking again. It was not as hard as before, but not what I had hoped.
An retired fellow hunter owner at my marina with much more experience than I, takes people out a few times a day on 3 hour sailing trips as a business. He advised me to furl in the main with the winch on the base of the mast and not with the continuous loop. Wow what a difference. I got the main in in less than a minute and it was very easy.
I am now wondering if the rollers under the deck cowling are one of my next friction issues to deal with. My boat has a white plastic horizontal roller bar near the mast then flat roller wheels next in line guiding the lines to my cockpit area.

Are replacements easily available or is it even worth replacing?
I have read where some have run their lines over the deck to avoid the friction caused by these rollers.

I noticed the white plastic roller bar has worn notches in the plastic from the lines and I am not sure of the condition of the other roller wheels that are next in the path from the mast to the cockpit.

 

[JamesG161]

My boat has a white plastic horizontal roller bar near the mast then flat roller wheels next in line guiding the lines to my cockpit area.

Mine too.

I just water wash them and that area, each season.

On the H430 that area can get sea water from splashing on a bow wave.[rain water too]
_________

I got the main in in less than a minute and it was very easy.

The new sail was the key to ease of furling. The Admiral and I do ours in 2 minutes.

Here is another tip.
The boom angle is needed

Jim...

 

[jdrutten]

...
Here is another tip.
The boom angle is needed
...

Jim, I was moments away from referencing one of your earlier excellent posts on in-mast furling before you beat me to the punch: In mast 'piece of crap' furling system

With a new sail, I'm surprised you need to use the winch at all. Boom angle made a huge difference in ease of furling for me.

 

[JamesG161]

@BroncoJohn click on the link in @jdrutten's post for how to learn the mechanism of in-mast furling.

Jim...

 

[BroncoJohn]

Thanks for the information.
It looks like the remaining friction problem I have is with the sheaves and rollers under the deck solar panel cowling. James provided a picture above showing an example of the lines routing. I will try a test by bypassing the sheaves and rollers by running the outhaul and furling loupe above the deck.
I have read a couple of posts that replacing them may not help.

 

[JamesG161]

I will try a test by bypassing the sheaves and rollers by running the outhaul and furling loupe above the deck.

Not a good idea.

Lines were routed so you can furl/unfurl the mainsail from the safety of your cockpit.
Jim...

 

[JamesG161]

Please read this link completely.

In mast 'piece of crap' furling system

I mastered my In-mast furling mechanism.

If you want , you can call me by phone.

Jim...

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

It never ceases to amaze me, the crap that floats around out there on the docks.

He advised me to furl in the main with the winch on the base of the mast and not with the continuous loop. Wow what a difference.

Firstly, I am going to assume that your in mast furling system is by Selden as it was not mentioned. Since I purchased my '99 310 new, I have never had a problem with the Selden Furlin. It can be furled in or out in 30 seconds or less. Without a winch. I haver been on a 42 ft. Hunter with a similar setup and saw the same easy performance.

I lubricate the Selden Furlin every other year or so, sheaves are checked for free movement, the endless loop is replaced every 5-10 years when it starts to get worn, and the whole system is given a once over for any problems.

As shown below, the red continuous Furlin' line is fed back to the cockpit from where it is controlled :

All routing is above deck and has minimal friction. Your below deck routing "may" be part of the problem.

If you had read the manual on the Furlin' installation you would have seen a number of reasons why you were having problems. Your under deck routing "may" have been one of the reasons for friction but I doubt it as it required a winch to overcome. This much frictional force indicates larger problems. Disassemble your continuous furling line and find the source of friction FIRST. I suspect you have damage from abuse. The other problem that comes to mind is tension (or lack thereof) in the main halyard.

Read the manufacturer's literature for information, ignore well meaning individuals who know very little about the subject and you should be further ahead than where you are now i.e. be able to furl your sail from the cockpit, furl it in a half minute, and do it easily by hand.

 

[artboas]

It never ceases to amaze me, the crap that floats around out there on the docks.



Firstly, I am going to assume that your in mast furling system is by Selden as it was not mentioned. Since I purchased my '99 310 new, I have never had a problem with the Selden Furlin. It can be furled in or out in 30 seconds or less. Without a winch. I haver been on a 42 ft. Hunter with a similar setup and saw the same easy performance.

I lubricate the Selden Furlin every other year or so, sheaves are checked for free movement, the endless loop is replaced every 5-10 years when it starts to get worn, and the whole system is given a once over for any problems.

As shown below, the red continuous Furlin' line is fed back to the cockpit from where it is controlled :

View attachment 216759

All routing is above deck and has minimal friction. Your below deck routing "may" be part of the problem.

If you had read the manual on the Furlin' installation you would have seen a number of reasons why you were having problems. Your under deck routing "may" have been one of the reasons for friction but I doubt it as it required a winch to overcome. This much frictional force indicates larger problems. Disassemble your continuous furling line and find the source of friction FIRST. I suspect you have damage from abuse. The other problem that comes to mind is tension (or lack thereof) in the main halyard.

Read the manufacturer's literature for information, ignore well meaning individuals who know very little about the subject and you should be further ahead than where you are now i.e. be able to furl your sail from the cockpit, furl it in a half minute, and do it easily by hand.

I’m going to weigh in here, if that’s ok.
Firstly, furling at the mast winch is incorrect. It. Can be unsafe, and is totally unnessary
On my 49, the sail literally flies out of the mast once the wind catches it. I always unfurl into wind, and furl the same way. With unfurling, I might put a slight bit of wind into the sail, and use the furling line to gently meter it out.
I’ve never, ever had to winch the sail out
As far as furling in, the safest way to do this is:
Head to wind.
Start to furl with 2 wraps, put pulling.
If the sail starts to come in, then throw on more wraps and crank. At the very end, only pull the last bit in.
winches can seriously damage in mast furling.
I use my electric coach roof winches (because I single hand), but always make sure that it’s running freely
As far as the deck organizers, they are there for a reason. Running the lines above deck will cause winch over-wraps
You can feel if the pulleys are jammed. They can be a source of friction, but not what you are describing. The only time a sheave block seriously binds up a line is when you are directing the line more than 90 degrees.
You need to clean and lubricate the bearings on your upper and lower bearings. Flush them with small amounts of varsol using a syringe, and then spray in silicone based lubricant
Do not use WD.
Check your halyard tension.
Whenever you hoist the sail in the track, seriously lube the bolt rope with white silicone grease. It ensures that the sail can float a bit in the track.
The selden system is the best in mast unit for this type of boat. It’s much better than Zspar, and is more costly .
Hope this is helpful

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I’m going to weigh in here, if that’s ok.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, you've been looking over my shoulder . How you can do that from Tranta, I'll never know. Right down to little tricks such as when unfurling, filling the furled main with a little wind and then using your fingertips to meter out the last of the sail so it doesn't come to a screeching stop at the end.

winches can seriously damage in mast furling.

That's the impression I got from the OP is that the first owner of the boat permanently damaged something in the furler early on in its life and wasn't interested enough or didn't know enough to repair it.

Perhaps Selden could do with a small addition to the cover page of of their installation manual.

 

[rgranger]

I've only ever used in mast furling on a charter so I should probably not weigh in but... it seems to me that if you are cranking hard on a winch with your new sail... you are probably stretching your new sail....

 

[artboas]

Unless I'm very much mistaken, you've been looking over my shoulder . How you can do that from Tranta, I'll never know. Right down to little tricks such as when unfurling, filling the furled main with a little wind and then using your fingertips to meter out the last of the sail so it doesn't come to a screeching stop at the end.



That's the impression I got from the OP is that the first owner of the boat permanently damaged something in the furler early on in its life and wasn't interested enough or didn't know enough to repair it.

Perhaps Selden could do with a small addition to the cover page of of their installation manual.

View attachment 216776

I look with a bit of confusion at this drawing, which is more of an illustration that CAD drawing
Firstly, a halyard comes down the port side of the rig going into a backwards sheet stopper.
Then, the halyard tail disappears into a hole in the side of the mast, and curls up
Around the bottom. Not sure how it gets to a winch from there

Artistic licence,,, I guess.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Artistic licence,,, I guess.

Yes, very artistic.

 

[JamesG161]

Artistic licence

Why have a in-mast mainsail in that Selden drawing?

It is unfurled already, on that boom length

Jim...

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

It is unfurled already, on that boom length

This was a bold new spar design that Selden was working on at the time with a 1:20 aspect ratio. Unfortunately, it never got off the drawing board and the entire design team was fired for being heavily under the influence while on the job .