In-mast furler new to us!

MSN-Travelers · Feb 14, 2011

prroots said:
We're getting to learn our new-to-us 2001 Beneteau 411. Yesterday we unfurled and re-furled the in-mast furling main at the dock. We then had a very difficult time unfurling it again. Turns out the leech had folded over onto itself along much of its length and tended to jam. We had to pull and shake the leech from the deck and unravel it before it would come out. Are there some important tips we should be aware of? The furler is from US Spars and the sails are Neil Pryde. We really want to fully understand the proper furling and unfurling procedure before casting off on our trip from TX to FL. We do plan to take a day sail this week to test systems. BTW, I have read the in-mast furling instructions at: US Spars.com
Thanks
Pete

We're in the same boat as you (sorta). New to us `99 Beneteau with US Spars RF mast & Neil Pryde sails. I have learned that you should look at the process in the same manner as opening/closing a window shade. You hold a window shade in the middle to ensure it rolls up evenly. If you hold one end or the other, uneven pressure will cause the shade to walk and bag on one end.

Even tension needs to be put on both the leech and foot when you furl. The angle of the boom affects this. Too high and the sail is loose/sloppy at the top. Too low and the sail is loose/sloppy at the foot. A loose/sloppy furl condition can lead to a jam when you unfurl. The vang and main sheet need to be eased so the boom "floats". Hold the outhaul line and apply a little pressure. (which you already know from the US Spars instructions.) The boom needs to float when unfurling too.

Additional notes ...

The furling line will make the whole process difficult if it is even slightly stiff or swollen. Plan on replacing the line every couple years or so. If you don't know when it was last replaced, do it now. This is something you do with the main removed.

My mast has a plastic "shield" glued to the port side of the furling slot. I think this was done by US Spars for a limited time trial as most people I've talked to don't have it. This "shield" appears to have been intended to reduce sail/mast contact and help prevent staining the sail as it rubs on the alluminium. All it does is reduce the size of the furling slot. I cut about 9 inches off the bottom last season to prevent jamming at the foot. I may remove it completely the next time I drop the mast.

McLube the hell out of the boom car & track. Same with the last four or five feet of the main.

Enjoy!

Mike B · Feb 14, 2011

Here's a couple of tips. Keep some tension on the outhaul to prevent the main from bagging up as you furl. This will also help keep the outhaul car from self destructing in heavy air. Make sure your dead into the wind as any side forces on the main will make it difficult to furl it. I sometimes will "heave to" and furl the main first. As the head sail will blanket the main it makes it fairly easy most times. As mentioned keep the outhaul car lubed. Newer cars have delrin ball bearings in them. They're small brown and require a lube like McLube. We had our last boat for over 7yrs and never had to replace the furling line but I have heard that others have had to do so. I wash the mines when I wash the boat, especially after taking a lot of spray over the deck. I think washing the salt out of them extends their life. One last suggestion is to reef early. The 411 has a lot of sail area and as you may have noticed requires a bit more muscle to unfurl, furl. Reefing early makes it easier to do. Now if I'll only take my own advice

Good luck with the 411. I always wanted to own one but never did so.

Philip_Oceanis 361 · Feb 18, 2011

I have a feeling that unless the sail is new you will always get some wrinkles. You could try adjusting the halyard tension, if not done already. Make sure there's no side pressure while furling by pointing dead into the wind.
Some people may say lift the boom using the topping lift. I would say forget that. As long as you ease main sheet (and vang if necessary) you will actually see that while the sail is furled it lifts the boom itself.
Ah, and one more important thing, try to eliminate any bend from the mast. You cannot get rid of the prebend but don't bend it even more (fitting a turnbuckle on your forestay is an excellent idea).

la Bise · Feb 23, 2011

prroots said:
We're getting to learn our new-to-us 2001 Beneteau 411. Yesterday we unfurled and re-furled the in-mast furling main at the dock. We then had a very difficult time unfurling it again. Turns out the leech had folded over onto itself along much of its length and tended to jam. We had to pull and shake the leech from the deck and unravel it before it would come out. Are there some important tips we should be aware of? The furler is from US Spars and the sails are Neil Pryde. We really want to fully understand the proper furling and unfurling procedure before casting off on our trip from TX to FL. We do plan to take a day sail this week to test systems. BTW, I have read the in-mast furling instructions at: US Spars.com
Thanks
Pete

We had the same problem on our 2010 Bene 31 and were told that up to the 2011 models, there was a defect in the design of the sail itself. We sent the sail back to Neil Pryde. It was under warranty. You might want to contact Neil Pryde.

Mike B · Feb 23, 2011

la Bise the problem you had is different. Some of the newer sails have an issue where the bottom 12" don't have enough tension on them and twist when furling. The net result is the sail wont roll into the mast. The retrofit Neil Pryde installed remedies the problem. PRROOTs problem is likely due to aged, worn components and or mainsail.

bob_pattison · Feb 28, 2011

Hi Pete,
If the boat is a 2001 AND the sail is original equipment, my honest guess is that the main is tired enough to be causing you problems.
What happens over time is that the ability of the fabric to hold its shape diminishes...through use and to some degree UV damage. The mechanical linkage of the threads and the chemical finishing (resin) start to break down and the bias (stretch at 45 degrees to the two threadlines) softens. The result is that when furling the sail moves around a bit and just doesn't furl as smoothly as when they are newer.
Typically we see sails last 8-12 years depending on latitude... as this is a good indicator of use and UV.. some go longer, some (charter sails)go faster. So at 10-11 years old, you are getting out to the top end of the life of sail.
So: my advice is try the techniques put up by your fellow sailors...but not to spend any money on re cutting or otherwise modifying the mainsail, instead, allocating that money towards a new sail in the near future.

Best,
Bob Pattison
NP Sails

Philip_Oceanis 361 · Feb 28, 2011

bob_pattison said:
Hi Pete,
So: my advice is try the techniques put up by your fellow sailors...but not to spend any money on re cutting or otherwise modifying the mainsail, instead, allocating that money towards a new sail in the near future.

Very valid point. And I would advice to pay slightly more to buy a tri- or bi-radial one.

Mike B · Mar 7, 2011

Try "heaving to" and see if works for your boat. I've done it a number of times with two different boats and it works well. The headsail will blanket the main which makes furling easier.

Mike B · Mar 7, 2011

Another thought and more logical is to simply put a reef in when the winds get into the mid to high teens. At that point you're going to have to start adjusting the trim to compensate; so why not reef early and maintain proper trim?

Ron M · Mar 7, 2011

An idea to make furling the main easier in general - check the furling (in-haul) line size. We bought a 2003 331 just last year. The previous owner has recently changed the line and went DOWN in diameter. This was at the suggestion of the local Beneteau dealer. Apparently as the line ages it swells slightly and does not fit well into the furling gear. The slightly smaller size helps. We haven't had any problems.

Mike B · Mar 7, 2011

Pete, another thing to try is slowing down to a dead crawl, just enough to keep headway, which will reduce the apparent wind and make it easier to furl. Mind you with 30 kts of wind on the nose it still wont be easy but little things do help out.

Philip_Oceanis 361 · Mar 8, 2011

If I am racing (so I don't want to stop the boat) and want to reduce sail, no matter if I am going upwind or downwind, I very carefully (using the winch) let go a bit of outhaul, furl the sail and then start again. It works.
But as I said use the winch to release the outhaul. There are huge forces on it.

msade · Mar 8, 2011

My main caused me too many problems while unfurling. I noticed that the lower part of the sail was stuck because the sail folded on itself creating a jam at the exit slot of the mast. Asked my sail maker to take out the leech line and the problem was solved.

bob_pattison · Mar 8, 2011

reefing in a breeze

Pete,
You've two different issue here..furling sails and boat handling. You can NOT furl sails in 30 knots of breeze when they are fully loaded up. If you try, you will break something or foul something.
So first things first: You have to be able to bring the boat head to wind in these conditions as at some point you will need to tack...which requires you pass through head to wind.
If you have too much sail out so that you cannot physically get the boat up into the wind, you will need to ease the genoa enough to take the load off off of it, which will automatically give you more weather helm and probably turn the boat on it's own into the wind. At this point you need to reef the genoa up immediately to get it smaller. Once done, you can bear off and see how the helm balances....if you are still on your ear, get back into the wind and furl the main some more and probably the genoa too.
Remember, if you can't control the boat by steering, you have too much sail area up for the conditions.
Once you've got the sail size correct for the conditions the boat will be easier to handle. This is true in 12, 20, 30 or 45 knots. You MUST de-power for both wind and waves to a level that makes the boat safe. The kind of problems you were having indicate that you were very overpowered.
RE: boat being unsteady and rig whipping around. This sounds very normal for big seas and 30 knots....both of which are a lot of breeze for the average sailor. Big waves and too much sail area are a recipe for a boat jumping around...but anything you do in these conditions will be difficult and require time and forethought to be safe.

Once you've got the sails set correctly and you sail in this kind of condition more often it will become easier and steadier...think of our fellow sailors in San Francisco who commonly sail in 25 knots most summer afternoons...with plenty of sea and current. They make it look easy because they've gotten comfortable with the conditions.

best,
Bob P

prroots said:
We just completed a 9 day passage from Galveston, TX to Marathon, FL. We've come to fear the in-mast furler. Under calm conditions with boat headed directly into wind, we are able to furl without problems (except for wrinkles). Under 25-30 knots and heavy seas, when we wish to furl in a bit more, we're not sure how to come directly into wind without starting engine and taking in all of the genoa. Even then, the boat is hardly steady and the rig is whipping around.