Impossible to pull up the rudder

[SFKjeld]

I have posted about this before. It is nearly impossible to get the rudder out of the water on my boat. No way could I do it alone. Even with two, really tough. Can get the top edge just above the water line. Then it's a 2 man wrestle operation to get it the rest of the way out of the water. Remember a few mentioning water damage inside the rudder can cause it to weigh too much. While this rudder has not spent much time in the water the past year, can't be sure before that. Below is a pic of some places where the wood is bare tho. Can that be part of my problem? I don't see a solution to this short of cutting a hole in the end to hook it with, or simply painting and leaving it in the water. The latter is sounding real good to me.

 

[woodster]

I have posted about this before. It is nearly impossible to get the rudder out of the water on my boat. No way could I do it alone. Even with two, really tough. Can get the top edge just above the water line. Then it's a 2 man wrestle operation to get it the rest of the way out of the water. Remember a few mentioning water damage inside the rudder can cause it to weigh too much. While this rudder has not spent much time in the water the past year, can't be sure before that. Below is a pic of some places where the wood is bare tho. Can that be part of my problem? I don't see a solution to this short of cutting a hole in the end to hook it with, or simply painting and leaving it in the water. The latter is sounding real good to me.

while you have it up in that position drill a 3/8 inch hole in the lower part which is normally the top and let it drain ...then when it has drained fill the hole back up with some epoxy putty and also repair the bare spots with some glass cloth and epoxy resin ...sand smooth and paint ....see if that will help you

 

[Benny17441]

Others complaint they cannot keep their folding rudders down. By all means allow the rudder to drain and dry and then patch up any intrusion points. Install a down haul line and a lifting line with a line holding mechanism.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Benny, I was with Kjeld earlier this week. He's right, it's a bear. Any more details on the rig necessary to lift it?

 

[SFKjeld]

Others complaint they cannot keep their folding rudders down. By all means allow the rudder to drain and dry and then patch up any intrusion points. Install a down haul line and a lifting line with a line holding mechanism.

I have a lifting line and I can get the rudder up to the water level. So is my problem that the rudder is so full of water that it is too heavy for one person to lift? Even if lighter, I still don't see an easy way to pull it out of the water.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

If you look at the photo folks, the bottom of the rudder has been damaged in the past and the repairs to say not so good. There are two things to look at.

First, did you release the pressure holding the rudder down by loosening the rudder bolt?
Is the line holding the rudder down been loosened? If yes to both and the rudder is hard to bring up, then take it off and see how much it weighs. If it is heavy, then there is water in the rudder.

You will have two choices. One to buy a new rudder or second to repair it. The inside of the rudder is foam core with fiberglass overlay/gelcoat. Not sure if there is a frame inside of it. If you want to repair it, stand THE rudder upright with a couple of small holes drilled in the bottom to allow water to escape. This will need to be upright for water to drain and also dry inside for 3-4 weeks. Then repairs to the bottom of the rudder and the holes. If the poster does not know how to repair, then suggest let someone repair it.

The thought of drilling holes into the rudder so to hook it is VERY BAD AND NOT SUGGESTED. This is not a block of wood sir.

 

[Benny17441]

Stu and Kjeld, no special rig, I was just suggesting the installation of a lifting line with perhaps the addition of a cam cleat to keep it in place once the rudder was repaired. I can see where you indicate already having a lifting line but it is not helping much because of the waterlogged weight of the rudder. Now some of these rudders are not light per-se and I'm just wondering how much water could that rudder hold by volume? A gallon or two? At 8+ lbs per gallon I would say most of the weight is already in the wood. I'm not an expert in drying wood but foresee that you would need to remove the rudder, open up some of the glass and place it in some type of drying kiln for how long it takes to dry. Finally any openings would need to be glassed over to seal it against further intrusion. Will a reduction of 8 to 16 lbs make a marked difference? Once the rudder is in the water there is no additional weight and rot will develop ever so slowly so it may be your call about repairing it now or postponing it to a future time. At the very least I would get it out of the water and paint it with anti-foul paint before putting it back. Just tie the tiller down to prevent any slap while docked. I just seen Dave's posting and if that rudder is mostly filled with foam I do not see how it could be that heavy. Like he says make sure all lines and any attachments are loosened.

 

[SFKjeld]

If you look at the photo folks, the bottom of the rudder has been damaged in the past and the repairs to say not so good. There are two things to look at.

First, did you release the pressure holding the rudder down by loosening the rudder bolt?
Is the line holding the rudder down been loosened? If yes to both and the rudder is hard to bring up, then take it off and see how much it weighs. If it is heavy, then there is water in the rudder.

You will have two choices. One to buy a new rudder or second to repair it. The inside of the rudder is foam core with fiberglass overlay/gelcoat. Not sure if there is a frame inside of it. If you want to repair it, stand THE rudder upright with a couple of small holes drilled in the bottom to allow water to escape. This will need to be upright for water to drain and also dry inside for 3-4 weeks. Then repairs to the bottom of the rudder and the holes. If the poster does not know how to repair, then suggest let someone repair it.

The thought of drilling holes into the rudder so to hook it is VERY BAD AND NOT SUGGESTED. This is not a block of wood sir.

How heavy is heavy? Lifting the rudder from outside the boat is relatively easy. Could be done with one arm without much difficulty. The problem is from a slip where it must be done from inside the boat. The line can be used to pull it 90deg to the water line. From there one must reach out far enough to grab the rudder near the end in order to lift it partly out of the water, then another person to completely pull it out. Is that normal?

I realize it is not a piece of wood. But there have been numerous posts about drilling then prepping the hole with epoxy. I might play with lassoing it, but I don't think my rodeo skills are up to it.

 

[SFKjeld]

Stu and Kjeld, no special rig, I was just suggesting the installation of a lifting line with perhaps the addition of a cam cleat to keep it in place once the rudder was repaired. I can see where you indicate already having a lifting line but it is not helping much because of the waterlogged weight of the rudder. Now some of these rudders are not light per-se and I'm just wondering how much water could that rudder hold by volume? A gallon or two? At 8+ lbs per gallon I would say most of the weight is already in the wood. I'm not an expert in drying wood but foresee that you would need to remove the rudder, open up some of the glass and place it in some type of drying kiln for how long it takes to dry. Finally any openings would need to be glassed over to seal it against further intrusion. Will a reduction of 8 to 16 lbs make a marked difference? Once the rudder is in the water there is no additional weight and rot will develop ever so slowly so it may be your call about repairing it now or postponing it to a future time. At the very least I would get it out of the water and paint it with anti-foul paint before putting it back. Just tie the tiller down to prevent any slap while docked. I just seen Dave's posting and if that rudder is mostly filled with foam I do not see how it could be that heavy. Like he says make sure all lines and any attachments are loosened.

That's what I am thinking, thanks to you and Dave. I don't think the rudder has been in the water for a significant period of time. Next, the problem raising it is about access. I think I will seal the rough spots, then paint it. Pull it out when I can (I have another guy with long arms aboard), and not worry about it otherwise.

 

[John23883]

Fishing net

I know guys that use a long handled fishing net. Get the rudder horizontal and then put the net over the end. You don't need a big net, just a long enough handle for you to reach.

 

[SFKjeld]

I know guys that use a long handled fishing net. Get the rudder horizontal and then put the net over the end. You don't need a big net, just a long enough handle for you to reach.

Oh, I love it. I'll bet that works. Thanks!

Again, how the hell did anyone learn to do anything before the internet?

 

[Fred]

On my H26 I have two plastic spacers between the tiller and the aluminum side plates. If I removed those the rudder blade would be pinched too tightly between the plates which would make it near impossible to raise the blade. I am not sure how the 23.5 rudder is supposed to be assembled but if it is the same perhaps you are missing the spacers. I do not see these spacers in your picture. When I loosen off the big tensioning screw the rudder blade swings freely.

 

[Mike in Cape Cod]

Fred is correct. There were two thin (Mylar ? ) spacers between the outside of the rudder sides and the housing that the rudder is bolted to. They are intended to reduce friction when the rudder lock bolt is loosened. Mine were missing whan I bought my boat from the original owner but i obtained replacements from Hunter. (You might try the Hunter Owners store) The discs made raising the board much easier, however, only to the horizontal position, thanks to gravity and the lousy rope pull system which has very little advantage. I wrap the rudder line around the rear stanchion/rail and lower the ladder and push the tiller to the port side and reach out and grab the end of the rudder and as I lift it I release the line. Most times this maneuver is successful ....Other times I have to repeat the maneuver and have even fallen overboard to the amusement of the crew. I also removed the board and drained it for three months and re-glasses it and painted it to no avail.........Made no difference. It's just a terrible design, like the single axle trailer that should have been a double axle design. Unsafe at any speed !

 

[kmenning]

I have only had my 23.5 for six weeks or so and have not had it in the water yet, but seeing this discussion made me look at my rudder setup. I am attaching a page from the manual that shows what it says is rudder detail. If I look at that page it appears that the uphaul should go directly up to just below the tiller from the rudder. There is also a label marked as uphaul below that but it appears to be pointing to the middle of nowhere. Anyway, on my 23.5, the uphaul goes back and under the nylon roller that is around the bolt for the friction nut first and then up to just below the tiller. (photo attached) I have no way of knowing if this is original line or if it was replaced by a previous owner that way, but to me there is a considerable difference in leverage between the two different routes. It's hard to tell on the manual page but it also looks like maybe my downhaul which just goes straight down from the tiller should actually go around the aft side of that same nylon roller. Is mine run wrong or am I misinterpreting the page in the manual?? Is there better info than that anywhere?

Ken

 

[sesmith]

My wife figured out the trick that Mike suggested a few posts up from this one and she could lift the rudder herself without my help. Take a couple of steps down the ladder, with the rudder hard over to port, you can lift it up with one arm from outside the boat. If successful, you won't join the rudder in the water.

 

[isaksp00]

I don't have that boat, but if I had to hazard a guess, and this is just a guess, it looks like the line in Ken's photo on the right (to stbd) is the downhaul. It looks like it is routed to the fore side of the white roller which I assume is the sheave noted in the diagram. That diagram looks like the downhaul should route aft of that sheave and then up to whatever it goes to by the tiller, and that would seem to offer more leverage to pull the rudder down.

My H23 has a downhaul that goes to the aft side of a sheave in the top of the aluminum rudder housing, then forward through a cam cleat. The rudder will float, which makes it a bit tough to mount in the pintles. It takes some pull on the downhaul to counteract that bouyancy. The bolt holding the rudder to the housing (the pivot) should not be tight enough to really squeeze the rudder stock - it should swing rather easily, without being so loose to swing side to side.

 

[Hugh Straub]

This is not hard. Take a piece of line and tie a loop in the end. Using the rudder lift line, bring it to horizontal. Use your boat hook to position the loop around the the end of the rudder blade. And then just pull the rudder up to vertical and tie the line off. EZPZ.

Kind regards

Hugh

 

[SFKjeld]

This is not hard. Take a piece of line and tie a loop in the end. Using the rudder lift line, bring it to horizontal. Use your boat hook to position the loop around the the end of the rudder blade. And then just pull the rudder up to vertical and tie the line off. EZPZ.

Kind regards

Hugh

Thanks Hugh. I'll give this a try. Tho if a solution does not involve a minimum of a three figure Visa charge, I just have to wonder if it will actually work.... First time for everything I suppose.

Cheers! Kjeld

 

[Brian M H23]

If you really want a hole to hook it a lifting line, I'd suggest screwing a small stainless pad-eye into the bottom. Far less damaging than drilling a big ol hole through the rudder. Just coat the screws well with epoxy.

Turn rudder hard to one side, clip a snap hook into the pad eye, and lift away.

 

[SFKjeld]

This is not hard. Take a piece of line and tie a loop in the end. Using the rudder lift line, bring it to horizontal. Use your boat hook to position the loop around the the end of the rudder blade. And then just pull the rudder up to vertical and tie the line off. EZPZ.

Kind regards

Hugh

Good grief. Decided to try to loop the blade with a piece of line, which I think will work. Now I can barely get the blade down into the water! Just a week ago I could barely hold it from splashing into the water. The amount of growth from being in the water for just a few weeks is crazy. Am sure it has bound up the blade on pivoting bolt. Looks like I need a lot more paint on the rudder than I thought. Either that or take the damn thing off the boat when not in use.

Need to pull it off. I guess I just pull the circlip off the top pin, and lift if off, right?