Importance Of Telltales

[Don Guillette]

Numerous articles and books (including mine) have infomation on how to read telltales. This subject has come up in the past (OldCat brought it up yesterday on another thread) and it comes up because telltales are an important aspect of sail trim. It really isn't a very complicated subject. Some books go into great detail but I condensed and boiled it down so that a beginner to high intermediate can easily understand what their telltales are telling them. Everything a beginner need to know is contained in about 5 or 6 pages. If you decided to highlight the important parts all 5 pages would be completely yellow!!

Telltales are absolutely the most important sail trim indicators on your boat. No non-electronic or electronic devise has been developed that approaches the effectiveness and sensitivity of telltales on your main and jib. Sadly, a majority of sailors do not have telltales on their sails or shrouds. How they trim their sails without them is beyond me. I can't get that last amount of effectivness out of the sails without them and I know what I'm looking for. Many boats do have telltales attached but unfortunately the skipper/trimmers don't know how to read them.

Space here does not permit a detailed discussion but here's a small sample. Suppose your sailing along close hauled and your inside jib telltales starts flipping or suppose the outside telltale is flipping - what simple correction can you make to get them streaming? If the inside one is flipping - trim in. If the ouside one is flipping - ease out.

Suppose the top mainsail telltale is curling. What is that telling you? You have too much twist. See how simple it is to read them.

Telltales are sold by SAILBOATOWNERS.COM and they cost only about $7.00. Do yourself a favor and immediately pop on over to the ship store and order a set. Get some for the shrouds also. Check out all the other neat stuff they sell. You should shop at their ships store first. After all, does West Marine or BoatUS provide these forums for you? Of course they don't.

Think of it this way. You easily spend $7 for a 6 pack of Sam Adams and we all know where the Sam Adams goes - over the side!! For $7 you get the most important sail trim indicator on your boat - and you get to keep it.

 

[Alan]

Damn Don, you sure said a mouthful
I totally agree that telltales are THE most important sail trim device we've yet found.

I've been wondering though, which should I have 'racing' telltales or 'cruising' telltales'???

 

[Clark]

I've had a furler on a Capri 22; removed it a couple of weeks ago. On it and our other boat with a furler; the jib tells have never flown. I've tried manually flipping them to break them free, spraying w/ an antistatic to no avail. Any advice? I have them on my main leech and use them religiously.
Secondly, how do you use tells on the shrouds? I would think that the leeward tells would always be in the slot and the windward ones would just be a lower apparent wind indicator than the vane. Help here would be appreciated too on how to read them.

Edit, I'm hoping that on my hanked sails for the Capri, the tells won't be permanently stuck to the sail . . :cussing:

 

[Don Guillette]

Alan: Yes, bless me lord how could I have forgotten to include the difference between racing and cruising telltails. Racing telltales are very, very expensive and very hard to find. Don't bother asking the manager at West Marine or BoatUS for racing telltales as he'll look at you like your crazy but that is because he keeps a set for himself and the rest for his personal friends and he doesn't want outsiders to have them.

Actually, I'm the only one who makes/sells them and there is a 6 week wait on each order. It takes 6 weeks to make each set. They are scientifically balanced and that is what takes the time. They are actually made from womans hair. Not just any womans hair - only blond hair is used. I've experimented with other colors and they just don't work as well as blond. Red hair is the worst. It has to be from a REAL blond and it is very hard to find REAL blonds and that is another delay. You have no idea what I have to go through to find REAL blonds. Many Tucson ladies try to fool me with hair coloring but I'm wise to them. They always fail my final secret test and many walk away angry but that is too bad because I have a business to run and my reputation to guard.

Additionally, the blond lady must be under 5'2" and weigh less that 115 lbs. I've found weight/height to be a very critical element in the production of racing telltales and in the active adult community where I live this causes more delays. The height is easy but the weight is something else. Most are overweight like me.

Since I've known you so long I'm going to send you a free set. Keep checking your mail box every day and don't mention to Joe from San Diego, Stu J or RichH that I gave you a free set because they'll want free stuff also.

One last point, don't show my racing telltales to your wife as you may create explantion problems for yourself. No matter what you tell her she won't believe you. As soon as you get them just slap them on the sail. If she seees them later just ignore her questions and change the subject and she'll forget about it.

 

[woodster]

One last point, don't show my racing telltales to your wife as you may create explantion problems for yourself. No matter what you tell her she won't believe you. As soon as you get them just slap them on the sail. If she seees them later just ignore her questions and change the subject and she'll forget about it.

:stirthepot: YEA RIGHT!!!!!!! until 20 years later then it comes up again

regards

woody

 

[Don Guillette]

Clark: The wind doesn't care if the jib is a hank on or furler. Think of the jib as a blade cutting the wind in half and equally flowing on both side. If one telltail is flipping it's telling you that you're not 'in the grove" and an adjustment must be made. Think of a wind tunnell.

The reason I like shroud telltails is that I got sick of cranning my neck looking up at the telltails - my neck hurt after a couple of hours. If I see both shroud telltails streaming I know I'm "in the grove" and then I look up the sails to be sure.

The above is not a scientific explantion but it's how I describe it to beginners.

If your telltails are stuck to the jib maybe you should order my "racing telltails". Before anyone takes me seriously, that exchange with Alan was a joke.

 

[cwkemp]

One last point, don't show my racing telltales to your wife as you may create explantion problems for yourself. No matter what you tell her she won't believe you. As soon as you get them just slap them on the sail. If she seees them later just ignore her questions and change the subject and she'll forget about it.

Mr. Guillette,
I don't believe I've seen another of your posts that hit such a high note of hilarity as this that "discloses the secrets" of racing telltales. Funny stuff.
But...
If your serious, I need the next set, as soon as they're ready, name your price.
Clint

 

[Don Guillette]

Woody: You're right!! Perhaps you knew my ex-wife. Her name was Joan and she was from Worcester, Ma. To this day, she reminds me that I didn't take her to her senior prom!! We graduated in 1957 - what a memory she has. She also has a whole list of other things she brings up from the dark ages.

That being said - every attribute she has is exactly what I look for in woman. If it wasn't for her I wouldn't be where I am today. She kept me on the straight track because I was an absolute screw off in my early years. Some times some of us guys waste good woman but a mate like me can't live in the past.

 

[cwkemp]

I've had a furler on a Capri 22; removed it a couple of weeks ago. On it and our other boat with a furler; the jib tells have never flown. I've tried manually flipping them to break them free, spraying w/ an antistatic to no avail. Any advice? I have them on my main leech and use them religiously.
Secondly, how do you use tells on the shrouds? I would think that the leeward tells would always be in the slot and the windward ones would just be a lower apparent wind indicator than the vane. Help here would be appreciated too on how to read them.

Edit, I'm hoping that on my hanked sails for the Capri, the tells won't be permanently stuck to the sail . . :cussing:

What material have you used for the tells? I have found that thin woolen yarn, one color for port and another for st'brd work very well against dacron. Also placement may be an issue. I use strips cut from plastic grocery bags for the leech tells, attached with a small square of gorilla tape, cheap, plenty of spare material, and easy to replace.
I use yarn on the shrouds. I have gotten used to the angle they fly at when I'm trimmed and in the groove to windward, and they also make the apparent wind easier to see from the beam and abaft, especially in light air.

 

[woodster]

Woody: You're right!! Perhaps you knew my ex-wife. Her name was Joan and she was from Worcester, Ma. To this day, she reminds me that I didn't take her to her senior prom!! We graduated in 1957 - what a memory she has. She also has a whole list of other things she brings up from the dark ages.

That being said - every attribute she has is exactly what I look for in woman. If it wasn't for her I wouldn't be where I am today. She kept me on the straight track because I was an absolute screw off in my early years. Some times some of us guys waste good woman but a mate like me can't live in the past.

you have no idea how credable that makes you in your statement well at least in my eyes Don ....i am glad to see some one who can move on and learn from his mistakes and not be bitter about the wrong turns they have made ...as they say "True love travels on a gravel road" or in our case a rough sea......


regards

woody

 

[Clark]

Thanks guys.
I'll try some different material - maybe it won't get plastered to the sail fabric. I hadn't changed from what the sail maker had used.
My complaint about furl vs hank was that rolling up the sail would apparently "glue" the tell to the fabric.

 

[Kermit]

Clark: The wind doesn't care if the jib is a hank on or furler. Think of the jib as a blade cutting the wind in half and equally flowing on both side. If one telltail is flipping it's telling you that you're not 'in the grove" and an adjustment must be made. Think of a wind tunnell.

The reason I like shroud telltails is that I got sick of cranning my neck looking up at the telltails - my neck hurt after a couple of hours. If I see both shroud telltails streaming I know I'm "in the grove" and then I look up the sails to be sure.

My ASA 101 instructor explained tell-tales this way: He described tell-tales as needing to be happy. He then said, "What do you do if your wife isn't happy?" My reply was to turn away from her. He then said, "Right. If she's not happy you turn away from her. If the tell-tale isn't happy, turn the boat away from the unhappy tell-tale." This makes especially good sense to me on the jib. If the windward tell-tale is fluttering, I turn to leeward. If the leeward tell-tale is fluttering, I turn to windward. Or I adjust the sail oppositely. If the windward tell-tale is fluttering, instead of turning to leeward, I adjust the tension to windward.

Wateree Lake is so narrow that it seems like I'm either always sailing close-hauled or on a broad reach. So the sails pretty much stay the same tension so I must adjust the direction of the boat. Works pretty well.

I just recently told my first mate what the instructor said about turning away from her. She thought is was pretty funny.

As for the shrouds, he suggested I use old cassette tape. I bought one at Goodwill for 50 cents. They last a long time and are easy to attach. They are extremely sensitive to the wind. A hail storm removed our Windex. We have no plans for replacing it. The cassette tape works great!

Kermit

 

[OldCat]

Secondly, how do you use tells on the shrouds? I would think that the leeward tells would always be in the slot and the windward ones would just be a lower apparent wind indicator than the vane. Help here would be appreciated too on how to read them

Clearly the leeward one is just giving slot flow.

I doubt that either works in the true sense of giving actual apparent wind identically to a masthead fly, I would guess that even the windward is affected to some extent by the sails. But the windward fly still a reasonably accurate indicator that you can learn to sail to. Not as precise as tell tales, but I can generally tell if I am pinching, or sailing too low to keep flow attached. Ancient magnetic recording tape works really well.

I agree with Don - looking up at the sky is hard on the eyes. Especially at 5k feet where the UV is even worse.

OC

 

[wufibugs]

Why is it always left to me to ask the really stupid questions? Wait, don't answer that.
Is there somewhere I can find instructions on how and exactly where to mount my soon-to-be nifty cassette telltales on main, jib & shrouds?

 

[WayneH]

Don't use CLASSICAL or METAL music tapes, they're too heavy to fly right. Use easy listening tapes.

 

[Kermit]

I just tie the cassette tape to the shrouds at an easy-to-see level. I have tell-tales already attached to the sails. Good thing about using the shrouds is you can slide the tape up and down.

Just to be clear, the tape on the shrouds does NOT indicate proper sail trim. Simply wind direction. And yes, it's the windward tape that gives the better indication of wind.

 

[Alan]

wufibugs, the jib telltales are attached on both sides of the sail in three sets of two at evenly spaced lengths along the luff of the sail about six inches behind the front of the luff.

On the main sail they can be placed all long the leech of the sail as many as you wish. You can also apply several next to the top draft stripe on both sides of the main which will allow you to 'read' the breeze as it flows along the width of the sail. If you don't have any draft stripes this would be a great time to add them. Makes it so much easier to judge the amount and location of draft.

 

[OldCat]

Why is it always left to me to ask the really stupid questions? Wait, don't answer that.
Is there somewhere I can find instructions on how and exactly where to mount my soon-to-be nifty cassette telltales on main, jib & shrouds?

My intent was to recommend using magnetic recording tape only on the shrouds, not the sails. Use several, and try different shrouds since they can get wiped off by the head sail. At least the tape is cheap.

Also, I prefer these http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|311631&id=74383 on the shrouds, since I think that they are more stable and the wind angle is easier to read (the tape flutters).

On a sail, I just use the standard red/green strips. I did not see them on this site's store, so here is a link for the sail tell-tales: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|311631&id=74112

OC

 

[Don Guillette]

OldCat: Yup, they sell telltales at the ships store on this site.

Listers following this thread - now that we know where to place them and that info is always included on the packaging - except my brand and Alan is working on the wording!! - which ones are the most important one on the main and jib.

On the jib, the most important telltails are the middle ones. On the mainsail - the most important telltail is the top one. That is your TWIST indicator. If you like sailing with a twisted main, as about 60% of the sailors worldwide do, let that telltail flop all over the place and curl. If you don't believe me that 60% of the sailors sail that way, just check out the boats you see on the water the next time your sailing. Report back to the forum with your findings!!!

 

[Kermit]

Don, Thanks for explaining the upper telltales. Those have always been the hardest for me to get right. So, do you mind explaining twist and how to untwist? I have an '86 Hunter 23 with no boom vang. But I do have a topping lift.

Thanks!

Kermit

p.s. How do you pronounce your last name? At first glance, it appears to rhyme with the razor blade company. But then it almost looks like it almost sorta sound like a head-chopper-offer. Inquiring minds want to know!
jw