Impellers and Keel Joints....

[Mike B]

Generally springtime

I generally replace my impeller at the beginning of the season and try not to let them go more than 100-120 hrs. I also keep a close eye on how much water she's spitting while I'm under power. If it appears as though it's diminished I replace the impeller.I always inspect the keel bolts for corrosion whenever I'm inspecting the bilge, which is frequent, just for good measure.

 

[Mike B]

Generally springtime

I generally replace my impeller at the beginning of the season and try not to let them go more than 100-120 hrs. I also keep a close eye on how much water she's spitting while I'm under power. If it appears as though it's diminished I replace the impeller.I always inspect the keel bolts for corrosion whenever I'm inspecting the bilge, which is frequent, just for good measure.

 

[Chris Burti]

What me Worry?

Maine Sail,That was point (inferentially for those familiar with the infamous 'Catalina Smile') that I was so poorly trying to make. As the question apparently concerned a Hunter, I didn't think the Catalina history was fairly on point as using it could suggest that I was implying that the Hunters might have a similar design issue. I don't know enough about them to comment.As to the Catalina keel stub problem you referenced, it was a design issue that Catalina improved as you noted. It also was not, to my understanding, one that was much more than a general PITA as long as you kept the bolts torqued annually.Nice and Easy,Good point on sandy groundings. Lesson learned in the sand. First thing to go in the pump is the cover plate where the sand in the impeller grinds circular grooves. Our experience was that the pump quit and we cut off the engine before there was significant damage to the pump. An hour of sanding the plate on a flat surface and reassembly with the spare impeller restored its ability to pump and we were on our way again.

 

[Chris Burti]

What me Worry?

Maine Sail,That was point (inferentially for those familiar with the infamous 'Catalina Smile') that I was so poorly trying to make. As the question apparently concerned a Hunter, I didn't think the Catalina history was fairly on point as using it could suggest that I was implying that the Hunters might have a similar design issue. I don't know enough about them to comment.As to the Catalina keel stub problem you referenced, it was a design issue that Catalina improved as you noted. It also was not, to my understanding, one that was much more than a general PITA as long as you kept the bolts torqued annually.Nice and Easy,Good point on sandy groundings. Lesson learned in the sand. First thing to go in the pump is the cover plate where the sand in the impeller grinds circular grooves. Our experience was that the pump quit and we cut off the engine before there was significant damage to the pump. An hour of sanding the plate on a flat surface and reassembly with the spare impeller restored its ability to pump and we were on our way again.

 

[higgs]

Impeller

generally, I do mine every other year, though I may start going longer, though I will check it. The impeller I have now has about 300 hours on it and it looks great. On my A4, I was concerned about a blade lodging itself somewhere I could not retrieve it. The yanmar 3QM I now have has screens to stop a broken blade from getting lost. The first summer with this new boat I did not check the impeller as the previous PO had Crowley's in Chicago do everything to the boat. I incorrectly assumed that meant checking the impeller. When I checked it I found only one blade still attached, yet the engine had not overheated. There were times I ran it up to 10 hours straight.

 

[higgs]

Impeller

generally, I do mine every other year, though I may start going longer, though I will check it. The impeller I have now has about 300 hours on it and it looks great. On my A4, I was concerned about a blade lodging itself somewhere I could not retrieve it. The yanmar 3QM I now have has screens to stop a broken blade from getting lost. The first summer with this new boat I did not check the impeller as the previous PO had Crowley's in Chicago do everything to the boat. I incorrectly assumed that meant checking the impeller. When I checked it I found only one blade still attached, yet the engine had not overheated. There were times I ran it up to 10 hours straight.

 

[Don12364]

Keel Hingeing

In about 1999 I promised Warren Luhrs that I could do this to almost any of his production boats of that era. I believe this would require thrashing the boat to windward very much heeled over and in a very rough sea so that the stub hinged or flexed until it eventually failed. Plywood mini bulkheads support the walls of the stub internally below the point where stub meets canoe body and prevent this collapsing, leaving the bit of laminate between underside of hull and top of stub only supported by fibreglass tabbing to the internal sub-frame. After noticing signs of gel coat cracking externally and cracks in the tabbing internally I measured the wall thickness of mine AND immediately had it reinforced under warranty. The layup of the keel stub is only about half the thickness recommended by a designer friend of mine and the keel stubs can, and probably do, flex or hinge whilst the boat under way. Eventually the ply mini bulkheads could begin to rot also so I keep my keel stub DRY.Seems possible that the flat on the back of the lead might have been done when the keel hit the bottom AFTER detaching itself from the hull if the bottom was rock.Equally, if she had pounded on a reef this could cause this type of failure. Only close examination of the hull would show the actual cause but, if the latter, I would expect to see significant internal detachment of the sub-frameHappy New Year to All!

 

[Don12364]

Keel Hingeing

In about 1999 I promised Warren Luhrs that I could do this to almost any of his production boats of that era. I believe this would require thrashing the boat to windward very much heeled over and in a very rough sea so that the stub hinged or flexed until it eventually failed. Plywood mini bulkheads support the walls of the stub internally below the point where stub meets canoe body and prevent this collapsing, leaving the bit of laminate between underside of hull and top of stub only supported by fibreglass tabbing to the internal sub-frame. After noticing signs of gel coat cracking externally and cracks in the tabbing internally I measured the wall thickness of mine AND immediately had it reinforced under warranty. The layup of the keel stub is only about half the thickness recommended by a designer friend of mine and the keel stubs can, and probably do, flex or hinge whilst the boat under way. Eventually the ply mini bulkheads could begin to rot also so I keep my keel stub DRY.Seems possible that the flat on the back of the lead might have been done when the keel hit the bottom AFTER detaching itself from the hull if the bottom was rock.Equally, if she had pounded on a reef this could cause this type of failure. Only close examination of the hull would show the actual cause but, if the latter, I would expect to see significant internal detachment of the sub-frameHappy New Year to All!

 

[Stillraining]

Mainsail

It looks to me that keel was removed on purpose. Whoever posted the coment about the nuts looking like they are still atached, need's to look closer. The bolts have ben cut with a cutting torch, ( you can even see change of color, meaning temper was changed due to heating ) Also the gringing off of the jelcoat in my opinion was to find the best place to cut it free or to see if adding glass could fix the problum. If you look at the edges of the top of the keel they look cut by a high speed cutoff tool. There is no tear-out anywhere it is cut all neatly all the way around. ( A little in the front is all ) I believe this is a major keel replacement "Before" it fell fell off. Probably weakened/cracked by the dammage/hit taken to the keel.PS; All the rotten wood and crap hanging down from the boat is interior sub framing of the keel trunk that looks like it was well rotted and probably lead to its weakened condition.

 

[Stillraining]

Mainsail

It looks to me that keel was removed on purpose. Whoever posted the coment about the nuts looking like they are still atached, need's to look closer. The bolts have ben cut with a cutting torch, ( you can even see change of color, meaning temper was changed due to heating ) Also the gringing off of the jelcoat in my opinion was to find the best place to cut it free or to see if adding glass could fix the problum. If you look at the edges of the top of the keel they look cut by a high speed cutoff tool. There is no tear-out anywhere it is cut all neatly all the way around. ( A little in the front is all ) I believe this is a major keel replacement "Before" it fell fell off. Probably weakened/cracked by the dammage/hit taken to the keel.PS; All the rotten wood and crap hanging down from the boat is interior sub framing of the keel trunk that looks like it was well rotted and probably lead to its weakened condition.

 

[Sandy Stone]

Pearson 26 keel

Although the bottom of the keel stub on a Pearson 26 is cored with plywood, it is my understanding that the factory drilled oversize holes for the keelbolts, filled them in with fiberglass mash, then redrilled correctly sized holes. Unless the boat was damaged in a grounding or something, I don't think the plywood would get exposed to water.

 

[bffatcat]

Keel bolts maintenence Mainsails Comment

I sail a 1975 Pearson 26W out Marblehead MA There are probably a dozen P26`sin my harbor. None of them seem to be having keel problems course I dont think there is too much running aground in my area. Me included. I had the boat eight years and havent run aground. My area has plenty of deep water. Plenty of rocks too, but I avoid them. I had no idea that running aground could do the extensive damage as described in mainsails post. My feeling about keels has been this. before launching every season I check the hull joint. If any caulking seems looseI scrape it out and reseal the joint with 5200. As long as the boat isnt leakingI figure my keel bolts are ok. About 10 years ago a friend of mine had the keelbolts replaced in an late 60`s columbia 26. The cost was $4000.00 Seems tome that replacing the keel bolts and putting a ripped off or fallen off keel backon a 30 year old 26' boat gotta cost more than the replacement value of the boat.

 

[Maine Sail]

Sandy..

Quote:" Although the bottom of the keel stub on a Pearson 26 is cored with plywood, it is my understanding that the factory drilled oversize holes for the keelbolts, filled them in with fiberglass mash, then redrilled correctly sized holes. Unless the boat was damaged in a grounding or something, I don't think the plywood would get exposed to water."Take a look at this picture closely and you'll see that there is no sign of what you describe and the plywood is compressed something which solid glass "mash" will not do.. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/91483428.jpg

 

[Sandy Stone]

Well...

I'd be curious to hear the whole story behind that picture. I mean, it sort of looks like the plywood swelled (swole?) up when it got wet, except in the vicinity of the keelbolt. And if that is a keelbolt in the center of the picture, it doesn't look anything like the ones on my old P26-OD. I think mine were stainless (it's been awhile) and they were pristine.Don't get me wrong, a boat is a boat, and after enough years anything can happen. I'm just wondering if something unusual happened to this one.

 

[Maine Sail]

The story..

The story as told to me is the boat found the bottom, not unusual, and the keel cracked away from the hull swamping the boat in a few seconds. It sat on the ledge for a couple of days before it was removed with the keel hanging by one side.As for the bolts many of the early P-26's used iron bolts and this was an early one. I was very curious about the keel construction because I had also had to remove a plywood core in my Catalina 30 so I spent some time looking at it and snapped a few pictures. There was no sign of the keel bolt holes being potted and around one, which I did not capture in the photo's, the wood was totally rotted. My guess, from the way the fiberglass is peeled away from the wood so cleanly is that the wood got wet, the glass then delaminated from the wood and lost strength. In this case when it hit bottom there was barely 3/16 of an inch of glass holding the keel on because the structural integrity due to water ingress was lost..With any boat that has plywood laminated into the keel stub it's imperative to keep that wood dry! If it gets wet the glass will lose it's grip and the structural properties of the laminated stub will have been compromised.In this picture you can see how cleanly the glass separated from the wood:http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/91483427.jpg

 

[bffatcat]

pearson 26 Keel more

My 75 p26w is coming up on its 33 season the keel bolts are galvanized and coated over with epoxy. Ive never seen or heard of stainless keel bolts ona pearson of this vintage nor have I heard about them giving trouble. My keel bolts and keel are solid. No seep no leaks. Dont forget this is not an old catalina or columbia were talking about here. The construction is not the same. These old pearsons have a reputation for being solid. The boat in the pictures looks like it was pounded on the rocks in a storm to suffer damage like that