Impellers and Keel Joints....

[Warren Milberg]

I'd like to hear from others on two subjects:1. How often do you replace the impeller in your inboard raw water pump? (I change mine every 2-3 yrs in my Yanmar 2GM20F. I normally put 60-70 hours per season on my boat so that adds up to less than 200 hrs on the impeller. Yet each time I replace it, the old one looks and feels like it could safely go for another couple of seasons -- I have lots of spares).2. The current issue of 'Practical Sailor' discusses on the back page the idea of removing a fin keel in order to reseal the keel/hull joint. This sounds like a pretty radical and expensive fix for a problem most everyone has with an externally mounted fin-type keel. In all my years of sailing, I have never heard of a keel acutally falling off other than when someone has hit a rock or run up on a reef. Even the older Catalina 25 and some other boats that actually had mild steel keel boats don't lose their keels. I've always dealt with the keel/hull "smile" in a way I think most of us do: scrape out the crack and refill it with epoxy, MarineTex or even 3M5200 or similar caulk/adhesive if the crack is minor. I have also had boats that I've had the keel bolts torqued to tighten them up a bit prior to doing the above fix. But I've never dropped a keel to repair this joint and probably never would. So....the question is: have you ever dropped a keel to fix this problem? Given the difficulty and expense, would you do this type of repair? Has anyone actually had a keel fall off in normal usage? An inquiring mind wants to know.....

 

[Warren Milberg]

I'd like to hear from others on two subjects:1. How often do you replace the impeller in your inboard raw water pump? (I change mine every 2-3 yrs in my Yanmar 2GM20F. I normally put 60-70 hours per season on my boat so that adds up to less than 200 hrs on the impeller. Yet each time I replace it, the old one looks and feels like it could safely go for another couple of seasons -- I have lots of spares).2. The current issue of 'Practical Sailor' discusses on the back page the idea of removing a fin keel in order to reseal the keel/hull joint. This sounds like a pretty radical and expensive fix for a problem most everyone has with an externally mounted fin-type keel. In all my years of sailing, I have never heard of a keel acutally falling off other than when someone has hit a rock or run up on a reef. Even the older Catalina 25 and some other boats that actually had mild steel keel boats don't lose their keels. I've always dealt with the keel/hull "smile" in a way I think most of us do: scrape out the crack and refill it with epoxy, MarineTex or even 3M5200 or similar caulk/adhesive if the crack is minor. I have also had boats that I've had the keel bolts torqued to tighten them up a bit prior to doing the above fix. But I've never dropped a keel to repair this joint and probably never would. So....the question is: have you ever dropped a keel to fix this problem? Given the difficulty and expense, would you do this type of repair? Has anyone actually had a keel fall off in normal usage? An inquiring mind wants to know.....

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Impeller replacement

Like you, I change mine every year or two, depending on usage, although I have never found it to be necessary, just peace of mind.I'd never drop the keel (just for fun) unless there was some overt reason to do so and the typical "smile" on some boats doesn't seem like a sufficient reason to me as long as they are torqued properly

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Impeller replacement

Like you, I change mine every year or two, depending on usage, although I have never found it to be necessary, just peace of mind.I'd never drop the keel (just for fun) unless there was some overt reason to do so and the typical "smile" on some boats doesn't seem like a sufficient reason to me as long as they are torqued properly

 

[Chris Burti]

you asked

1. Annually...for me it is simply peace of mind. Last year's spare gets put into service, buy a new spare and throw out the old one. Rubber ages and I don't want to be wondering and worrying if my spare is going to fail if I have to use it to replace a damaged in-service impeller. 2. I have no first hand knowledge of a keel falling off in over 40 years of messing around in boats. I seem to recall reading about one credible account on a production cruiser and, of course, there are the reports (not unexpected) of big race boat keel failures. Ophelia put our C-320 hard aground in a cypress marsh. In dragging her out, the salvor bent the rudder shaft and put some deep gashes all the way to the lead in the keel...yet, no smile. If it were my boat, I'd be very curious as to why the keel joint keeps opening up...it suggests a structural problem that may not be any real threat, but I'm not very tolerant of such concerns for very long.

 

[Chris Burti]

you asked

1. Annually...for me it is simply peace of mind. Last year's spare gets put into service, buy a new spare and throw out the old one. Rubber ages and I don't want to be wondering and worrying if my spare is going to fail if I have to use it to replace a damaged in-service impeller. 2. I have no first hand knowledge of a keel falling off in over 40 years of messing around in boats. I seem to recall reading about one credible account on a production cruiser and, of course, there are the reports (not unexpected) of big race boat keel failures. Ophelia put our C-320 hard aground in a cypress marsh. In dragging her out, the salvor bent the rudder shaft and put some deep gashes all the way to the lead in the keel...yet, no smile. If it were my boat, I'd be very curious as to why the keel joint keeps opening up...it suggests a structural problem that may not be any real threat, but I'm not very tolerant of such concerns for very long.

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Warren, our raw water impeller was replaced...

by the PO sometime before we purchase her. That one still works fine and that was six years ago. I have a new spare, but I figure it will go another few years. So far we have put almost 600 hours since we took ownership in 2002.We had a local yard drop and re-bed the keel three years ago to stop a small leak. Unless yours is leaking I would torque the keel bolts at the next haul out and apply 3M5200 around the joint. I've never lost a keel. Pretty difficult to tear one off of a Hunter the way they install them.Terry

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Warren, our raw water impeller was replaced...

by the PO sometime before we purchase her. That one still works fine and that was six years ago. I have a new spare, but I figure it will go another few years. So far we have put almost 600 hours since we took ownership in 2002.We had a local yard drop and re-bed the keel three years ago to stop a small leak. Unless yours is leaking I would torque the keel bolts at the next haul out and apply 3M5200 around the joint. I've never lost a keel. Pretty difficult to tear one off of a Hunter the way they install them.Terry

 

[Maine Sail]

But Chris

Quote: Chris"Ophelia put our C-320 hard aground in a cypress marsh. In dragging her out, the salvor bent the rudder shaft and put some deep gashes all the way to the lead in the keel...yet, no smile."Chris, A good majority of Catalina's built since late 1987 don't get the smile like earlier models do. Catalina stopped laminating their keel stubs with plywood in late 1987 and this greatly reduced the number of Catalina "smiles". Earlier, pre-1987, models have plywood laminated into the keel stubs to save cost and labor. Over time this plywood can get wet from being surrounded by water both on the exterior of the hull and the interior "bilge water". Once this wood gets wet it begins to delaminate then rot. This can then lead to corrosion of the keel bolts. Your keel stub is SOLID fiberglass, the way it should be, so you ahve nothing to worry about. You probably never get the traditional smile unless you hit something really hard... Read this thead for more info on plywood laminated keel stubs: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39779

 

[Maine Sail]

But Chris

Quote: Chris"Ophelia put our C-320 hard aground in a cypress marsh. In dragging her out, the salvor bent the rudder shaft and put some deep gashes all the way to the lead in the keel...yet, no smile."Chris, A good majority of Catalina's built since late 1987 don't get the smile like earlier models do. Catalina stopped laminating their keel stubs with plywood in late 1987 and this greatly reduced the number of Catalina "smiles". Earlier, pre-1987, models have plywood laminated into the keel stubs to save cost and labor. Over time this plywood can get wet from being surrounded by water both on the exterior of the hull and the interior "bilge water". Once this wood gets wet it begins to delaminate then rot. This can then lead to corrosion of the keel bolts. Your keel stub is SOLID fiberglass, the way it should be, so you ahve nothing to worry about. You probably never get the traditional smile unless you hit something really hard... Read this thead for more info on plywood laminated keel stubs: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39779

 

[Maine Sail]

Terry..

Terry,Take a look at the photos in this thread. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39782 Keels do come off and while not very common it can and does happen although usually one must strike something as this guy did...Hunter Keel: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39782

 

[Maine Sail]

Terry..

Terry,Take a look at the photos in this thread. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39782 Keels do come off and while not very common it can and does happen although usually one must strike something as this guy did...Hunter Keel: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39782

 

[sailaway78]

every other year for me

I change my impeller ever other year. I do it on even years, so I don't have to remember whether it's the proper year or not. Like others have stated, it is very cheap insurance, and also gives you the opportunity to check the pump itself, the interior wear and the seals. Going till it no longer works just doesn't get it for me. Over time, as the impeller wears, the amount of water it pumps decreases, and when it no will no longer cool the engine, it's too late. Also I live in an area with lots of sand. You can bump bottom and have to power off, which can do some pretty serious damage to a water pump.

 

[sailaway78]

every other year for me

I change my impeller ever other year. I do it on even years, so I don't have to remember whether it's the proper year or not. Like others have stated, it is very cheap insurance, and also gives you the opportunity to check the pump itself, the interior wear and the seals. Going till it no longer works just doesn't get it for me. Over time, as the impeller wears, the amount of water it pumps decreases, and when it no will no longer cool the engine, it's too late. Also I live in an area with lots of sand. You can bump bottom and have to power off, which can do some pretty serious damage to a water pump.

 

[Warren Milberg]

Wow... that is some

photo of the Hunter 426 without keel posted by Maine Sail! Ya gotta wonder what the whole story on that boat was. Whatever resulted in the keel parting ways from the hull, it had something or other to do with the 90-deg bend in the aft end of that keel. I hope the owners were buckled up when that occurred...."Hello, BoatUS Insurance? You'll never guess what happened to my boat today while out sailing."

 

[Warren Milberg]

Wow... that is some

photo of the Hunter 426 without keel posted by Maine Sail! Ya gotta wonder what the whole story on that boat was. Whatever resulted in the keel parting ways from the hull, it had something or other to do with the 90-deg bend in the aft end of that keel. I hope the owners were buckled up when that occurred...."Hello, BoatUS Insurance? You'll never guess what happened to my boat today while out sailing."

 

[Rick D]

Saw A Totalled 420

...that hit a pipeline at full throttle and speed. It was pretty new and was in the yard. There was damage to the pan grid and hull ahead of the stub, but nothing at all to indicate keel separation. In fact, the boat looked very repairable and I'm sure someone did. I suspect the insurance company just didn't want to deal with the time, cost and customer. The salvage value must have been a ton too, further making their decision to total it easier. In fact, this one looks repairable too. Which brings up another point, which is with all the hurricane boats on the market, a good history is important when purchasing. RD

 

[Rick D]

Saw A Totalled 420

...that hit a pipeline at full throttle and speed. It was pretty new and was in the yard. There was damage to the pan grid and hull ahead of the stub, but nothing at all to indicate keel separation. In fact, the boat looked very repairable and I'm sure someone did. I suspect the insurance company just didn't want to deal with the time, cost and customer. The salvage value must have been a ton too, further making their decision to total it easier. In fact, this one looks repairable too. Which brings up another point, which is with all the hurricane boats on the market, a good history is important when purchasing. RD

 

[Peter Milne]

A Bavaria Lost its Keel

Warren,There was much ado in Europe in 2005 or 06 when a 40 foot Bavaria in charter that had run aground then when the next clients took it out the keel dropped off,the boat turtled with a loss of life.

 

[Peter Milne]

A Bavaria Lost its Keel

Warren,There was much ado in Europe in 2005 or 06 when a 40 foot Bavaria in charter that had run aground then when the next clients took it out the keel dropped off,the boat turtled with a loss of life.