I am still having a problem with waste backwashing into my Jabco toilet. I posted the problem several months ago and since then have replaced the whole toilet. It resolved the problem for a while but on it's back. I have flushed the system from the toilet to the tank, I have cleaned the vents, I have emptied the tank and still have the problem. I did not have this problem with the old toilet until I had the discharge hose replaced last year. I replaced the old black hose with a new white hose that is not suppose to smell. I did notice that there is a joint it the hose very close to the lowest level of the run from the toilet to the holding tank. There was no joint in the old hose. I'm beginning to suspect that waste gets trapped in the area where the joint is over time and that is the reason it works for a while and then starts backwashing. I can't think of any other answer. Any ideas?
I'm totally frustrated
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Hose
The white hose will smell too. There are many posting on this forum on this. I took a different approach: I replaced the hose with black ABS pipe (Home Depot stuff). No joints or elbow, just bend it smooth with a heat gun. Fill the pipe with sand inside to keep the shape during bending. Use two short pieces of rubber hose one on each end to provide flexibility. The ABS pipe routed up as soon as it leave the head. It then slope down slightly towards the tank. The theory is that standing liquid in the pipe will smell due to lack of oxygen. The liquid will drain into the tank by gravity due to the slope. I also use a bigger vent hose to promote air flow. The vent is not just for vacumm relieve during pump out. It lets air in to help the bug eat the stuff. I use the same ABS method to replace the pumpout hose as well. That is the worst offender as part of the hose sits in the liquid all the time.
The white hose will smell too. There are many posting on this forum on this. I took a different approach: I replaced the hose with black ABS pipe (Home Depot stuff). No joints or elbow, just bend it smooth with a heat gun. Fill the pipe with sand inside to keep the shape during bending. Use two short pieces of rubber hose one on each end to provide flexibility. The ABS pipe routed up as soon as it leave the head. It then slope down slightly towards the tank. The theory is that standing liquid in the pipe will smell due to lack of oxygen. The liquid will drain into the tank by gravity due to the slope. I also use a bigger vent hose to promote air flow. The vent is not just for vacumm relieve during pump out. It lets air in to help the bug eat the stuff. I use the same ABS method to replace the pumpout hose as well. That is the worst offender as part of the hose sits in the liquid all the time.
Back Flow
Does the hose from the head outlet to the holding tank inlet have any 'uphill' anywhere in the run? Is the holding tank really empty? Does it have an inspection port? Does it happen all the time, or just when sailing (heeling to port, or starboard)? Is the head outlet higher (above) the holding tank inlet? Are you flushing the head properly?
Does the hose from the head outlet to the holding tank inlet have any 'uphill' anywhere in the run? Is the holding tank really empty? Does it have an inspection port? Does it happen all the time, or just when sailing (heeling to port, or starboard)? Is the head outlet higher (above) the holding tank inlet? Are you flushing the head properly?
hose distance?
If you have a long distance from your tank to your head, you could just be experiencing poor joker valve performance. For a 1.5 inch hose, a quart of fluid is about 3 ft. The head discharge goes into the top of the tank - right? if the tank is not full and you are not healing, the only backflow you can get should be what is left in the hose length. There is no other source - is there?? So, you probably just have another leaking joker valve. Take out the valve and make sure it is not obstructed and can close properly.
If you have a long distance from your tank to your head, you could just be experiencing poor joker valve performance. For a 1.5 inch hose, a quart of fluid is about 3 ft. The head discharge goes into the top of the tank - right? if the tank is not full and you are not healing, the only backflow you can get should be what is left in the hose length. There is no other source - is there?? So, you probably just have another leaking joker valve. Take out the valve and make sure it is not obstructed and can close properly.
Joker valve
Like others have indicated it may be the joker valve. Even though you replaced the toilet, which would have had a new joker valve in it, they can be bad right from the start. I've had varying degrees of quality with the valves. Some seem to last a couple of years, had others that were brand new and worse than the one I took out. In my area, which is a mix if fresh and salt water, I get a build up of what appears to be a calcifcation on the inside of the valves flaps. This build up is what allows the flaps to remain open, if only slightly, allowing waste to re-enter the bowl. I always keep one handy as I know sooner or later it will need to be changed. It's a quick and cheap fix and I'd do that before anything else. Plan on changing it from time to time. Also as far as the kink in the hose near the toilet, I wouldn't think that would do you any harm or you woud have seen problems from the time you installed it. Good luck Mike
Like others have indicated it may be the joker valve. Even though you replaced the toilet, which would have had a new joker valve in it, they can be bad right from the start. I've had varying degrees of quality with the valves. Some seem to last a couple of years, had others that were brand new and worse than the one I took out. In my area, which is a mix if fresh and salt water, I get a build up of what appears to be a calcifcation on the inside of the valves flaps. This build up is what allows the flaps to remain open, if only slightly, allowing waste to re-enter the bowl. I always keep one handy as I know sooner or later it will need to be changed. It's a quick and cheap fix and I'd do that before anything else. Plan on changing it from time to time. Also as far as the kink in the hose near the toilet, I wouldn't think that would do you any harm or you woud have seen problems from the time you installed it. Good luck Mike
Change the head
Tom, I have "felt your pain" using the Jabsco head. But, I was stubborn enough to tell myself I would make the stupid thing work correctly, in spite of all the trouble I experienced and problems others on this site have chronicled. I rebuilt the original, still had trouble. I replaced the original with a new Jabsco, still had trouble, especially getting the pump to prime and stay primed. The lure of low cost kept me from doing as Peggy suggested many times before, buying a Raritan head (PHC, in my case). I installed a new one last week, opened the valves, got and kept a prime immediately, and couldn't be happier. I feel confident my daughters will no longer have to hear me use inappropriate language when addressing the head. I have no financial interest in the Raritan product, but I finally lost my patience with what I think has proven, to me, to be an inferiorly designed product. Regardless of your next move, good luck.
Tom, I have "felt your pain" using the Jabsco head. But, I was stubborn enough to tell myself I would make the stupid thing work correctly, in spite of all the trouble I experienced and problems others on this site have chronicled. I rebuilt the original, still had trouble. I replaced the original with a new Jabsco, still had trouble, especially getting the pump to prime and stay primed. The lure of low cost kept me from doing as Peggy suggested many times before, buying a Raritan head (PHC, in my case). I installed a new one last week, opened the valves, got and kept a prime immediately, and couldn't be happier. I feel confident my daughters will no longer have to hear me use inappropriate language when addressing the head. I have no financial interest in the Raritan product, but I finally lost my patience with what I think has proven, to me, to be an inferiorly designed product. Regardless of your next move, good luck.
Head Problem
Had same problem on my O'Day 28. The installation from the factory did not have a vented loop between the head and the tank. Once I installed it no more problems Good Luck
Had same problem on my O'Day 28. The installation from the factory did not have a vented loop between the head and the tank. Once I installed it no more problems Good Luck
When you answer Mick's questions...
I'll be able to help you figure out the solution...'cuz you've gotten a lot of "shoot from the hip" advice, but Mick has asked all the questions--or at least most of 'em--that I'd have asked first.
I'll be able to help you figure out the solution...'cuz you've gotten a lot of "shoot from the hip" advice, but Mick has asked all the questions--or at least most of 'em--that I'd have asked first.
37.5 hose run
We also have a 37.5. The hose run from the head to the tank is more than 10 feet and slightly uphill. We too have had problems with backfilling . We have had to change the joker valve every year and this works for awhile and then it needs changing again. It is also imperative that you pump in the dry bowl position at least 15 times to get as much out of the hose as possible. Because of the long hose, there will probably always be something left in there that a weak joker valve won't stop.
We also have a 37.5. The hose run from the head to the tank is more than 10 feet and slightly uphill. We too have had problems with backfilling . We have had to change the joker valve every year and this works for awhile and then it needs changing again. It is also imperative that you pump in the dry bowl position at least 15 times to get as much out of the hose as possible. Because of the long hose, there will probably always be something left in there that a weak joker valve won't stop.
Ripped it all out!
We've had trouble all year with our Jabsco manual head. It was a pain to coordinate with someone to come to the marina to have it pumped out...plus it STUNK. I decided to rip it all out yesterday - - toilet, tank, hoses, everything...GROSS! I ordered a 5 gallon self-contained Sanipottie from an RV store for about $118.00 - delivered. Now, what to do with those unused thru-hulls.
We've had trouble all year with our Jabsco manual head. It was a pain to coordinate with someone to come to the marina to have it pumped out...plus it STUNK. I decided to rip it all out yesterday - - toilet, tank, hoses, everything...GROSS! I ordered a 5 gallon self-contained Sanipottie from an RV store for about $118.00 - delivered. Now, what to do with those unused thru-hulls.
How about a bidet?
You've got that unused through-hull just waiting for a mission. It's not just a European thing anymore. You find them in a lot of the better hotels and B&B's.
You've got that unused through-hull just waiting for a mission. It's not just a European thing anymore. You find them in a lot of the better hotels and B&B's.
Marcia, Do you wish to get rid of them ?
or Do you think that you may want them in the future? Are they flush to the hull or mushroom headed? If you may want them in the future but want complete security now then just glass over them on the outside. If you don't like that option you can cap them on the inside. If they are in the way of something you want to put in that location then you have no choice but to remove them and repair the holes.
or Do you think that you may want them in the future? Are they flush to the hull or mushroom headed? If you may want them in the future but want complete security now then just glass over them on the outside. If you don't like that option you can cap them on the inside. If they are in the way of something you want to put in that location then you have no choice but to remove them and repair the holes.
No use for the thru-hulls
but I'm not in a hurry to have the boat hauled to glass them over, either. I put a wood plug in each one until I get around to a more permanent fix. As far as a bidet is concerned, I'm not partial to the thought of ice cold Chesapeake Bay water streaming on me!!
but I'm not in a hurry to have the boat hauled to glass them over, either. I put a wood plug in each one until I get around to a more permanent fix. As far as a bidet is concerned, I'm not partial to the thought of ice cold Chesapeake Bay water streaming on me!!
Answers and Thanks
Okay, as Alice said the run is long and uphill a little. The joker valve is new with the pump but that may need to be replaced as all indications are that the joker valve is defective as Guy and Mike have indicated. Given the limited times it has been used I had discounted that as a problem but now I'm not sure. - The tank is empty as we have a pump out service come every month whether needed or not. - There is no inspection port. - It now does it all the time, even when sitting at the dock. I pump it out and within an hour there is back wash back in the toilet. - Yes, I am flushing it properly. - There is a loop vent from the toilet that runs up behind the sink but it is not part of the drain hose. If you are not familar with this boat and the setup it can be a little hard to describe how it is set up. The fact is it was working properly after installing the new toilet and continued to work properly until about 2 months after it was installed. I will replace the joker valve and report back. I did consider replacing it with a Raritan but wasn't sure it would fit properly. Anyone made this replacement in this boat before?
Okay, as Alice said the run is long and uphill a little. The joker valve is new with the pump but that may need to be replaced as all indications are that the joker valve is defective as Guy and Mike have indicated. Given the limited times it has been used I had discounted that as a problem but now I'm not sure. - The tank is empty as we have a pump out service come every month whether needed or not. - There is no inspection port. - It now does it all the time, even when sitting at the dock. I pump it out and within an hour there is back wash back in the toilet. - Yes, I am flushing it properly. - There is a loop vent from the toilet that runs up behind the sink but it is not part of the drain hose. If you are not familar with this boat and the setup it can be a little hard to describe how it is set up. The fact is it was working properly after installing the new toilet and continued to work properly until about 2 months after it was installed. I will replace the joker valve and report back. I did consider replacing it with a Raritan but wasn't sure it would fit properly. Anyone made this replacement in this boat before?
Texas Is it posible to build in a straight vertical line to a point high enough
finish the job? This pipe would be shorter than the existing line with an ell at the upper end. You don't say what the vertical rise is but in any boat it can't be very much. 1/8 inch per foot is adequate for drains on land I should think at least a 1/4 inch per foot on a boat to allow for being a little out of trim. In you 10 foot run this would only amount to about 2 1/2 inches.
finish the job? This pipe would be shorter than the existing line with an ell at the upper end. You don't say what the vertical rise is but in any boat it can't be very much. 1/8 inch per foot is adequate for drains on land I should think at least a 1/4 inch per foot on a boat to allow for being a little out of trim. In you 10 foot run this would only amount to about 2 1/2 inches.
I'd put a loop in the discharge line...
Not necessarily a vented loop, just a loop, immediately after the toilet that's just high enough to be downhill from the top of it to the tank. That will reduce the length of uphill piping to only 2-3 feet...short enough that pumping in the dry mode should push at least 90% of the bowl contents/rinse water over the top of it, leaving only a small amount in the line between the toilet and the top of the loop to run back into the toilet. As long as you have a long discharge line that runs uphill, replacing the toilet won't solve the problem. Replacing the joker valve isn't the solution either...it's just a temporary band aid. Joker valves aren't supposed to be a permanent "dam" or even a temporary one. They aren't intended to block slow seepage. A brand new one may totally prevent backflow for a short time, but only till enough flushes have gone through it to stretch the rubber slit and "lips" just the tiniest amount. The more flushes that go through it, the more stretched open the rubber becomes...till eventually the slit isn't a slit any more, it's a hole. Joker valves should be be replaced at least every two years...you'd have to replace it about once a month for it be an effective dam in the system. So the REAL cure is: eliminate the need for the dam by correcting the plumbing.
Not necessarily a vented loop, just a loop, immediately after the toilet that's just high enough to be downhill from the top of it to the tank. That will reduce the length of uphill piping to only 2-3 feet...short enough that pumping in the dry mode should push at least 90% of the bowl contents/rinse water over the top of it, leaving only a small amount in the line between the toilet and the top of the loop to run back into the toilet. As long as you have a long discharge line that runs uphill, replacing the toilet won't solve the problem. Replacing the joker valve isn't the solution either...it's just a temporary band aid. Joker valves aren't supposed to be a permanent "dam" or even a temporary one. They aren't intended to block slow seepage. A brand new one may totally prevent backflow for a short time, but only till enough flushes have gone through it to stretch the rubber slit and "lips" just the tiniest amount. The more flushes that go through it, the more stretched open the rubber becomes...till eventually the slit isn't a slit any more, it's a hole. Joker valves should be be replaced at least every two years...you'd have to replace it about once a month for it be an effective dam in the system. So the REAL cure is: eliminate the need for the dam by correcting the plumbing.
TexasTom
Are you trying to have a completely dry bowl? On my boat the head outlet line goes up right away, and then its down hill to the tank. This allows some water to stay in the bowl to act as a seal. This requires you to flush enough to only have clean water left in the bowl. I hope this is explained clearly enough. This is what Peggie is suggesting.
Are you trying to have a completely dry bowl? On my boat the head outlet line goes up right away, and then its down hill to the tank. This allows some water to stay in the bowl to act as a seal. This requires you to flush enough to only have clean water left in the bowl. I hope this is explained clearly enough. This is what Peggie is suggesting.
What is the purpose of the joker valve?
Peggy, the only problem I've had with two different Jabsco heads (differnt boats) is the joker valve opening enough to allow the discharged water and allowing waste water to backflow into the bowl. I replace the joker valve and the problem goes away. So if the joker valve is not supposed to be a dam, permanent or otherwise, what is it's purpose? Mike
Peggy, the only problem I've had with two different Jabsco heads (differnt boats) is the joker valve opening enough to allow the discharged water and allowing waste water to backflow into the bowl. I replace the joker valve and the problem goes away. So if the joker valve is not supposed to be a dam, permanent or otherwise, what is it's purpose? Mike
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