You know about sail area/displacement ratios, displacement/length ratios, beam/length ratios, ballast/total displacement ratios, etc., etc., etc. How about if we coin a new one? This one is the annual cost to displacement ratio. To calculate it, add up (or estimate) your total annual costs including moorage, maintenance, insurance, fuel, boat loan costs, depreciation, new boat toys, et al, and divide it by your boat's displacement in hundreds of pounds (total displacement times .01). (annual costs) divided by (displacement x .01) So how do you make out? Is your boat and boating style spendy or cost effective? Compare your numbers with the rest and share your thoughts on boating economics... and the validity of the ratio. Quiz by Gary Wyngarden
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Never thought of it this way.....
But the figure that I always note is the dollars per day of use. For me that works out to about $100/day.
But the figure that I always note is the dollars per day of use. For me that works out to about $100/day.
- Jan 22, 2008
- 519
Interesting concept
Given your formula my annual cost/disp ratio is 10.4 It has been sitting at around that number for the past few years. I am in my third season with this boat, and think that the expensive seasons are over, although I do have some add ons for next year which will likely put my $/disp at 3.5 somewhat lower than the past three years of upgrades and retrofits. I own a Daysailer II.
Given your formula my annual cost/disp ratio is 10.4 It has been sitting at around that number for the past few years. I am in my third season with this boat, and think that the expensive seasons are over, although I do have some add ons for next year which will likely put my $/disp at 3.5 somewhat lower than the past three years of upgrades and retrofits. I own a Daysailer II.
- Jan 22, 2008
- 519
ouch
Using Rick's formula I get $120 dollars per day of use. I gotta get out more! What incentive.
Using Rick's formula I get $120 dollars per day of use. I gotta get out more! What incentive.
$125 to $75 depending on year
2003 $124.56 for Hunter 420 with mortgage 2000 $75.00 for Hunter 37 without mortgage Every year fluctuates due to equipment additions and repairs and maintenance. Our biggest expense is the slip rental fee at $10.00 per foot per month plus tax and electricity. By the day... Wow. Around $250 per day of use. This year will be worse with over $10,000 in hurricane damage to fix and high deductibles. Bill
2003 $124.56 for Hunter 420 with mortgage 2000 $75.00 for Hunter 37 without mortgage Every year fluctuates due to equipment additions and repairs and maintenance. Our biggest expense is the slip rental fee at $10.00 per foot per month plus tax and electricity. By the day... Wow. Around $250 per day of use. This year will be worse with over $10,000 in hurricane damage to fix and high deductibles. Bill
Small is better.
I spent quite a bit on the boat this year.(3rd season.) and came up with $99/100#. I own the boat and assume $500/yr depreciation. I bought a new main. (from this web site.-all tell tails flying !) installed a $400 stero system and new safety lines. Included is winter haul out and inside storage on the Great Lakes; as well as, dockage on perhaps the finest Marina on the Great Lakes. (Elk Rapids, MI) I do my own maintenance and painting. Next year -$58/100#
I spent quite a bit on the boat this year.(3rd season.) and came up with $99/100#. I own the boat and assume $500/yr depreciation. I bought a new main. (from this web site.-all tell tails flying !) installed a $400 stero system and new safety lines. Included is winter haul out and inside storage on the Great Lakes; as well as, dockage on perhaps the finest Marina on the Great Lakes. (Elk Rapids, MI) I do my own maintenance and painting. Next year -$58/100#
109.00
Sold my previous boat well, bought the "new" one well. Minimal upgrades to do as the boat is well-appointed. I do 99% of the work myself to keep costs down. Other costs are pretty much fixed at around $2000/yr.
Sold my previous boat well, bought the "new" one well. Minimal upgrades to do as the boat is well-appointed. I do 99% of the work myself to keep costs down. Other costs are pretty much fixed at around $2000/yr.
Hey...not bad...$20.00!
Mine comes out to $20.00 so I don't feel so bad. BOAT: Nonsuch 30 Classic DISP: 11,500 COSTS: $2,300.00 (mooring, maintenance, club dues and launch service, haulout/launch,mast step/unstep/storage, boat storage) Now, if I go by cost of ownership per day, it would be $6.30 for a full year or $10.74 per day of sailing season based upon the annual dollar amount as opposed to displacement. Not THAT'S what I call value for money! Cheers, Bob
Mine comes out to $20.00 so I don't feel so bad. BOAT: Nonsuch 30 Classic DISP: 11,500 COSTS: $2,300.00 (mooring, maintenance, club dues and launch service, haulout/launch,mast step/unstep/storage, boat storage) Now, if I go by cost of ownership per day, it would be $6.30 for a full year or $10.74 per day of sailing season based upon the annual dollar amount as opposed to displacement. Not THAT'S what I call value for money! Cheers, Bob
Ouch!
This was an expensive year. With new suit of sails, it comes to $165. Without the toys, $133. I guess it's expensive to own a boat in Southern California. Per day, it comes to about $110. John Richard' s/v Jack's Place
This was an expensive year. With new suit of sails, it comes to $165. Without the toys, $133. I guess it's expensive to own a boat in Southern California. Per day, it comes to about $110. John Richard' s/v Jack's Place
Only $69 per 100#
With my Hunter Cutter I spend around $69.00 per 100 pounds. As some other I am still upgrading since I purchased Fat Tuesday two plus years ago. This year I added extra batteries (4), New charging system, autopilot, electric windlass, anchor and 300 feet of chain. I do most of the work myself so that part of the cost is not included. We are just having the stern pulpit removed and adding seats. That should about be the end of high dollar upgrades.
With my Hunter Cutter I spend around $69.00 per 100 pounds. As some other I am still upgrading since I purchased Fat Tuesday two plus years ago. This year I added extra batteries (4), New charging system, autopilot, electric windlass, anchor and 300 feet of chain. I do most of the work myself so that part of the cost is not included. We are just having the stern pulpit removed and adding seats. That should about be the end of high dollar upgrades.
Are you really keeping your boat in condition?
A very interesting question. And now I do understand why the used boats are in the condition they are. Go out yourself and take a look at what is on the market. Sailors on an average DO NOT keep their boat in the best of condition. Buy the regular screws and hardware instead of stainless. It's cheaper. Some small cracks. Just ignore them. I have put a lot of money into my boat because I want to feel good about it. It probably won't sail any better. But I'll feel happier. Good luck to you all out there. And if you find a task that you can't do. Ask a professional. Or take the time to do it correctly. One of the boats I just bought has a non slip surface that was applied. Very poorly done. I hope to repair so that when I ad it to my collection of boats it will look good.
A very interesting question. And now I do understand why the used boats are in the condition they are. Go out yourself and take a look at what is on the market. Sailors on an average DO NOT keep their boat in the best of condition. Buy the regular screws and hardware instead of stainless. It's cheaper. Some small cracks. Just ignore them. I have put a lot of money into my boat because I want to feel good about it. It probably won't sail any better. But I'll feel happier. Good luck to you all out there. And if you find a task that you can't do. Ask a professional. Or take the time to do it correctly. One of the boats I just bought has a non slip surface that was applied. Very poorly done. I hope to repair so that when I ad it to my collection of boats it will look good.
Don't forget opportunity costs
Many of you are overlooking the "opportunity costs" of owning a boat. In the cost of ownership is the value of your money tied up in the boat. That is, if you sold your boat and invested the money you'd be generating income. Instead, you've invested in a depreciating asset (your boat) and forgone the interest income, thereby generating a boating "expense". So you should include that "lost income" and any depreciation right along with maintenance, storage, etc. costs to get your true cost of ownership. After you gag on that number, you'll probably want to quit your job and sail all the time to justify the cost!
Many of you are overlooking the "opportunity costs" of owning a boat. In the cost of ownership is the value of your money tied up in the boat. That is, if you sold your boat and invested the money you'd be generating income. Instead, you've invested in a depreciating asset (your boat) and forgone the interest income, thereby generating a boating "expense". So you should include that "lost income" and any depreciation right along with maintenance, storage, etc. costs to get your true cost of ownership. After you gag on that number, you'll probably want to quit your job and sail all the time to justify the cost!
Need Heavier Boat
The concept just blew my whole impression of what it was costing me to sail. This year I spent money on slip fee and gasoline only and my C/D ratio is 49.73: Does Not Sound Good If we went with Cost Per Day of use I'm down to 34.82 so far for the year. Cost per Hour of use is better at 5.78. My favorite, however, is Operating Cost Per Hour at which my $9 of gasoline for the outboard I rarely use divided by roughly 324 hours of use so far this year, makes a much more pleasant factor of $0.03 per hour. Now THAT I can handle! Plus, I'm sure I've got another 50-60 hours on her for the season. That's the nice thing about the small daysailers: little to no maintenance, parts are cheaper, fuel consumption is usually 3-5 gallons a year, and you can still fit a coller big enough to handle a case of beer and two bags of ice on them!
The concept just blew my whole impression of what it was costing me to sail. This year I spent money on slip fee and gasoline only and my C/D ratio is 49.73: Does Not Sound Good If we went with Cost Per Day of use I'm down to 34.82 so far for the year. Cost per Hour of use is better at 5.78. My favorite, however, is Operating Cost Per Hour at which my $9 of gasoline for the outboard I rarely use divided by roughly 324 hours of use so far this year, makes a much more pleasant factor of $0.03 per hour. Now THAT I can handle! Plus, I'm sure I've got another 50-60 hours on her for the season. That's the nice thing about the small daysailers: little to no maintenance, parts are cheaper, fuel consumption is usually 3-5 gallons a year, and you can still fit a coller big enough to handle a case of beer and two bags of ice on them!
Hunter 260 - $63 per 100
For my Hunter 260 the cost is calculated as follows: Annual cost... Boat price per year for 30 years: $1100 Mooring purch. & maint. over 15 years: $76 Prof. Bottom paint (every two years): $350 Maintenance and toys: $500 Yacht Club costs: $650 Insurance: $200 Registration & Mooring fees: $200 Fuel (3 gal): $6 Total: $3082 Boat weight: 5000 lbs Ratio: $61.54 per 100 lbs ------ Days used: 20 $$ Per day = $154 ------- Days worked on boat: 4 Percent boat days working on boat: 17% ------ Other metrics: Hull speed: 6.5 No. People: 8 Sail Area: 320 sqft. (from factory) Draft: 2ft to 6 ft (center board)
For my Hunter 260 the cost is calculated as follows: Annual cost... Boat price per year for 30 years: $1100 Mooring purch. & maint. over 15 years: $76 Prof. Bottom paint (every two years): $350 Maintenance and toys: $500 Yacht Club costs: $650 Insurance: $200 Registration & Mooring fees: $200 Fuel (3 gal): $6 Total: $3082 Boat weight: 5000 lbs Ratio: $61.54 per 100 lbs ------ Days used: 20 $$ Per day = $154 ------- Days worked on boat: 4 Percent boat days working on boat: 17% ------ Other metrics: Hull speed: 6.5 No. People: 8 Sail Area: 320 sqft. (from factory) Draft: 2ft to 6 ft (center board)
MacGregor 26 X. $68 per day or $55 per 100#
Cost per day: $68 for a MacGregor 26X for 25 days. Cost per 100# is $55 includes amortization on 30Y, insurance, maintenance, mooring,registration,..
Cost per day: $68 for a MacGregor 26X for 25 days. Cost per 100# is $55 includes amortization on 30Y, insurance, maintenance, mooring,registration,..
Mis-understood question . .
Mine worked out to be close to $120 / 100 #. on my Hunter 27 (full keel) 8000 pounds. (No, don't tell me it's only 7000 then the costs really go up!). I typically use cost per day of use. (However, this year my season got cut short with my sailing partner had to have surgery which added some major restrictions. ) But in my budgeting I have three major components: Normal maintenance (gas, oil, slip); Capital Costs (sails, stove, anchor) and Personal costs (out-of-budget food items, boating shoes, rain gear). In my original summary it looked like $35 / 100# By and large, I expect the overall worth to amortize over many years, so the total cost per use should go down in 1999 dollars. Bob
Mine worked out to be close to $120 / 100 #. on my Hunter 27 (full keel) 8000 pounds. (No, don't tell me it's only 7000 then the costs really go up!). I typically use cost per day of use. (However, this year my season got cut short with my sailing partner had to have surgery which added some major restrictions. ) But in my budgeting I have three major components: Normal maintenance (gas, oil, slip); Capital Costs (sails, stove, anchor) and Personal costs (out-of-budget food items, boating shoes, rain gear). In my original summary it looked like $35 / 100# By and large, I expect the overall worth to amortize over many years, so the total cost per use should go down in 1999 dollars. Bob
Standing Rule
My spouse and I have a standing rule. We don't discuss the costs of owning our sailboat unless we are two miles or more offshore. When you think about the costs of a sailboat without including the pure joy of being out on the water, sailing close to hull speed with the wave under one foot, then it is just too easy to make an economics-only answer. If I had to do a dry-land calculation, I'd probably need to include the therapy needed to recover from not being able to sail. Sure, owning a sailboat is a selfish activity compared to feeding the hungry, creating world peace, etc., but it can't be as bad as owning a powerboat, right?
My spouse and I have a standing rule. We don't discuss the costs of owning our sailboat unless we are two miles or more offshore. When you think about the costs of a sailboat without including the pure joy of being out on the water, sailing close to hull speed with the wave under one foot, then it is just too easy to make an economics-only answer. If I had to do a dry-land calculation, I'd probably need to include the therapy needed to recover from not being able to sail. Sure, owning a sailboat is a selfish activity compared to feeding the hungry, creating world peace, etc., but it can't be as bad as owning a powerboat, right?
displacement !! crap .
What the heck does displacment ratio to cost have to do with boat ownership? How much do you use your boat? How do you measure pride of ownership? Can you justify cost of ownership against your income? displacement has nothing to do with the question of whether or not you can afford it or whether you are paying to much. When I saw that Question come up I couldn't believe it was being asked. How many times do you smile going down the dock to get to your boat. What is the cost of that. most people would be better off cost wise to charter 1 or 2 times a year. But pride of ownership has a very large play in their decision. I feel there are a lot of things that can be measured in boat ownership. But I don't feel displacement to cost even factors in. Most of your questions are interesting and thought provoking but SORRY I think you blew it on this one.
What the heck does displacment ratio to cost have to do with boat ownership? How much do you use your boat? How do you measure pride of ownership? Can you justify cost of ownership against your income? displacement has nothing to do with the question of whether or not you can afford it or whether you are paying to much. When I saw that Question come up I couldn't believe it was being asked. How many times do you smile going down the dock to get to your boat. What is the cost of that. most people would be better off cost wise to charter 1 or 2 times a year. But pride of ownership has a very large play in their decision. I feel there are a lot of things that can be measured in boat ownership. But I don't feel displacement to cost even factors in. Most of your questions are interesting and thought provoking but SORRY I think you blew it on this one.
Harold's got it right...
Someone at work asked me if I figured out my cost per hour. Now why would I want to do that - so I could drive myself to depression and sell the boat? I love sailing it, traveling places on it, entertaining friends and family on it, and sitting at the dock enjoying bottle of wine in the cockpit. Even with a 6 month season, it's worth it. As long as I can still pay the (house) mortgage and feed and clothe the family, I'm not going to micro-analyze the cost.
Someone at work asked me if I figured out my cost per hour. Now why would I want to do that - so I could drive myself to depression and sell the boat? I love sailing it, traveling places on it, entertaining friends and family on it, and sitting at the dock enjoying bottle of wine in the cockpit. Even with a 6 month season, it's worth it. As long as I can still pay the (house) mortgage and feed and clothe the family, I'm not going to micro-analyze the cost.
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