I have a 1985 H31. The cockpit floor is getting spongier every year. I know I will eventually need to do something in the way of repair. I have already read what is in the archives on this topic, and the conventional method of repair seems difficult and costly. I was wondering though. Why couldant I just build a new floor atop the old one? Suppose I drilled horizontal holes where the cockpit walls meet the floor such that I could insert 1/4" fiberglass or stainless rod so the rods would span the width of the floor. Do this maybe every 6 inches. Then lay in some epoxy resin and some fabric and cover with more resin. Finally, lay on a coat of gelcoat, imprint a non skid surface in the gelcoat, and cut in the scupper drans and wheel pedestal as needed. It seems I could build a new floor, possibly even stronger than original, right over the old one. It would be much less labor intensive and relatively cheap compared to the traditional repair method. My guess is it would raise the floor level only 3/4" inches at most. Has anyone ever tried something like this? Why wouldant it work?
ideas on cockpit floor replacement
- Thread starter pimerese
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cockpit grate
We are making a cockpit grate out of trex-like lumber from HD. Should be able to do the whole thing for less than 50 bucks total. Don't know if this will solve the spongy problem you have, but it would spread the load well. Pray for Wind, Lugeman
We are making a cockpit grate out of trex-like lumber from HD. Should be able to do the whole thing for less than 50 bucks total. Don't know if this will solve the spongy problem you have, but it would spread the load well. Pray for Wind, Lugeman
Thinking Outside the Box
Dear Pimerese: I've done the spongy sole fix project on my 1980 Hunter 36 and have posted my experience on a few occasions. Looks like you are thinking outside the box for alternative ways. The core material sandwiched between the top and bottom FRP cockpit floor layers on my boat (which won't necessarily be the same as your 5-year later vintage) was a checkerboard of individual plywood squares (about 4" sides) laid in. This plywood was wet (water dripped out when I removed the pedestal and guard rail bolts from their holes). But when I did peel off the top skin, I found that the plywood was not at all rotted. The wood grain itself was still like new solid. (It had a green color so maybe it had been pressure treated?) And it was still very firmly glued to the fiberglass skin. Instead, the glue bonds between the plywood layers themselves had delaminated and were oozing with water. If your core is the same plywood and has failed in the same way as mine, then perhaps, as you are thinking, there might be a way around completely removing the top skin. I do think that if the core is compromised, adding another layer of flooring might improve things a bit, but the floor will still flex and if the core continues to degrade, it will need to be fixed right at some point. I'm not an expert, but I'm a reasonably creative DIY'er. The following might be something I might have tried on my project in hindsight. I'm thinking of the layout/construction of the cockpit sole on my boat, which may not be applicable to yours. Also please get other opinions. I don't think the below would be an optimal solution, but as you seem to looking to avoid removing the whole sole skin and rebuilding, here's my idea: - When you remove the pedestal, there will be a large hole and you should be able to readily see the type of core material and its condition. If it is plywood and the wood looks to be only separated continue to read below. If the core is rotted, my inclination is that removing the skin and replacing the whole core and then rebuilding is the way to go. - In a transverse direction (across the cockpit floor rather than in the fore/aft direction), cut out say a 1" wide strip of the upper (non-skid section) of the cockpit floor, say about 4-6" aft of where the sandwiched cored section start. Cut all the way through the wood to the lower fiberglass skin, but not into it. Don't go all the way to the beam-to-beam edge of the cored area. Leave say 1-2". Remove the top skin and the wood core from the cut. There will be a 1" wide trench in the floor. Again look at the core to determine its condition. If the wood is good but delaminated... - Then another 6-8" aft of the first strip, cut another transverse trench, and then more trenches until the aft section of the floor is reached. Think out the spacing of the trenches so that they don't intersect with the pedestal and guard rail bolt holes. And the last cut aft isn't right at the edge. - At this stage, there will be a number of transverse trenches in through the non-skid surface of the sole. But the majority of the sole's surface will still have undisturbed non-skid FRP in place. All the uncut non-skid top FRP skin will leave plenty structural strength to the floor. - Let the core dry completely... this can take days or more. Obviously can't be rained on. From underneath, think about drilling some holes into the bottom skin at the very lowest point aft to that any pools of water that remain can drain. - Cover the non-skid surface between the trenches with tape to keep it free of epoxy mess. Starting with the forward-most trench (which presumably will be up slope from the others), fill it with West Systems type epoxy. I think that it is possible to thin the mixture a bit so it will be a somewhat more "runny"; which you would need to check with the manufacturer. From within the trench and the next aft trench, stick in a pry bar here-and-there to work around to flex and open up the delaminated wood, which will help whisk the epoxy into more of the gaps/voids than just plain gravity. Lay in the trench some sort of reinforcing rod or hardwood to give some added transverse strength (and so you won't need as much epoxy). Maybe put some weighted object over the undisturbed non-skin surface to help compress the epoxy into voids and gaps. - Carry on until all the trenches are done. - You might have to go back several times as the epoxy level in each trench is likely to sink as the epoxy works its way into the voids. - After the epoxy sets up, then mix some more epoxy with West Systems' colloidal silica thickener and add a final coat into the trenches so that its level with the non-skid surface. If the thickness of the mixture is correct, it can be dimpled to a rough looking surface. - Remove the protective tape from the undisturbed non-skid surface. Finish the entire cockpit floor with the non-skid paint of your choice. If the trenches were cut nicely and uniformly, even though their new surface texture will be different than the existing non skid, I would think they would have the effect of intentional and pleasing design rather than collateral damage of badly executed repair job. - Undoubtedly there will be variations on this theme depending on your situation, imagination and reaction of other advisors. One variation would be to initially cut only the first two trenches. Go through the drying and epoxy fill steps to verify that the epoxy does in fact whisk into and repair the delaminations. If not then move on to "Plan B" (what ever that might be!) - Don Casey in his book "Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair" does cite a deck delamination repair method of drilling lots holes in the top skin in/around a delaminated area, and after drying out, filling the holes with epoxy. (See the book for details.) But this is for a delamination between the fiberglass skin and the wood with no other damage or rot to the core wood. I think this method would have only minimal effect in the case of delaminated layers of the plywood. Hence my "trench" idea. - Plan on lots of hours no matter which way you go. I spent better part of a week to repair my sole. Your idea of trying to drill long horizontal holes for reinforcing rods and then laying up new fiberglass, and final refinishing would also be time consuming I would expect. And another advantage of leaving the top skin largely undisturbed is that the big hole for the pedestal and all the other bolt holes are still where they were, making reassembly that much easier.
Dear Pimerese: I've done the spongy sole fix project on my 1980 Hunter 36 and have posted my experience on a few occasions. Looks like you are thinking outside the box for alternative ways. The core material sandwiched between the top and bottom FRP cockpit floor layers on my boat (which won't necessarily be the same as your 5-year later vintage) was a checkerboard of individual plywood squares (about 4" sides) laid in. This plywood was wet (water dripped out when I removed the pedestal and guard rail bolts from their holes). But when I did peel off the top skin, I found that the plywood was not at all rotted. The wood grain itself was still like new solid. (It had a green color so maybe it had been pressure treated?) And it was still very firmly glued to the fiberglass skin. Instead, the glue bonds between the plywood layers themselves had delaminated and were oozing with water. If your core is the same plywood and has failed in the same way as mine, then perhaps, as you are thinking, there might be a way around completely removing the top skin. I do think that if the core is compromised, adding another layer of flooring might improve things a bit, but the floor will still flex and if the core continues to degrade, it will need to be fixed right at some point. I'm not an expert, but I'm a reasonably creative DIY'er. The following might be something I might have tried on my project in hindsight. I'm thinking of the layout/construction of the cockpit sole on my boat, which may not be applicable to yours. Also please get other opinions. I don't think the below would be an optimal solution, but as you seem to looking to avoid removing the whole sole skin and rebuilding, here's my idea: - When you remove the pedestal, there will be a large hole and you should be able to readily see the type of core material and its condition. If it is plywood and the wood looks to be only separated continue to read below. If the core is rotted, my inclination is that removing the skin and replacing the whole core and then rebuilding is the way to go. - In a transverse direction (across the cockpit floor rather than in the fore/aft direction), cut out say a 1" wide strip of the upper (non-skid section) of the cockpit floor, say about 4-6" aft of where the sandwiched cored section start. Cut all the way through the wood to the lower fiberglass skin, but not into it. Don't go all the way to the beam-to-beam edge of the cored area. Leave say 1-2". Remove the top skin and the wood core from the cut. There will be a 1" wide trench in the floor. Again look at the core to determine its condition. If the wood is good but delaminated... - Then another 6-8" aft of the first strip, cut another transverse trench, and then more trenches until the aft section of the floor is reached. Think out the spacing of the trenches so that they don't intersect with the pedestal and guard rail bolt holes. And the last cut aft isn't right at the edge. - At this stage, there will be a number of transverse trenches in through the non-skid surface of the sole. But the majority of the sole's surface will still have undisturbed non-skid FRP in place. All the uncut non-skid top FRP skin will leave plenty structural strength to the floor. - Let the core dry completely... this can take days or more. Obviously can't be rained on. From underneath, think about drilling some holes into the bottom skin at the very lowest point aft to that any pools of water that remain can drain. - Cover the non-skid surface between the trenches with tape to keep it free of epoxy mess. Starting with the forward-most trench (which presumably will be up slope from the others), fill it with West Systems type epoxy. I think that it is possible to thin the mixture a bit so it will be a somewhat more "runny"; which you would need to check with the manufacturer. From within the trench and the next aft trench, stick in a pry bar here-and-there to work around to flex and open up the delaminated wood, which will help whisk the epoxy into more of the gaps/voids than just plain gravity. Lay in the trench some sort of reinforcing rod or hardwood to give some added transverse strength (and so you won't need as much epoxy). Maybe put some weighted object over the undisturbed non-skin surface to help compress the epoxy into voids and gaps. - Carry on until all the trenches are done. - You might have to go back several times as the epoxy level in each trench is likely to sink as the epoxy works its way into the voids. - After the epoxy sets up, then mix some more epoxy with West Systems' colloidal silica thickener and add a final coat into the trenches so that its level with the non-skid surface. If the thickness of the mixture is correct, it can be dimpled to a rough looking surface. - Remove the protective tape from the undisturbed non-skid surface. Finish the entire cockpit floor with the non-skid paint of your choice. If the trenches were cut nicely and uniformly, even though their new surface texture will be different than the existing non skid, I would think they would have the effect of intentional and pleasing design rather than collateral damage of badly executed repair job. - Undoubtedly there will be variations on this theme depending on your situation, imagination and reaction of other advisors. One variation would be to initially cut only the first two trenches. Go through the drying and epoxy fill steps to verify that the epoxy does in fact whisk into and repair the delaminations. If not then move on to "Plan B" (what ever that might be!) - Don Casey in his book "Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair" does cite a deck delamination repair method of drilling lots holes in the top skin in/around a delaminated area, and after drying out, filling the holes with epoxy. (See the book for details.) But this is for a delamination between the fiberglass skin and the wood with no other damage or rot to the core wood. I think this method would have only minimal effect in the case of delaminated layers of the plywood. Hence my "trench" idea. - Plan on lots of hours no matter which way you go. I spent better part of a week to repair my sole. Your idea of trying to drill long horizontal holes for reinforcing rods and then laying up new fiberglass, and final refinishing would also be time consuming I would expect. And another advantage of leaving the top skin largely undisturbed is that the big hole for the pedestal and all the other bolt holes are still where they were, making reassembly that much easier.
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