Hello, I’ve spent the past year learning to sail in Honolulu, where I live, and am now researching my first sailboat purchase. I know very little about advantages and disadvantages of make/model/year boats within my criteria listed below. Any advice would be much appreciated, including comments on re-considering any of my criteria: 1) a used boat not over 10K listing price. $7500 would be my ideal affordability after negotiations. 2) 26 to 30 feet; Bigger would be nice, but, I'd like to give quality the preference over size, given my low budget. I do not want a fixer upper--the boat must be ready to sail well and safely for that price without any major labor or cost. 3) standard and average: a fiberglass sloop with typical keel and rudder shape--nothing exotic or out of the ordinary in design or manufacturer. A name the average boat owner recognizes. I want to buy with re-sale in mind. 4) An inboard would be better in heavy swells when needed but I’ll go with an outboard so more purchase money can be put toward the quality of the boat itself. 5) No functional kitchen or head required. Tiller steering is fine. 6) A "week-off-of-work" inter-island cruiser: My use of the boat will be mostly in nearshore weekend days around Oahu southshore; however, this is the key-- once every 6 weeks I want to go to either Kaunakakai, Molokai; Manele, Lanai; or Lahaina, Maui (up to 50 miles one-way crossing open channels) for a week of "camping" on boat while it is anchored. I don't intend to sail it beyond this radius. I’ll watch my weather and pick my crew and days well, but I will eventually encounter large seas and heavy winds in this boat—and I must buy for that unlucky occasion. I’m a young oceansports guy, and I've crossed these channels in powerboats. I know how it can change quickly in these channels. It’s basically open ocean—but with the safety net of land nearby. I need a boat that will perform well in big swells, and can take a beating. If I have to give up speed for heavy weather performance, that is OK. I've read mixed reviews of the Catalina 27—perhaps too light duty for my needs. Within this size range, does Ericson, Columbia, Ranger, Rawson, etc. offer an advantage over another for my purposes? What year models should I seek or avoid? If all were in the same great condition, and all roughly 30 years old, which make/model would you recommend for me? Any other things I might want to look for in a boat? Thanks, JW
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Criteria 5 and 6
You really want a boat with a head and a galley for a couple of reasons. First, when you "camp" on the boat, it is really nice to have a place to cook and clean up. A significant other may be more comfortable(read more willing to accompany you) with these items. Another factor is that any boat without these items will be designed more as a day sailer and will lack in other ares of comfort below. Buying a 26 footer in great condition is probably your best option based on price requirements. Anything bigger will get you into a fixer upper or lack of quality at that price. The first boat that comes to mind before reading your brands is a Pearson 26. Great build, recognized name, great resale and very strongly build. Can have either IB or OB. Overbuilt rig and great in heavy seas. This is also a fast boat that will compete well in beer can racing. Unfortunately this is an east coast boat so it may be hard to find in your area. Out of the brands you mention, I only know any details about the Ericson 25 or 26 which is similar to the Pearson only a little better built and a little more roomy below but also probably out of your price range.
You really want a boat with a head and a galley for a couple of reasons. First, when you "camp" on the boat, it is really nice to have a place to cook and clean up. A significant other may be more comfortable(read more willing to accompany you) with these items. Another factor is that any boat without these items will be designed more as a day sailer and will lack in other ares of comfort below. Buying a 26 footer in great condition is probably your best option based on price requirements. Anything bigger will get you into a fixer upper or lack of quality at that price. The first boat that comes to mind before reading your brands is a Pearson 26. Great build, recognized name, great resale and very strongly build. Can have either IB or OB. Overbuilt rig and great in heavy seas. This is also a fast boat that will compete well in beer can racing. Unfortunately this is an east coast boat so it may be hard to find in your area. Out of the brands you mention, I only know any details about the Ericson 25 or 26 which is similar to the Pearson only a little better built and a little more roomy below but also probably out of your price range.
given your criterion, shoot for at least a 28
i would say that you definitely need a head and galley. a boat in this size with a tiller will be somewhat cheaper. i would also shoot for an inboard diesel. there are lots of good boats out there in this price range and size. the one thing i don't have a clue about is how many boats in this size and price range are available in hawaii. s/v Que Pasa?
i would say that you definitely need a head and galley. a boat in this size with a tiller will be somewhat cheaper. i would also shoot for an inboard diesel. there are lots of good boats out there in this price range and size. the one thing i don't have a clue about is how many boats in this size and price range are available in hawaii. s/v Que Pasa?
I did a Yachtworld.com search for you..
Yachtworld.com and do an advanced search you will find there are currently only three "broker listed" vessels that actually meet your criteria. I have posted the direct link to this search bellow and here's the criteria I loaded into it: Used, Sail, 24-30 feet, price $7500.00 to 10,000, location Hawaii. My take is usually 70-75% condition when dealing with older boats and 25-30% construction! Unfortunately in that price range you may find the boats to all be constructed similarly. No one has mentioned it yet but you should ALWAYS get a full survey prior to buying a boat even ones listed on Cragslist or other sell it your self venues. You can easily spend more on repairs than you paid for the boat at $7500.00 so take condition of ALL systems seriously.
Yachtworld.com and do an advanced search you will find there are currently only three "broker listed" vessels that actually meet your criteria. I have posted the direct link to this search bellow and here's the criteria I loaded into it: Used, Sail, 24-30 feet, price $7500.00 to 10,000, location Hawaii. My take is usually 70-75% condition when dealing with older boats and 25-30% construction! Unfortunately in that price range you may find the boats to all be constructed similarly. No one has mentioned it yet but you should ALWAYS get a full survey prior to buying a boat even ones listed on Cragslist or other sell it your self venues. You can easily spend more on repairs than you paid for the boat at $7500.00 so take condition of ALL systems seriously.
Morgan
Morgan 28 late 60's early 70's or Morgan 27 mid 70's should suit. Seaworthy, quick and liveable, I believe they all had IB's. C&C from that vintage. Ericksons I believe had a full keel which would help on your channel crossings. What is available in Hawaii could be a major factor. If you find something for 10 in the mainland and spend 3 getting it to the island, maybe you can get something nicer for 13 on island. I am not sure what 27' boat would not have some sort of head and galley that isn't a racer or a daysailer.
Morgan 28 late 60's early 70's or Morgan 27 mid 70's should suit. Seaworthy, quick and liveable, I believe they all had IB's. C&C from that vintage. Ericksons I believe had a full keel which would help on your channel crossings. What is available in Hawaii could be a major factor. If you find something for 10 in the mainland and spend 3 getting it to the island, maybe you can get something nicer for 13 on island. I am not sure what 27' boat would not have some sort of head and galley that isn't a racer or a daysailer.
Your price range is low for the length but
you can get a fix me upper. I like Catalina, Hunter, Pearson etc etc. You need to look around for a fire sale in your price limit. 26 and 27 is a little small for a weekender. I really like the Hunter 28 or 28.5 for a weekended. You might be able to get a H 28.5 under 10k if you shop around. The Catalina 30 is a GREAT boat too. Search on Yacthworld for these boats. It is a buyers market. Boating is getting expensive and the price of used boats is coming down!
you can get a fix me upper. I like Catalina, Hunter, Pearson etc etc. You need to look around for a fire sale in your price limit. 26 and 27 is a little small for a weekender. I really like the Hunter 28 or 28.5 for a weekended. You might be able to get a H 28.5 under 10k if you shop around. The Catalina 30 is a GREAT boat too. Search on Yacthworld for these boats. It is a buyers market. Boating is getting expensive and the price of used boats is coming down!
I slightly disagree. jim
with the price of marine fuel at about $5/gal and diesel at $5.25 there are lots of powerboaters looking to switch to sail and this is going to affect the price and availability of decent condition sail boats. imho i think its going to become a sellers market for sailboats. S/V Que Pasa?
with the price of marine fuel at about $5/gal and diesel at $5.25 there are lots of powerboaters looking to switch to sail and this is going to affect the price and availability of decent condition sail boats. imho i think its going to become a sellers market for sailboats. S/V Que Pasa?
Yeah..
But good condition sailboats are always hard to find! A quick look at this months Soundings counts 5 pages of sailboat classifieds and 15 for power. I years past the page spread was a lot closer. Here in Maine right now there is a LOT of junk on the market that has been there a while. When a good new boat hits it's gone fairly quickly. That bing said I have noticed a slight general price drop that I confirmed on Soldboats.com through a broker friend. I do thing the sailboat market will rebound but they can't give power away right now in the under 500k price range. My buddy is still selling lots of big Sabre and Eastbay power vessels but nothing inexpensive in power...
But good condition sailboats are always hard to find! A quick look at this months Soundings counts 5 pages of sailboat classifieds and 15 for power. I years past the page spread was a lot closer. Here in Maine right now there is a LOT of junk on the market that has been there a while. When a good new boat hits it's gone fairly quickly. That bing said I have noticed a slight general price drop that I confirmed on Soldboats.com through a broker friend. I do thing the sailboat market will rebound but they can't give power away right now in the under 500k price range. My buddy is still selling lots of big Sabre and Eastbay power vessels but nothing inexpensive in power...
it might affect the market differently than i think.
could be the high price of fuel won't let us have any money left over, even for sailing.
could be the high price of fuel won't let us have any money left over, even for sailing.
i have noticed in my marina
there are lots of empty slips and the powerboats that are in the water arn't going anywhere.
there are lots of empty slips and the powerboats that are in the water arn't going anywhere.
Do not buy a fixer upper
If you do, you will find that your first sailboat will be a rebuilding hobby, not a sailing hobby. When I say 'fixer upper' I am referring to a boat that cannot be sailed AND motored the day you buy it. I am not talking about cosmetics, thats a different story. There will be times when you have more money than time to workl on it and times when you have plenty of time to work on it and no money for the parts. Also, no matter how much time you think you have, you DONT. Tony B
If you do, you will find that your first sailboat will be a rebuilding hobby, not a sailing hobby. When I say 'fixer upper' I am referring to a boat that cannot be sailed AND motored the day you buy it. I am not talking about cosmetics, thats a different story. There will be times when you have more money than time to workl on it and times when you have plenty of time to work on it and no money for the parts. Also, no matter how much time you think you have, you DONT. Tony B
Work-in-Progress
$7,500 is peanuts. For $7,500 and in the size range you're looking at, virtually any boat you buy is going to be some kind of a "work-in-progress". Just like a 30 year-old car, it will require constant fixing so plan on both money and time. If it isn't one thing it's going to be another. Replace blown-out $ail$, replace old rigging, replace running light$ that are crazed or don't work, replace the head, tank$, etc., the list is endless. And then there is bottom paint and hauling, and.....and.... The next comment will be about your budget - what is moorage costing there? At $200/mo that's $2,400/year. That is 1/3 of what you want to pay for the boat!!! At $300/mo it would be $3,600/mo which is almost half of your budget - just on moorage. Then there are property taxes, insurance (which will be required), annual license, etc. At this stage it'd be perhaps a little wiser to hold off on jumping into this dream and get some more hands-on experience, maybe make some more money working in a boat yard on your days off, banking more savings. Better yet, maybe even volunteering to crew on someone else's boat to do these short cruises. There must be some boat owners there that are getting along in years and could use an extra hand or two. Once you've been to these places a few times it'll start to be old hat and the newness will start to wear off. But if you like putzing around on the boat there will always be that work to do. It sounds like you're trying to be really methodical about this but you're also trying hard to make it pencil out. But be realistic and Good Luck in your decision.
$7,500 is peanuts. For $7,500 and in the size range you're looking at, virtually any boat you buy is going to be some kind of a "work-in-progress". Just like a 30 year-old car, it will require constant fixing so plan on both money and time. If it isn't one thing it's going to be another. Replace blown-out $ail$, replace old rigging, replace running light$ that are crazed or don't work, replace the head, tank$, etc., the list is endless. And then there is bottom paint and hauling, and.....and.... The next comment will be about your budget - what is moorage costing there? At $200/mo that's $2,400/year. That is 1/3 of what you want to pay for the boat!!! At $300/mo it would be $3,600/mo which is almost half of your budget - just on moorage. Then there are property taxes, insurance (which will be required), annual license, etc. At this stage it'd be perhaps a little wiser to hold off on jumping into this dream and get some more hands-on experience, maybe make some more money working in a boat yard on your days off, banking more savings. Better yet, maybe even volunteering to crew on someone else's boat to do these short cruises. There must be some boat owners there that are getting along in years and could use an extra hand or two. Once you've been to these places a few times it'll start to be old hat and the newness will start to wear off. But if you like putzing around on the boat there will always be that work to do. It sounds like you're trying to be really methodical about this but you're also trying hard to make it pencil out. But be realistic and Good Luck in your decision.
What John said
I have been reading the replies waiting for someone to point out that it is not possible to buy a blue water capable boat for under $10K unless you expect a fixer-upper. This isn't some lake he's talking about here. If it were, the numbers would not be so far off. He's talking about sailing between the Hawaiian islands. If you get swept away in the current on your way to Molokai, you next stop may be Palmyra. Take it seriously. Good Luck,
I have been reading the replies waiting for someone to point out that it is not possible to buy a blue water capable boat for under $10K unless you expect a fixer-upper. This isn't some lake he's talking about here. If it were, the numbers would not be so far off. He's talking about sailing between the Hawaiian islands. If you get swept away in the current on your way to Molokai, you next stop may be Palmyra. Take it seriously. Good Luck,
Any more make/model Recommendations?
Much appreciated words of wisdom. To clarify: 1. Yup, 7500 is peanuts. I had to go that low on a reasonable estimate of what boat ownership costs. I have thousands more set aside for maintenance. Remember, 5 out of 6 weekends it is a coastal daysailer, and 9 out of 10 channel crossings will be only in lake-like conditions (which do happen fairly often.) 2. I'll gladly take an inboard, head, any kitchen facilities, wheel steering--anything I can get for that price. I was just listing the things I could live without if I had to.Absolutely not a fixer uppper. I'll expect plenty of ongoing projects. Hull, rigging, electronics, sails, engine must be good to go on Day 1. 3. I have found a mooring ball for .88 cents per foot/mo. where I'll keep it. 4. Thanks for the search link. I've looked at all three of those boats. One has been sold. One is junk. One is an option. 5. Boat ownership, to me, will be to escape the woman I have, not attract the affection of ones I don't have. 6. I looked at and sailed in an Ericson 25 for $7500. The hull was heavy and solid, the condition was immaculate--I just couldn't picture the mast and fixed rigging standing up to a bad day out there. But maybe I was wrong. How important is a keel-stepped vs. a deck stepped mast for my purposes? 7. Very good advice on cruising on others' boats. That is what I've been doing for one year. I've logged many channel crossings (no longer journeys yet, Would rather not go to Palmyra unless I intend to go there). 8. Maybe I am asking for a lot for little cost. But remember, this is not exaclty a blue-water ready boat I seek. It is a daysailer that is structurally sound enough to stay in one piece if I pick the wrong crossing day. People race these channels on glorified surfboards--only 7 hours one way. People swim these channels every year. People die in these channels every year on larger boats. It's all about predicting weather patterns. I guess I'm posting this to try to avoid this scenario: After 3 months of pleasant coastal Oahu cruising and channel crossings, JW finds himself in unpredicted 12 foot seas and 35mph winds 15 miles out from Ala Wai harbor. When he finally gets to the dock, his boat is coming apart at the seams, and the rigging is wrecked. The old sailor at the dock says: "Oh yeah, i could told you that would happen to a 1977 Catalina 27. The factory skimped out on X and Y and Z that year." 9. I will look into Morgan, Pearson, etc. Condition over construction at this age range--good advice, but Any more makers/years to especially seek? 10. Any more features I need to seek? Thanks for your thoughts, JW
Much appreciated words of wisdom. To clarify: 1. Yup, 7500 is peanuts. I had to go that low on a reasonable estimate of what boat ownership costs. I have thousands more set aside for maintenance. Remember, 5 out of 6 weekends it is a coastal daysailer, and 9 out of 10 channel crossings will be only in lake-like conditions (which do happen fairly often.) 2. I'll gladly take an inboard, head, any kitchen facilities, wheel steering--anything I can get for that price. I was just listing the things I could live without if I had to.Absolutely not a fixer uppper. I'll expect plenty of ongoing projects. Hull, rigging, electronics, sails, engine must be good to go on Day 1. 3. I have found a mooring ball for .88 cents per foot/mo. where I'll keep it. 4. Thanks for the search link. I've looked at all three of those boats. One has been sold. One is junk. One is an option. 5. Boat ownership, to me, will be to escape the woman I have, not attract the affection of ones I don't have. 6. I looked at and sailed in an Ericson 25 for $7500. The hull was heavy and solid, the condition was immaculate--I just couldn't picture the mast and fixed rigging standing up to a bad day out there. But maybe I was wrong. How important is a keel-stepped vs. a deck stepped mast for my purposes? 7. Very good advice on cruising on others' boats. That is what I've been doing for one year. I've logged many channel crossings (no longer journeys yet, Would rather not go to Palmyra unless I intend to go there). 8. Maybe I am asking for a lot for little cost. But remember, this is not exaclty a blue-water ready boat I seek. It is a daysailer that is structurally sound enough to stay in one piece if I pick the wrong crossing day. People race these channels on glorified surfboards--only 7 hours one way. People swim these channels every year. People die in these channels every year on larger boats. It's all about predicting weather patterns. I guess I'm posting this to try to avoid this scenario: After 3 months of pleasant coastal Oahu cruising and channel crossings, JW finds himself in unpredicted 12 foot seas and 35mph winds 15 miles out from Ala Wai harbor. When he finally gets to the dock, his boat is coming apart at the seams, and the rigging is wrecked. The old sailor at the dock says: "Oh yeah, i could told you that would happen to a 1977 Catalina 27. The factory skimped out on X and Y and Z that year." 9. I will look into Morgan, Pearson, etc. Condition over construction at this age range--good advice, but Any more makers/years to especially seek? 10. Any more features I need to seek? Thanks for your thoughts, JW
There are pearsons and tartans but the Flicka Thats Hot!
First of all, you are living in a sailors dream! Hawaii Pacific island hopping! I sure miss Maui. Wow, I envy you, NO Imean I REALLY REALLY envy you. I need to MOVE. Ok back to your question, Get a Tartan Ten, Pearson 28, Cal 25. If you push your budget a lil bit and wish to be able to sail anywhere in the world on a small boat and still look first class, get a Pacific Seacraft Flicka (a true blue waterboat). This small 20' rocks. ITS MORE MONEY BUT MAINTINANCE IS SMALLER THAN A 25-30FOOTer. So if you compund that to the x amount of years owning the boat, savings on the boat slips, maintinance etc, travel mooring fee's etc..., the Flicka would come out cheaper. Getting the Flicka would open up your sailing venue. You will not out grow it unless you have a family (yes, you will get girls with this boat) The Flicka is a Romantic Boat. It would be a shame to prep for a day of sailing and only to find out its too windy to go out. PS If you do get a Flicka please invite me to sail with you, If I ever go back to Hawaii. A Flicka is one small boat I would feel safe in a ocean storm the other is a a Dana 24.I would also go with a outboard. Swapping out an outboard would save you money and you can just pull it out and send it to the best mechanic on the island for repairs.
First of all, you are living in a sailors dream! Hawaii Pacific island hopping! I sure miss Maui. Wow, I envy you, NO Imean I REALLY REALLY envy you. I need to MOVE. Ok back to your question, Get a Tartan Ten, Pearson 28, Cal 25. If you push your budget a lil bit and wish to be able to sail anywhere in the world on a small boat and still look first class, get a Pacific Seacraft Flicka (a true blue waterboat). This small 20' rocks. ITS MORE MONEY BUT MAINTINANCE IS SMALLER THAN A 25-30FOOTer. So if you compund that to the x amount of years owning the boat, savings on the boat slips, maintinance etc, travel mooring fee's etc..., the Flicka would come out cheaper. Getting the Flicka would open up your sailing venue. You will not out grow it unless you have a family (yes, you will get girls with this boat) The Flicka is a Romantic Boat. It would be a shame to prep for a day of sailing and only to find out its too windy to go out. PS If you do get a Flicka please invite me to sail with you, If I ever go back to Hawaii. A Flicka is one small boat I would feel safe in a ocean storm the other is a a Dana 24.I would also go with a outboard. Swapping out an outboard would save you money and you can just pull it out and send it to the best mechanic on the island for repairs.
3. I have found a mooring ball for .88 cents per foot/mo. where I'll keep it.
"3. I have found a mooring ball for .88 cents per foot/mo. where I'll keep it." WOW What Marina is this? Please send me their # and address. Are you sure thats not "perday" prices?
"3. I have found a mooring ball for .88 cents per foot/mo. where I'll keep it." WOW What Marina is this? Please send me their # and address. Are you sure thats not "perday" prices?
JW
If you have thousands more set aside for maintenance, why not buy a beter boat? Dont make sense to me at all. Or even better..... use the $7500 for a down payment on a newer boat and the money set aside for maintenance can be used to help make payments. For $7500 all you will get in any decent shape will be maybe a 27 footer. Definately not a 30, unless of course its a junker at which point you wont have enough for fixing it up. Certain things just have a 'going price'. The going prices will definately drop quickly in the near future given the state of the economy. But still not a decent 30 footer in that price range. Tony B
If you have thousands more set aside for maintenance, why not buy a beter boat? Dont make sense to me at all. Or even better..... use the $7500 for a down payment on a newer boat and the money set aside for maintenance can be used to help make payments. For $7500 all you will get in any decent shape will be maybe a 27 footer. Definately not a 30, unless of course its a junker at which point you wont have enough for fixing it up. Certain things just have a 'going price'. The going prices will definately drop quickly in the near future given the state of the economy. But still not a decent 30 footer in that price range. Tony B
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