My 79' H27 icebox has no insulation around it and shares the same space with the engine compartment and aft cockpit locker- all of which are obviously heatet areas. Last season I bought a Coleman electric cooler (12v DC and comes with a 110v power adapter) and just kept it plugged in all the time and it works like a charm, in fact, on some cooler nights (in the 60's) things froze up inside it. But you quickly realize that after 8 hours of this thing being plugged in on battery power alone, you might want to make sure that your using only the house battery for fear of the manual hand crank method to start one's engine. (these things eat amps like kids eat viagra and the spec's are nowhere near the manufactures ratings) So I learned that by putting a 5lb bag of ice in it and plugg in the cooler for 10 minutes each hour during daylight and off for the night, that you can go 24hr's before having to recharge the battery and the bag of ice will last for about 36hr's. So it is manageable, although another nuisance to keep your eye on, the 60$ investment saved me 200$ in ice last year, and while at the slip plugged into shore power, I didn't have to take home all the Ketchup and etc... My plans this year are to insulate the icebox on it's outside with a sheet of (4' x 8' x 1") styrofoam given to me by a friend and gluing cut-outs to it's sides and then once again to the styrofoam making for a 2" barrier when all is said and done. Then I will rip out the cooling part of the Coleman and install it in my icebox and add another battery to my boat making for 2 house batteries and one for starting the motor (total of 3). Then add a switch to my alternator that will bypass the regulator to give me a wopping 20-26 amps of output instead of the 10 (8hp single cylinder diesel yanmar) so I wont have to run the shaker (motor) any more than I have to. What I might also do, is to buy another one of these coleman coolers and use it to keep my sunshowers hot after the sun goes down so that I can take a shower late at night in the cockpit (maybe I should buy a bigger boat?), becuse these coleman's also have a 'heating' option in addition to the cooling option. anyway, I'm not obsessed with these coolers, but the options, maintanence and usability for the price is practically unbeatable. Has anyone done anything different that works?
- Status
Be carefull
Remember to check the flame rating of your insolation if it is near the engine. Styrfoam of beedboard as it is known can be very flamable. You would be better of with Urithane board. It has a higher "R" value and flame rating is very low. The use of the cooler is a good idea. You can coat the Urithane with a sealer that will help. 1" of Urithane is equal to 2.5" of styrofoam. Good luck Jerry
Remember to check the flame rating of your insolation if it is near the engine. Styrfoam of beedboard as it is known can be very flamable. You would be better of with Urithane board. It has a higher "R" value and flame rating is very low. The use of the cooler is a good idea. You can coat the Urithane with a sealer that will help. 1" of Urithane is equal to 2.5" of styrofoam. Good luck Jerry
Thank you Jerry
Thank you Jerry
The icebox shares the same space with the space underneath the cockpit but, the icebox is about 2 feet from the engine which is actually seperated by a thin piece of fiberglass (which acts like a heat conveyer) So I highly doubt and after last season (my first with this boat) that there could actually be enough heat to warrant a fire hazard, but it is enough to help melt ice away in a non-insulated environment. The urathane insulation you mention is something I always thought of having to inject into a mold, not something I could buy in a sheet form to cut and glue to the sides of the icebox through the limited tiny access holes via the stove, drawers under the sink and laying in the starboard cockpit locker reaching over the diesel tank which leaves the starboard hull side of the icebox to be quite the bigger challenge. But then again, I could remove the counter top and take a different approach... I'm obviously after the R value, ease of intsallation and cost effectiveness without sacrificing safety. Sometimes I wish that the designers of the under 30 foot boats would take into consideration that some people actually stay on their boats for more than 3 days
Thank you Jerry
The icebox shares the same space with the space underneath the cockpit but, the icebox is about 2 feet from the engine which is actually seperated by a thin piece of fiberglass (which acts like a heat conveyer) So I highly doubt and after last season (my first with this boat) that there could actually be enough heat to warrant a fire hazard, but it is enough to help melt ice away in a non-insulated environment. The urathane insulation you mention is something I always thought of having to inject into a mold, not something I could buy in a sheet form to cut and glue to the sides of the icebox through the limited tiny access holes via the stove, drawers under the sink and laying in the starboard cockpit locker reaching over the diesel tank which leaves the starboard hull side of the icebox to be quite the bigger challenge. But then again, I could remove the counter top and take a different approach... I'm obviously after the R value, ease of intsallation and cost effectiveness without sacrificing safety. Sometimes I wish that the designers of the under 30 foot boats would take into consideration that some people actually stay on their boats for more than 3 days spray insulation.
I have a 30 of the same vintage. Similiar problem, I bought spray insulation in a can and simply covered the exposed areas of the cooler with it. I gained access to it through the settee from the cockpit. It looks like a frosted vanilla cake now...but one would have to put their head into a cubby hole to see this. I forced some styrofoam between the chest and the hull for insulation in that area too. The spray insulation foam dried hard, is fire resistant, and I gained maybe 20% better cooling times. I find this works good for an overnight (2 days) This year I will be adding a cooling "blanket" that one can put on top of everything inside of the cooler. Not sure the name of this item (do you know?) A 5 day cooler is a good option, as Hunter obviously didn't put much thought into this matter.
I have a 30 of the same vintage. Similiar problem, I bought spray insulation in a can and simply covered the exposed areas of the cooler with it. I gained access to it through the settee from the cockpit. It looks like a frosted vanilla cake now...but one would have to put their head into a cubby hole to see this. I forced some styrofoam between the chest and the hull for insulation in that area too. The spray insulation foam dried hard, is fire resistant, and I gained maybe 20% better cooling times. I find this works good for an overnight (2 days) This year I will be adding a cooling "blanket" that one can put on top of everything inside of the cooler. Not sure the name of this item (do you know?) A 5 day cooler is a good option, as Hunter obviously didn't put much thought into this matter.
Spray?
I looked into the spray option in terms of R value and ease, but, and I have to say this, it seems to me that it's messy and hard to confine- although it would do nicely on the side that is the most difficult. So you PD, just basically sprayed it in there and had no problems? I got to tell you, that would be nice Also, did you seal off access to the drain tube? Thats something I would always like to have access too, if not, plug up entirely and sponge out the water. One thing is for certain though, and this isn't all Hunter related, but that all boats made in the under 30 foot range are basically overlooked in this area. Perhaps the designers thought we would never take them for a 3 day cruise or longer and perhaps they were building to a price point.. I don't know, but it seems to me that adding insulation around an icebox during construction can't possibly amount to more than 20$. But then again, some of the newer Catalinas don't even offer an icebox, but rather a space to store the cooler of one's choice. :shakes head and shrugs shoulders:
I looked into the spray option in terms of R value and ease, but, and I have to say this, it seems to me that it's messy and hard to confine- although it would do nicely on the side that is the most difficult. So you PD, just basically sprayed it in there and had no problems? I got to tell you, that would be nice
Also, did you seal off access to the drain tube? Thats something I would always like to have access too, if not, plug up entirely and sponge out the water. One thing is for certain though, and this isn't all Hunter related, but that all boats made in the under 30 foot range are basically overlooked in this area. Perhaps the designers thought we would never take them for a 3 day cruise or longer and perhaps they were building to a price point.. I don't know, but it seems to me that adding insulation around an icebox during construction can't possibly amount to more than 20$. But then again, some of the newer Catalinas don't even offer an icebox, but rather a space to store the cooler of one's choice. :shakes head and shrugs shoulders:yup, spray...
"Also, did you seal off access to the drain tube?" I just sprayed around the drain, and while the foamy insulation was still wet, moved it around so I still have access to the drain tube. Once again, this ins't a pretty job, but it is in a spot where aesthetics do not matter that much. I did the whole job in about 1/2 an hour. I read an add somewhere about an insulation cover/cloth to put over your goods and ice IN the icebox that will keep ice 25%+ longer. This may be a good investment, but I can't seem to find it. If anyone knows anything about these covers, please make a post... try - www.practical-sailor.com/newspics/charts/873icebox.pdf
"Also, did you seal off access to the drain tube?" I just sprayed around the drain, and while the foamy insulation was still wet, moved it around so I still have access to the drain tube. Once again, this ins't a pretty job, but it is in a spot where aesthetics do not matter that much. I did the whole job in about 1/2 an hour. I read an add somewhere about an insulation cover/cloth to put over your goods and ice IN the icebox that will keep ice 25%+ longer. This may be a good investment, but I can't seem to find it. If anyone knows anything about these covers, please make a post... try - www.practical-sailor.com/newspics/charts/873icebox.pdf
Icebox refit.
Jim, you alluded to what I believe is the right approach. Take the galley apart and rebuild the box. I think that is the only way to make the difference worth the effort and expense. It is so hard to make a real difference in the 'R' value that most owners take my approach. Simply add the battery capacity to handle your longest time away from shorepower. There are many techniques to keeping the box cold. Only put cold items in the box and keep it as full as possible for example. On my H37C the lid leaked cold like crazy. I doubled the thickness and glued on weatherstrip. But someday I will start from scratch by stripping the galley.
Jim, you alluded to what I believe is the right approach. Take the galley apart and rebuild the box. I think that is the only way to make the difference worth the effort and expense. It is so hard to make a real difference in the 'R' value that most owners take my approach. Simply add the battery capacity to handle your longest time away from shorepower. There are many techniques to keeping the box cold. Only put cold items in the box and keep it as full as possible for example. On my H37C the lid leaked cold like crazy. I doubled the thickness and glued on weatherstrip. But someday I will start from scratch by stripping the galley.
Stripping the galley
I think would be the best approach, although given the boats age and etc, I feel that it would be more of a project than anythng else. For example, the icebox is taller (deeper) than half the height of the cabin roof height from the sole and therefore would have to be removed at an angle and then insterted with either a limited amount of insulation or inserted into a preformed cavity of insulation. OR, I could really go the whole 9 yards and rebuild the galley around the icebox... As I give this more thought with the given response so far, I think it would be wise to build from the outside of the icebox a styrofoam enclosure with a gap between the styro and icebox, drill some or make some holes that I can add spray in foam to which would expand and then fill in the leftover cavity. I am adding another battery to aid my time away from shore power and adding more of a boost to my charging system to make the electrical woes that much more tolerable, but adding solar cells and or a wind generator on a 27' boat is practically impractible without a severe sacrifice (the boom for instance is forever in my heads way) just to keep a non-insulated cooler, -cooler To keep an insulated icebox cooler is worth the extra minor trouble and I am by no means a dock jumper but rather an anchorage jumper that likes to spend 2 weeks ata time on the water and not worry about which anchorage has the best grocery stores and or how fast I can row the bags of ice to my boat each day without them melting first (I know, I'm preaching to the choir on this subject, but this non-insulated icebox thing is getting my goat while I'm planning a 30 day trip for July)
I think would be the best approach, although given the boats age and etc, I feel that it would be more of a project than anythng else. For example, the icebox is taller (deeper) than half the height of the cabin roof height from the sole and therefore would have to be removed at an angle and then insterted with either a limited amount of insulation or inserted into a preformed cavity of insulation. OR, I could really go the whole 9 yards and rebuild the galley around the icebox... As I give this more thought with the given response so far, I think it would be wise to build from the outside of the icebox a styrofoam enclosure with a gap between the styro and icebox, drill some or make some holes that I can add spray in foam to which would expand and then fill in the leftover cavity. I am adding another battery to aid my time away from shore power and adding more of a boost to my charging system to make the electrical woes that much more tolerable, but adding solar cells and or a wind generator on a 27' boat is practically impractible without a severe sacrifice (the boom for instance is forever in my heads way) just to keep a non-insulated cooler, -cooler
To keep an insulated icebox cooler is worth the extra minor trouble and I am by no means a dock jumper but rather an anchorage jumper that likes to spend 2 weeks ata time on the water and not worry about which anchorage has the best grocery stores and or how fast I can row the bags of ice to my boat each day without them melting first (I know, I'm preaching to the choir on this subject, but this non-insulated icebox thing is getting my goat while I'm planning a 30 day trip for July)insulating the icebox
We have a 79 H30 and are not too impressed with the icebox. If your galley is constructed like ours was you can't just take the countertop off as the ice chest is screwed to the countertop. At some point a previous owner had added a couple layers of that blue polyfoam insulation to the outside of the icebox which had to be pulled off to get at the screws that attached the icebox to the counter. It was not an easy Project because to reach most of the screws you have to crawl into the cockpit lazerette. We took our icebox out & are going to try to build a new one ala Don Casey. Dont use the white polystyreen foam he recommends 6 inches of the blue polyeurathane foam as the best insulation but given the size alloted I'd end up with an icebox the size of lunchbox. I figure I can get maybe 4 inches of foam if I change the shape a little. We'll see. Another option would be to put the old icebox back in and pour that two part expanding foam between the hull & icebox then add the blue polyfoam to the other side and underneath. We saw a vendor at the Newport Boatshow that had a product that was only an inch thick but had an R value = to 12 inches of foam. Only drawback was cost. To go with their product for the icebox & of course the kit for the lid was going to cost around $1,500. I've seen the insulating blankets in a local magazine & plan to add one to whatever we end up doing to the icebox. Good luck.
We have a 79 H30 and are not too impressed with the icebox. If your galley is constructed like ours was you can't just take the countertop off as the ice chest is screwed to the countertop. At some point a previous owner had added a couple layers of that blue polyfoam insulation to the outside of the icebox which had to be pulled off to get at the screws that attached the icebox to the counter. It was not an easy Project because to reach most of the screws you have to crawl into the cockpit lazerette. We took our icebox out & are going to try to build a new one ala Don Casey. Dont use the white polystyreen foam he recommends 6 inches of the blue polyeurathane foam as the best insulation but given the size alloted I'd end up with an icebox the size of lunchbox. I figure I can get maybe 4 inches of foam if I change the shape a little. We'll see. Another option would be to put the old icebox back in and pour that two part expanding foam between the hull & icebox then add the blue polyfoam to the other side and underneath. We saw a vendor at the Newport Boatshow that had a product that was only an inch thick but had an R value = to 12 inches of foam. Only drawback was cost. To go with their product for the icebox & of course the kit for the lid was going to cost around $1,500. I've seen the insulating blankets in a local magazine & plan to add one to whatever we end up doing to the icebox. Good luck.
I've had one of the insulating blankets . . .
for about 5 years and it really helps. Its nothing but a vinyl covered foil blanket, but it is quite effective. The icebox used to be very cool near the bottom where the ice is, but would be much warmer near the top. The insulating blanket essentially creates the same effect as a full icebox by sealing off the area above the food, keeping all your food and drinks much cooler and helping the ice to last longer. Don't expect a miracle from this little extra bit of insulation, but it does create a noticeable difference. I really recommend it.
for about 5 years and it really helps. Its nothing but a vinyl covered foil blanket, but it is quite effective. The icebox used to be very cool near the bottom where the ice is, but would be much warmer near the top. The insulating blanket essentially creates the same effect as a full icebox by sealing off the area above the food, keeping all your food and drinks much cooler and helping the ice to last longer. Don't expect a miracle from this little extra bit of insulation, but it does create a noticeable difference. I really recommend it.
Thank you Tammy
Thank you Tammy for the heads-up about the countertop.. I just got back from my boat and noticed that I can't remove the icebox unless I remove the counter top first and it appears, unlike your description, that my icebox is screwed in through the top of the counter top holding it in place which is now formica'd over. In fact, the whole counter top is screwed down to the cabintry from the top. SO I think that rather than messing around and practicing my non-existent wood working skills, I'll go the route of pouring in foam, or spaying it in and using the styrofoam to confine it on the 2 sides from expanding into my drawers and fuel tank. Then add some insulation to the wood cover of the icebox and hope for longer lasting ice. Now to make myself an electronic timer that will turn my refrigeration unit on and off for me while I wait for just slightly warmer weather to do the insulation thing.
Thank you Tammy for the heads-up about the countertop.. I just got back from my boat and noticed that I can't remove the icebox unless I remove the counter top first and it appears, unlike your description, that my icebox is screwed in through the top of the counter top holding it in place which is now formica'd over. In fact, the whole counter top is screwed down to the cabintry from the top. SO I think that rather than messing around and practicing my non-existent wood working skills, I'll go the route of pouring in foam, or spaying it in and using the styrofoam to confine it on the 2 sides from expanding into my drawers and fuel tank. Then add some insulation to the wood cover of the icebox and hope for longer lasting ice. Now to make myself an electronic timer that will turn my refrigeration unit on and off for me while I wait for just slightly warmer weather to do the insulation thing.
I did a combination of these suggestions except
for the blanket. During our rebuild, we ripped out everything. To get a bigger freezer, I went with one inch thick vacuum panels from RParts.com. They were custom making them but might have dropped the service. We used pour foam for the bulk of the rest of the work but it is tricky to keep where you need it. I bought it from these guys; http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/default.asp We aren't exactly running an ice box, but I hope that helps.
for the blanket. During our rebuild, we ripped out everything. To get a bigger freezer, I went with one inch thick vacuum panels from RParts.com. They were custom making them but might have dropped the service. We used pour foam for the bulk of the rest of the work but it is tricky to keep where you need it. I bought it from these guys; http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/default.asp We aren't exactly running an ice box, but I hope that helps.
Fred, Thanks for the info
on RParts. I just checked out their website & it seems to be a great resource for materials. I don't plan on adding refrigeration but the insulating panels have a higher R value than the blue polyurathane foam. It seems that they still do custom orders for the insulation. I really like the insulated hatches as it will solve that problem for me. Previous hatch didn't sit flush and am sure it let a lot of hot air in. Sorry PD, I don't have the name of the insulating blanket available right now but will look for it.
on RParts. I just checked out their website & it seems to be a great resource for materials. I don't plan on adding refrigeration but the insulating panels have a higher R value than the blue polyurathane foam. It seems that they still do custom orders for the insulation. I really like the insulated hatches as it will solve that problem for me. Previous hatch didn't sit flush and am sure it let a lot of hot air in. Sorry PD, I don't have the name of the insulating blanket available right now but will look for it.
- Status