Okay, here is my story, I grew up sailing smaller sailboats that I was very comfortable with. These were smaller and if I pushed it too far and they flipped over, it was no big deal. Now I have a C-22, and I am finding myself MUCH more cautious (protecting my investment), I seem to let out on the mainsail a little as soon as the boat heels over much at all, so I guess I am curious how far is too far. How far over should the boat be running, and at what point should I pull it back?? Do I just cleat the sail and watch it, or do I constantly adjust with line in hand? Obviously in a smaller boat, I would run it on the rails, trying to get as much speed as possible, but I assume a cruising boat is much different. Can anyone give me some insight?
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M
mg
two ways
well you are not going to turtle the 22. it should be quite comfortable in the 15 to 25 degrees heeled range for best performance. although some folks sail a bit flatter. leave the main cleated and let the boat go over . you will simply develop more weather helm , round up and thats that. it is a cruising boat and is not a Laser or anything. i ease the traveler in a puff or i drive a little higher depending on how hard i want to work. downwind ,drive down in a puff and up in a lull . you'll do fine. unlike dingy sailing there isnt the tendency to be all or none . everything is a lot slower on a cabin boat. and the effects of a mistake are not as catastophic, think in these terms the c22 is 2250 lbs and 212 sq ft of sail. the laser in 140 lbs plus 195 for the skipper and 76 sq ft sail. the ratio tells the story . go have fun!!!
well you are not going to turtle the 22. it should be quite comfortable in the 15 to 25 degrees heeled range for best performance. although some folks sail a bit flatter. leave the main cleated and let the boat go over . you will simply develop more weather helm , round up and thats that. it is a cruising boat and is not a Laser or anything. i ease the traveler in a puff or i drive a little higher depending on how hard i want to work. downwind ,drive down in a puff and up in a lull . you'll do fine. unlike dingy sailing there isnt the tendency to be all or none . everything is a lot slower on a cabin boat. and the effects of a mistake are not as catastophic, think in these terms the c22 is 2250 lbs and 212 sq ft of sail. the laser in 140 lbs plus 195 for the skipper and 76 sq ft sail. the ratio tells the story . go have fun!!!
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Chris Gonzales
I agree
S, It is impossible to flip your boat over from strong winds alone. Of course, you should reef or change sails in heavy wind conditions, etc. When I first learned to sail (Capri 25) I had similar feelings as yours. I wanted the boat to stay flat with little heel. It felt very uncomfortable for the boat to heel so much, especially in a gust of wind. But from reading and speaking to others I knew the boat couldn't capsize due to the balast so eventually I started to let her lean over and experiment. As mentioned earlier, the boat will develop weather helm and head up. Surprise, no capsize! I then felt safer. My suggestion is to get out there and let her rip. KEEP TRYING to lean the boat over as far as you can. If you are in mild to moderate wind conditions you will find it very difficult to keep the boat leaned as far as you are trying because of the development of weather helm. While doing this you will get a very good feel for the boat and also come to realize that the boat will FIGHT you to go back towards more level sailing. Aha! No more worries about flipping over. One of the things that scares new sailors (or some old sailors with new boats) is how quickly a boat CAN heel over. This can cause a tendency to overreact. Just go out and play with her (the boat)and you will find your comfort zone in handling her. Also remember...you can always let go the sheets if things get too wierd for you, anyway. Chris C30 "Cg2" #1408
S, It is impossible to flip your boat over from strong winds alone. Of course, you should reef or change sails in heavy wind conditions, etc. When I first learned to sail (Capri 25) I had similar feelings as yours. I wanted the boat to stay flat with little heel. It felt very uncomfortable for the boat to heel so much, especially in a gust of wind. But from reading and speaking to others I knew the boat couldn't capsize due to the balast so eventually I started to let her lean over and experiment. As mentioned earlier, the boat will develop weather helm and head up. Surprise, no capsize! I then felt safer. My suggestion is to get out there and let her rip. KEEP TRYING to lean the boat over as far as you can. If you are in mild to moderate wind conditions you will find it very difficult to keep the boat leaned as far as you are trying because of the development of weather helm. While doing this you will get a very good feel for the boat and also come to realize that the boat will FIGHT you to go back towards more level sailing. Aha! No more worries about flipping over. One of the things that scares new sailors (or some old sailors with new boats) is how quickly a boat CAN heel over. This can cause a tendency to overreact. Just go out and play with her (the boat)and you will find your comfort zone in handling her. Also remember...you can always let go the sheets if things get too wierd for you, anyway. Chris C30 "Cg2" #1408
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Lisa Woodburn
I've asked the basically the same question here.
and the responses have pretty much been been that you have to do things totally $%^&*#'d up to capsize a C22. It has been done, though. If she flips over, the keel could crash through and smash the hull and sink her. For some reason, I think 15 degree heel is enough at first.... I felt the same as you do when I first got my C22. I'd sailed on 36' sailboats with my folks, who knew what they were doing, and sailed Sunfish against my stepsister - betting who could keep the Sunfish's at an approximately 45% heel for the longest time before flipping over... There's no flipping back over a C22 like a smaller sailboat if she turns turtle. (yes, I've asked that on this website). As you become more accustomed to your boat, you'll feel more comfortable... she's a fun boat to sail. I'm testing my C22 too, and consider myself a novice (bought the boat last fall). We've been caught in 25+ winds without reefing the main or taking down the jib (110% jib that day)and mine's held up fine... I was very cautious (OK, a little scared) that day, and kept the sails out more than most, because I saw a sailboat ahead of me get knocked over by a gust (and come back up unharmed), but I think that was an 18' that got knocked down. The problem I had that day with all sails fully up was that the bow was occasionally pushed AWAY by the wind, so we had to play with the trim to keep our course straight. Since that day, I've found myself more confident in pulling the sheets in tighter - and enjoying the ride! Good luck & have FUN! Lisa
and the responses have pretty much been been that you have to do things totally $%^&*#'d up to capsize a C22. It has been done, though. If she flips over, the keel could crash through and smash the hull and sink her. For some reason, I think 15 degree heel is enough at first.... I felt the same as you do when I first got my C22. I'd sailed on 36' sailboats with my folks, who knew what they were doing, and sailed Sunfish against my stepsister - betting who could keep the Sunfish's at an approximately 45% heel for the longest time before flipping over... There's no flipping back over a C22 like a smaller sailboat if she turns turtle. (yes, I've asked that on this website). As you become more accustomed to your boat, you'll feel more comfortable... she's a fun boat to sail. I'm testing my C22 too, and consider myself a novice (bought the boat last fall). We've been caught in 25+ winds without reefing the main or taking down the jib (110% jib that day)and mine's held up fine... I was very cautious (OK, a little scared) that day, and kept the sails out more than most, because I saw a sailboat ahead of me get knocked over by a gust (and come back up unharmed), but I think that was an 18' that got knocked down. The problem I had that day with all sails fully up was that the bow was occasionally pushed AWAY by the wind, so we had to play with the trim to keep our course straight. Since that day, I've found myself more confident in pulling the sheets in tighter - and enjoying the ride! Good luck & have FUN! Lisa
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Dave LaPere
Well now !!!!
I think that there are some great answers here. Personaly, I'll side with Lisa. Mainly because she had asked the same question when she first bought her boat as well, and if memory serves me correctly I told her 15-18 degress for me was comfortable. You can stand the boat on it's rail and if you have a standard sail package it will not in most cases turn turtle. The boat has been designed so that it cannot be oversailed to the point of knock down. That is in about 99% of the cases, the sails fill to capacity and the boat heels over enough as to begin dumping excess air out of the sails on their own and wanting to return back to an up right position. Now then if you are wanting the kind of white knucle ride the Cat 22 will give it to you but it is not her best suit. You will find that 5-6 knots (hull speed) she does her best. 15-18 degrees give you your best control at the helm as well. Happy Sailing, Dave LaPere PS watch out for the static electricity. Last week-end my dog got the shock of his life. Poor thing thought I did it to him. He hasn't talked to me all week. LOL
I think that there are some great answers here. Personaly, I'll side with Lisa. Mainly because she had asked the same question when she first bought her boat as well, and if memory serves me correctly I told her 15-18 degress for me was comfortable. You can stand the boat on it's rail and if you have a standard sail package it will not in most cases turn turtle. The boat has been designed so that it cannot be oversailed to the point of knock down. That is in about 99% of the cases, the sails fill to capacity and the boat heels over enough as to begin dumping excess air out of the sails on their own and wanting to return back to an up right position. Now then if you are wanting the kind of white knucle ride the Cat 22 will give it to you but it is not her best suit. You will find that 5-6 knots (hull speed) she does her best. 15-18 degrees give you your best control at the helm as well. Happy Sailing, Dave LaPere PS watch out for the static electricity. Last week-end my dog got the shock of his life. Poor thing thought I did it to him. He hasn't talked to me all week. LOL
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Alan Potter
Heeling
Unlike you with a Catalina 22, I have a capri 16.5 and found myself alittle squimish in a good blow. I have found that most of the overcompensating comes from my own inexperiance and not enough confidence in the boat itself. Each time I go out I try to push myself and the boat just alittle further. I have not capsized yet and have come home with some great stories for the family. I still find I'm cautious with others on board, but I have more self confidence and am willing to push it just alittle more. I think the best thing you can do is just go out there and sail the heck out of her until your just more comfortable at the helm.
Unlike you with a Catalina 22, I have a capri 16.5 and found myself alittle squimish in a good blow. I have found that most of the overcompensating comes from my own inexperiance and not enough confidence in the boat itself. Each time I go out I try to push myself and the boat just alittle further. I have not capsized yet and have come home with some great stories for the family. I still find I'm cautious with others on board, but I have more self confidence and am willing to push it just alittle more. I think the best thing you can do is just go out there and sail the heck out of her until your just more comfortable at the helm.
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VALDO
let 'er rip!
i fly my c22 in the bay on the Tx gulf coast and the winds in the spring & summer are considered hefty on average(2-4ft seas with 20-25mph winds). my c22 does fine and she heels well on a broad reach point of sail. if it gets to the point that the jib is skirting the foam, i merely change the point of sail midway upwind and/or trim the sails. i encourage you to let her rip so you'll gain confidence in what your vessel is capable of doing. if things get 'hairy' for you, heave to, drop your jib, and fly with just the main sail, reefed or full, or put a storm jib as i do when the gulf winds start gusting to 30mph. good luck. valdo satx; ¡Marisol!
i fly my c22 in the bay on the Tx gulf coast and the winds in the spring & summer are considered hefty on average(2-4ft seas with 20-25mph winds). my c22 does fine and she heels well on a broad reach point of sail. if it gets to the point that the jib is skirting the foam, i merely change the point of sail midway upwind and/or trim the sails. i encourage you to let her rip so you'll gain confidence in what your vessel is capable of doing. if things get 'hairy' for you, heave to, drop your jib, and fly with just the main sail, reefed or full, or put a storm jib as i do when the gulf winds start gusting to 30mph. good luck. valdo satx; ¡Marisol!
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