I need to add 2" to the bottom of my mast

[Joe11688]

I have a 1986 O'Day 222 that I bought new in a boat show. It has a 27' Z-190 Z-Difusion Aluminum mast with internal halyards. This is my second mast. The first on bit the dust back in the mid 90s off Newport RI.

When I had this mast made up by a rigger, I had them install a Kenyon hinged tabernacle top plate hinge plate, plus a fabricated stainless steel mast plug which I believe caused the bottom of my mast to corrode over the years. I mounted the lower hinge and the utility plate on a piece of 1" thick Teak to the cabin top myself.

Last summer I had to cut 2" off the bottom of my mast. I had to use the same mast plug over again in order to keep using my boat. I made up the two inches by using two 1" pieces of Trex.
It works, but it's too heavy and it looks a little hacky.
I need to eliminate that mast plug and go with something light and strong.
My plan is to cut out a piece of Trex that will fit into the mast and bolt it to a 1/4" Aluminum plate. I could use five wood screws through the side of the mast to secure the Trex block. The Aluminum plate can take the weight of the mast and could overlap it about 1/4" all the way around which could cut down on the weight.
My problem is; What material could I use between the 1/4" plate and the top tabernacle hinge plate?
Shortening my stays is out of the question. I have a CDI Roller Furler mounted on a 5" tang on my bow stem chain plate which provides clearance needed under the drum for my bow anchor roller.
I'm posting pics of this monstrosity so you can understand my problem. The company that mfg this mast is out of business. I used to have the old bent up mast years ago but like and idiot, I gave to some guy who wanted it for scrap metal.
The trex on the cabin top under the lower lower hinge and utility plate is permanent. I had originally mounted the lower hing plate and utility plate on a 1" thick Teak board back in the 90s, but that's another story.
At any rate, if anyone has any ideas please chime in.

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

A tidy solution

Hi Joe - Maybe you could trace us a template of the cross section of your mast. Someone probably has a junk mast (like you did) laying around that they could send you a small section and you could have it welded on.

 

[mitiempo]

I would think the easiest and neatest solution would be to have the base remade adding the 2" in either stainless or aluminum by a metalshop, replacing the teak block at the same time.

 

[CarlN]

I'm assuming you are trying to do this yourself for minimum cost. I'd replace the trex with white or grey Starboard. Defender has it in small pieces for a reasonable cost. The color will be a close match to the gelcoat and you can shape it with hand tools to look like an original Oday fitting. The only caution with Starboard is that it doesn't glue well and wood screws should not be in tension as they can slowly pull out. Thru-bolting (with nuts recessed into the starboard is very strong.

Carl

 

[Joe11688]

Hi Joe - Maybe you could trace us a template of the cross section of your mast. Someone probably has a junk mast (like you did) laying around that they could send you a small section and you could have it welded on.

Hi Lance,
I'm not sure that I really want to go that route right now. I believe that I can cut out a mast plug out of Trex and use the Aluminum plate to take the weight of the mast.
Right now, my boat is under a tarp and I'm using the mast as a ridge pole. Every year I remove the stays, and spreaders and wrap the mast with old polytarp for chafe protection for the main tarp. I removed that Mickey Mouse tabernacle and plug from the mast. It's sitting in a corner in my bedroom. I was planning on taking it with me to a couple of marine consignment stores in the Newport RI area to see what I can find for my new Mickey Mouse job.
Hey, worse comes to worse, I'll just use what I made up and go with that if I have to. When the mast is up, that thing works. My only concern is the weight of this contraption on the end of my mast when I trailer my boat too and from the club once a year. Trex is very strong but it's pretty heavy.

I ran this problem by Capt'n Pauley http://www.thevirtualboatyard.com/2009/06/building-a-better-mast-step.html
but you only get one shot on his blog. It's not like this forum where you can talk back and forth. Evidently, he thinks I have one of those open tabernacles that are designed to receive a mast with a pin through it. My friend's Seaward 22 has one of these tabernacles.
Two of sons do metal fabrication and welding, so I'm all set that way. Although, I don't think they do Heliarc welding which requires certain equipment that they don't have.
I suppose that I could always cut those two pieces of Trex down to where they can look like the shape of the mast and change the bolt patterns. That may reduce the weight a little and make that contraption look a little more presentable. Right now, this thing weighs about 5 lbs.
Maybe I could make something out of fiberglass. :dance: That would be lighter wouldn't it?
I'm sure I'll come up with something after a while. I just don't want to think too hard. I might hurt myself.

 

[Joe11688]

I would think the easiest and neatest solution would be to have the base remade adding the 2" in either stainless or aluminum by a metalshop, replacing the teak block at the same time.

One of the first things I did was trailer my boat down to a marine fabrication shop on the river not far from the club. I talked to the guy and he hemmed and hawed a little. He mentioned cutting 2" off the mast and ordering a piece of mast to weld to it, along with some flat stock Aluminum. Then he told me that the labor alone would be $300.00.
That's when I said to myself, "I don't think so!"
I bid the guy farewell and took my boat home to figure out a different plan which required thinking outside of the box.
I had my kid come down the house with his cross cut saw with a carbide tip blade and he cut 2" off the mast.
I think that the hardest job was trying to spot the screw holes for the mast plug. Getting the 2" back by using two pieces of Trex was easy, and on that following week I was out on the river again sailing my boat.

I didn't know this at the time but that large metal fabrication shop was in the process of going belly up. They had millions of dollars tied up in that place. Rock singer Billy Joel had been storing two of his boats there every winter. I took a few pics of his 57' powerboat, "Vendetta" out of my kayak a few years ago. They had a canvas shop, boat slips, and boat storage at that place. What a shame.
I'm a retired "Geezer" looking for a cheaper way out and if it's one thing I'm good at, it's Mickey Mousing.

 

[Joe11688]

I'm assuming you are trying to do this yourself for minimum cost. I'd replace the trex with white or grey Starboard. Defender has it in small pieces for a reasonable cost. The color will be a close match to the gelcoat and you can shape it with hand tools to look like an original Oday fitting. The only caution with Starboard is that it doesn't glue well and wood screws should not be in tension as they can slowly pull out. Thru-bolting (with nuts recessed into the starboard is very strong.

Carl

Carl,
That seems like a good solution. My friend Wayne in the club has a Seaward 22 and he's forever replacing stuff like companion way hatch boards, hand rails and such with Starboard.

One of my main concerns was how to keep the wood screws from getting loose and backing out of the Trex. I know from past experience that the Phillips head machine screws would back out of that stainless steel mast plug if I didn't use Devcon Lock-Tite cement on the threads.
So my question would be, can I use that stuff on the wood screws through the side of my mast going into the Trex? Maybe I could add the 1/4" Aluminum plate to take the weight of the mast and use the StarBoard to make up the 2".
Maybe I'll take a ride down to see Wayne on Saturday and bring my Tabernacle with me. He's pretty clever when it comes to stuff like this. I've picked up a lot of good ideas from him through the years. His newest project is a DYI boom Break using a Black Diamond mountain climbing Super Eight descending device. I ordered one last year and plan on installing it on my boat this spring.
Anyway, thank you for your insights and suggestions Carl. I'll look into it.
Joe

 

[Ray Bowles]

Trinkka, A company called Dwyermast.com has almost every mast base ever made. There you very possibly might find a base with the hinge eyes cast into it. That would take care of the corrosion. By moving the mast to the rear while trailering or fabricating an extension that continues upward from the trailer front upright would possibly solve the support problem.
I used the post for the trailer loading winch to mount a small extension rod/pipe with a "U" shaped end that fit under the mast and supported it. The pipe was spaced out from the post with a 1/2 inch wooden spacer to clear the winch u-bolts. You can figure that part out. "Mickey" is cool.
Just some additional ideas. Good Luck,
Ray

 

[Don12364]

DIY Extension

The conventional method of adding a length to a mast is to use an internal sleeve and to rivet it in position with several vertical rows of close spaced rivets. This is how masts are built when they are longer than the available length of extrusion.
In your case a 2" extension would be fouled by the existing mast heel fitting so this will be difficult.

I suggest you call the USA representative of Z-Spars and discuss it with him.
The UK representative is well known for his most commonsense and helpful approach and there is no reason to think the US guy will be any different.

My suggested method would be to obtain two 12" long offcuts of the existing profile from Z-Spars (ex Z-Diffusion). Or, if an internal sleeve section is available so much the better, but otherwise use mast section.
In the past they have given me offcuts and I only paid for the postage.

If using mast section cut a lengthwise piece out of the section so it can be re-formed to slide inside the existing mast.

Now cut another 4" off your mast (eek!) and, using monel rivets and zinc chromate paste, rivet the sleeve in place inside the mast using several rows of close spaced rivets running longitudinally. Fit it 6" into the mast with 6" protruding.
Then sculpt the end of this internal sleeve to give clearance for the existing heel fitting.
Next rivet on a 6" length of extrusion over the sleeve to restore the mast to its original length and appearance.

Yes it is a big job but a 'proper' one and the boat will also be saleable when the time comes to sell it.

 

[Joe11688]

Trinkka, A company called Dwyermast.com has almost every mast base ever made. There you very possibly might find a base with the hinge eyes cast into it. That would take care of the corrosion. By moving the mast to the rear while trailering or fabricating an extension that continues upward from the trailer front upright would possibly solve the support problem.
I used the post for the trailer loading winch to mount a small extension rod/pipe with a "U" shaped end that fit under the mast and supported it. The pipe was spaced out from the post with a 1/2 inch wooden spacer to clear the winch u-bolts. You can figure that part out. "Mickey" is cool.
Just some additional ideas. Good Luck, Thanks you.
Ray

Hi Ray,
Dwyer doesn't carry any type of mast or boom extrusions that will fit a Z-Spar mast. I checked this a long time ago. All the extrusions on my spar were made in France back then and assembled in Bristol RI.
Rig-Rite in Warwick RI still has some Z-Spar parts but they were the people who worked on my new mast and made up that stainless steel mast plug. The rigger who did the work did an excellent job on putting the mast together. He cut a new slot for an exit plate above the winch for my Jib Halyard and installed the jam cleat for it. I was able to use the mast winch for both halyards. He also installed a steaming light and wired it up. I only wish that they hadn't made up that mast plug out of stainless. Stainless steel next to Aluminum,--not good.
I made a roller furler drum support for trailering out of wood and PVC pipe a few years ago, but I'm bound and determined get rid of this heavy monstrosity in favor of something that is not only lighter in weight, but presentable.
A guy named Rudy Nickerson who owns a marine store not far from where I live has all the O'Day parts including most of the sailboat molds. Having worked at the O'Day factory years ago, he's pretty knowledgeable.
The last time I visited his store I told him about my problem and he asked me for the old 2" piece of the mast that I cut, so I gave it to him. He said that he was going to try to get some mast plugs made up for the Z-190 mast and carry them in stock.
Most of time it costs more to make up the mold to cast something like that than it's actually worth. He has a lot of money tied up in O'Day and Pearson parts. He just bought out a large supply of Alden Yacht parts that were stored in a warehouse at the East Passage Yachting Ctr in Portsmouth RI, so if he never gets these mast plugs made up it's completely understandable.
I had showed my Mickey Mouse contraption to Rudy before I installed it on my mast and he said that it was doable.
I used cut up pieces of a plastic milk jug in between the mast plug and the inside of the mast to separate the two metals before I screwed it on.
I'm getting more ideas from you guys than I've gotten from anyone on the other forums and for that I am deeply grateful.

 

[Rick Webb]

Have You Tried These Guys?

http://www.usspars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/CATALOG2009.pdf

 

[Joe11688]

The conventional method of adding a length to a mast is to use an internal sleeve and to rivet it in position with several vertical rows of close spaced rivets. This is how masts are built when they are longer than the available length of extrusion.
In your case a 2" extension would be fouled by the existing mast heel fitting so this will be difficult.

I suggest you call the USA representative of Z-Spars and discuss it with him.
The UK representative is well known for his most commonsense and helpful approach and there is no reason to think the US guy will be any different.

My suggested method would be to obtain two 12" long offcuts of the existing profile from Z-Spars (ex Z-Diffusion). Or, if an internal sleeve section is available so much the better, but otherwise use mast section.
In the past they have given me offcuts and I only paid for the postage.

If using mast section cut a lengthwise piece out of the section so it can be re-formed to slide inside the existing mast.

Now cut another 4" off your mast (eek!) and, using monel rivets and zinc chromate paste, rivet the sleeve in place inside the mast using several rows of close spaced rivets running longitudinally. Fit it 6" into the mast with 6" protruding.
Then sculpt the end of this internal sleeve to give clearance for the existing heel fitting.
Next rivet on a 6" length of extrusion over the sleeve to restore the mast to its original length and appearance.

Yes it is a big job but a 'proper' one and the boat will also be saleable when the time comes to sell it.

The original mast heel fitting that came with my mast was a cheap cast Aluminum tabernacle with a sheave at the bottom for the Jib Halyard.
When I had my new Z-Spar mast made up, I told the rigger that I wanted a stainless steel hinge plate in it's place. At that time he told me that Z- Spar went out of business and he was lucky to find a Z-190 mast for me. Z-Spar was located in Bristol RI U.S.A. and they are long gone.

I thought about the possibility of using a sleeve and having it Heliarc welded but sleeves for this mast aren't available.
As far as the mast plug is concerned, I'm going to make my own plug out of Trex or StarBoard. Anything will be better than stainless steel. That's what got me into this problem in the first place.
I really like this mast and I wouldn't be happy with a new mast that might be heavier in weight and have external halyards.

I bought this boat new back in 1986 at the Boston Boat Show. I even toured the O'Day factory twice back then and watched it being built.
The dealer had a huge stock of these boats in four warehouses but I was able to get him to persuade the O'Day people to mount a full stern pulpit on my boat and leave off the winches and tracks w/cars for me to install on the combings. I must have drove these people crazy with all the questions I asked them concerning the boat, but the dealer and factory people were great to me.
I started doing mods to my boat the very first day I got it home. I've done over 30 of them through the years so far and there's no end in site. She's been a great boat, --a keeper in my opinion. I plan on keeping this boat as long as I can and after I croak, my family can do whatever they want with it. As it is I'm pushing 70 and almost ready for the bone yard.

 

[Joe11688]

http://www.usspars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/CATALOG2009.pdf

Rick,
That's a great site! Thank you for that one. I'm going to stick it in my "Favorites" and send it to my friend Rudy of D&R Marine.
I noticed that they offer technical advice.
I had gone to the web site of the people who made up my new mast back in the 1990s and they offer technical advice too,-- at a minimum cost of $100 an hour, so it says in small print. When I read that, I had to chuckle to myself because I would be paying them for a solution to a problem that they created in the first place. Hey you've got to have a sense of humor at times to keep from going wacky. Thanks again Rick. I'll look into that.
Joe

 

[Don12364]

Hi again,
There is a popular misconception in the US that Z Spars went out of business some years ago.
Z Spars are a French company and very much alive today. (Maybe the US agent went belly up?)
Here is the link to the Z Spars France web site - in French - typically!:-
http://www.z-spars.com/produits.html
Here is the link to the Z Spars US agent US Spars:-
http://www.usspars.com/
here is the link to your mast section Z 190 (from US Spars web site):-
http://www.usspars.com/products/section/?type=Delta Masts
These are their US partners/agents:-
http://www.usspars.com/sparing-partners/

For info; The drawing of your mast section is attached herewith.

Surely somebody somewhere must be able to help or advise.
Regards.

 

[Cool Beans]

You mentioned above your sons could fabricate something for you? Why not get a hold of some S.S. plate and have them weld up a new base for you? Move the tabernacle to the top of the new base, it should look factory then. Or make something out of plywood and glass to the same effect?

I made a quick drawing of something to make out of S.S. I figure a picture is worth a thousand words :Liar:

 

[Joe11688]

Hi again,
There is a popular misconception in the US that Z Spars went out of business some years ago.
Z Spars are a French company and very much alive today. (Maybe the US agent went belly up?)
Here is the link to the Z Spars France web site - in French - typically!:-
http://www.z-spars.com/produits.html
Here is the link to the Z Spars US agent US Spars:-
http://www.usspars.com/
here is the link to your mast section Z 190 (from US Spars web site):-
http://www.usspars.com/products/section/?type=Delta Masts
These are their US partners/agents:-
http://www.usspars.com/sparing-partners/

For info; The drawing of your mast section is attached herewith.

Surely somebody somewhere must be able to help or advise.
Regards.

Thank you for the links Donalex. I'll check it out.

 

[Joe11688]

You mentioned above your sons could fabricate something for you? Why not get a hold of some S.S. plate and have them weld up a new base for you? Move the tabernacle to the top of the new base, it should look factory then. Or make something out of plywood and glass to the same effect?

I made a quick drawing of something to make out of S.S. I figure a picture is worth a thousand words :Liar:

Thank you Cool Beans. I'm thinking of making something out of StarBoard or Fiberglass. I need to get away from stainless steel if I can. Your idea is a good one but I'd rather not mess with my lower hinge sitting on the cabin top.

I really need to keep the tabernacle hinge plate on the cabin where it is now because if I raise it up too high, I'm afraid that my Gin Pole won't work too well without having to raise my mast holding crutch in the stern.
It's kind of hard to explain but when my mast is pinned to the tabernacle and sitting in the mast crutch ready to be raised , it's almost horizontal with the mast head a little higher than level.
I have to admit that what you drew out would look a lot better on my boat than what I have now. I like the design of it and it's another way of thinking outside of the box like I did when I came up with that Mickey Mouse monstrosity last year.

What I'd like to know is; If I make a mast plug out of Trex that can fit in the bottom of my mast, could I get the wood screws driven through the side of the mast, to hold it in there without backing out? The Trex will not be bearing the weight of the mast mind you. I plan on using a 1/4" Aluminum plate attached to the Trex which will bear the weight of the mast.
If I can't use wood screws, what could I use? If I use stainless steel screws I'm going to insulate them from the mast somehow. Also, I think I'll make some kind of a provision for any trapped water in the mast to have a place to run out. I want to cover all the bases so I never have to go through this again. Thank you for the sketch!
Joe

 

[Joe11688]

Here's a sketch of my original Z-190 mast with that cast Aluminum tabernacle. Man I hated that set up. The Jib Halyard exited through a sheave at the bottom of the tabernacle and I had to pull up on it to raise my Gennie. When it came time to lower the Gennie, the halyard was always getting snagged on the sheave and I was forever going back and forth trying to straighten it out as I tried to pull the Gennie down.
Losing that mast off Newport back in the 1990s was a blessing in disguise for me.
I wasn't about to let them put that tabernacle on my new mast.

A lower stay let go that day while I was out sailing and the mast was in the water bent in two. All I heard was a loud crack and she went by the board in a flick of an eye. It was just that fast.
The rigger replaced the mast and the lower stays. He said that the upper stays were OK. He handed me the new Kenyon hinge plate and the utility plate and told me to mount it on my cabin on a 1" thick Teak board and I did.

Last summer I had a tiny leak coming in around the threads of one of the tabernacle bolts so I replaced the Teak with a 12"X5.5"X 1" thick Trex and bedded it with Butyl Tape per "MainSail's" instructions. I also replaced my bow stem chain plate. I was a busy fellow last year. I only lost a couple of weeks sailing. Being a retired Geezer, I'm glad that I know how to do things like this because I can't afford to pay some boatyard big bucks to do it.

 

[Larry Wilson]

If your main concern is the cosmetic side of things, buy a universal mast boot from West Marine or Defender.com or Sailboatowners.com and cover the entire thing up.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=50045&subdeptNum=50088&classNum=50094

 

[Joe11688]

If your main concern is the cosmetic side of things, buy a universal mast boot from West Marine or Defender.com or Sailboatowners.com and cover the entire thing up.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=50045&subdeptNum=50088&classNum=50094

Hey Larry,
That's not a bad idea! I wouldn't buy one off Worst Marine though. I'd could probably make one. I made spreader boots out of leather years ago and they're still in good condition.
Once in a great while my Starboard Gennie sheet gets caught on one of my wires going to the mast. A mast boot would probably cure that problem.
I'm really more concerned with the weight of this thing than anything else though. Ridding my mast of that S.S. plug will cut the weight down quite a bit and prevent electrolysis.
I think I could use a 1/4 Aluminum plate to take the weight of the mast and I could shape it to the contour of the mast. I could make up a plug out of Trex that will fit into the mast and bolt it to that plate with two long bolts going to my top tabernacle hinge. I could make up the 2" with Trex and make it up to the contour of the mast.
What I have now is square in appearance and there are four bolts holding it. Two bolts will hold that together with no problem. I think this would solve the weight problem. If it comes out looking fugly I'll hide it with a boot. You guys have been coming up with some great suggestions and I really appreciate it. I don't plan on doing anything yet until I've exhausted all possibilities. This is what it looks like and I can make all the changes in my workshop. It only takes 15 minutes to attach it to my mast.