Ah. Now that I've actually READ what you wrote..... I see that!
Here's a short vid with 4. Light air on the 260. As the crew shrinks everyone has to double up on tasks. But it only takes 10 seconds.
I need a tutorial video on how to use a symetrical spinnaker
- Thread starter centerline
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Here's a short vid with 4. Light air on the 260. As the crew shrinks everyone has to double up on tasks. But it only takes 10 seconds.
2 persons on board. 1 crew working the deck, 1 at the helm....
a sock is a luxury that i see the value in and will build if i ever learn how to use the spinnaker... both for dousing and storing to keep it in order for easy setting..
I know the need for all lines attached directly to the sail to be outside of all other lines and wires....
the take down is not as much of a concern for me as is getting it rigged so that when it fills with wind, the rigging is reasonably correct, the sail isnt twisted and it doesnt cause damage to crew or gear while trying to get it all corrected...
Re: I need a tutorial video on how to use a symetrical spinn
Centerline....why not race on a boat with a spinnaker for some races. You can learn so much from crewing on race boats. You will also get to go through multiple spinnaker launches and take downs during one race.
Centerline....why not race on a boat with a spinnaker for some races. You can learn so much from crewing on race boats. You will also get to go through multiple spinnaker launches and take downs during one race.
Now this is what winter is for! I call it "Couch Sailing" where I never make mistakes, at least that anyone sees. IMHO, all the comments were good, here are mine. I agree with several of the posts about what type of Spin, if I to choose one type it would be the Aspin. However, our Capri 22 has both types and I look forward to sailing with them. I single hand most of the time and found that two accessories really make life easier with an Aspin. First the APN Tacker and Sock not only make like easier, but also makes for a safer experience. Secondly, don't forget the Turtle Bag to assist in the launch and retrieval, again easier/safer. I suggest watching vids on the topic and you will appreciate what I am saying. As for the standard Spin, both the Turtle Bag & Sock will help a great deal, although I haven't used the Sock yet with a standard Spin, but will this summer. Just to clarify the benefit of the Turtle Bag, its not just a bag to store the sail inside of. One of the main benefit of the Bag, is organization. It like packing a Parachute, you don't want to do it wrong! It keeps the corners of the sail together and the sail folded correctly, so that when you are ready to rig/launch it, you won't have a twisted sail or lines hooked to the wrong corners. It helps avoids mistakes! Of course on a boat as large as Centerline's, a well trained crew will make flying either type of Spin a pleasure.
Re: I need a tutorial video on how to use a symetrical spinn
on launch,
I like to stand at the mast and pull horizonally on spin halyard, pumping it fast, and have someone else tail in cockpit. faster and less friction.
I also double check the pole is locked down and back a bit so it won't go forward, under load, and press against the front stay. if the pole gets away from you it could bring the rig down.
you can also use rubber bands to almost guarantee a clean launch. However, relaunch will be slooooow.
1+ on leaning on someone else's boat.
on launch,
I like to stand at the mast and pull horizonally on spin halyard, pumping it fast, and have someone else tail in cockpit. faster and less friction.
I also double check the pole is locked down and back a bit so it won't go forward, under load, and press against the front stay. if the pole gets away from you it could bring the rig down.
you can also use rubber bands to almost guarantee a clean launch. However, relaunch will be slooooow.
1+ on leaning on someone else's boat.
Re: I need a tutorial video on how to use a symetrical spinn
Who uses a sock on a symmetrical (racing) spinnaker? Never heard of such a thing. If you want to improve your take downs, rig a take down line... it's a lightweight retrieval line attached to a patch sewn onto the center of the sail.... The crew pulls the line and the center of the sail right down into the turtle... forget the sock.
The sock works well for large asymmetrical spinnakers that don't use a pole....
Who uses a sock on a symmetrical (racing) spinnaker? Never heard of such a thing. If you want to improve your take downs, rig a take down line... it's a lightweight retrieval line attached to a patch sewn onto the center of the sail.... The crew pulls the line and the center of the sail right down into the turtle... forget the sock.
The sock works well for large asymmetrical spinnakers that don't use a pole....
Re: I need a tutorial video on how to use a symetrical spinn
Wow. Lots of interesting advice in this thread.
DO NOT band spinnakers. Illegal under RRS, it's pollution, and of no real use on a boat under 45 feet.
Do not use a sock on symmetrical spinnakers!
Spinnaker are not 'folded' in their bags. You 'run the tapes' on any two edges to make sure there are no twists. Then keeping track of the three corners, simply stuff the whole shebang into the bag. It will go up perfectly.
Always (when starting out at the very least) fly a spinnaker with your mainsail up. It allows you to blanket the spin when it is time for it to come down.
Wow. Lots of interesting advice in this thread.
DO NOT band spinnakers. Illegal under RRS, it's pollution, and of no real use on a boat under 45 feet.
Do not use a sock on symmetrical spinnakers!
Spinnaker are not 'folded' in their bags. You 'run the tapes' on any two edges to make sure there are no twists. Then keeping track of the three corners, simply stuff the whole shebang into the bag. It will go up perfectly.
Always (when starting out at the very least) fly a spinnaker with your mainsail up. It allows you to blanket the spin when it is time for it to come down.
Re: I need a tutorial video on how to use a symetrical spinn
OK, I agree that I've never seen a sock on a symmetrical. That doesn't mean it can't be done, or won't work.
I have seen a lot of problems trying to fly a kite. Some were expensive and some caused injuries.
IMHO, attempting to learn how, with 2 crew, on a symmetrical is risky, and is a low probability decision.
And yeah, rubber bands would break and cause pollution.... don't do that unless 3 miles off shore. OTOH, they work pretty good. and have been used for a long time.
I've never ever flown a symmetrical with out a turtle. either.
Again, I would suggest trading it for a Asymmetrical spinnaker. That is doable with 2 aboard... with practice and experience.
I've also seen the line on the center of the kite used on smaller boats, but never on a 34' boat's kite, but it could work too. but I wouldn't try it with 2 aboard.
Good luck!
OK, I agree that I've never seen a sock on a symmetrical. That doesn't mean it can't be done, or won't work.
I have seen a lot of problems trying to fly a kite. Some were expensive and some caused injuries.
IMHO, attempting to learn how, with 2 crew, on a symmetrical is risky, and is a low probability decision.
And yeah, rubber bands would break and cause pollution.... don't do that unless 3 miles off shore. OTOH, they work pretty good. and have been used for a long time.
I've never ever flown a symmetrical with out a turtle. either.
Again, I would suggest trading it for a Asymmetrical spinnaker. That is doable with 2 aboard... with practice and experience.
I've also seen the line on the center of the kite used on smaller boats, but never on a 34' boat's kite, but it could work too. but I wouldn't try it with 2 aboard.
Good luck!
Re: I need a tutorial video on how to use a symetrical spinn
Mr bill,
With respect, you are debating your theoretical option against several people with lots of practical experience.
Socks on symmetrical kites are of no value, and add extra complication and work. A properly launched symmetrical kite will 'hide' behind the main and headsail, laying mostly flat in the lee, the windward edge no farther extended than the pole which is at the forestay. Only when the pole is pulled back does the sail fill. Using a sock does nothing to help here. The same is true in reverse on the takedown.
Also PLEASE do not advocate the use of bands for spinnakers. US sailing and the ISAF have both outlawed them for racing and recommend strongly against their use at any time. There is enough plastic and rubber in the water!
Mr bill,
With respect, you are debating your theoretical option against several people with lots of practical experience.
Socks on symmetrical kites are of no value, and add extra complication and work. A properly launched symmetrical kite will 'hide' behind the main and headsail, laying mostly flat in the lee, the windward edge no farther extended than the pole which is at the forestay. Only when the pole is pulled back does the sail fill. Using a sock does nothing to help here. The same is true in reverse on the takedown.
Also PLEASE do not advocate the use of bands for spinnakers. US sailing and the ISAF have both outlawed them for racing and recommend strongly against their use at any time. There is enough plastic and rubber in the water!
my spinnaker is in a "turtle" bag, although at this time it is not oriented for hoisting, as we just shoved it in after inspecting it...
before i initiated this thread, i didnt even know what the holes and velcro ties were for on the bag. or that it was called a turtle bag....
so now with the turtle and the pole, im wondering if i am wrong in my understanding of whether I have a sym or an Asym... will have to shake it out and measure....
what is the difference in rigging and flying the 2 different spins?
a lot of money went into this boat at one time by a PO for some offshore work and racing (pacific cup & transpac).
since we bought it, and thruout the summer, between working on various projects inside and out, we have sailed it on the main and jib (and motored a LOT), but im still trying to figure out what all the other lines and rigging is for, and how to use them correctly...
at various transient docks we have visited and talking with other "sailors" (some more so than others
), there has been a lot of speculation on how and why it was rigged like it is. once I tell them it was originally set up for offshore racing, they seem to understand better, but still, as we are 125 miles from the ocean on a river, almost all here, like me, have no clue.
but without putting some of the "extra" features into practice, I cant seem to absorb all that ive been told... or how correct the information really is...
but with all the information that has been shared here, i have a lot of ideas, and a lot of reading to do... Thanks everyone...
before i initiated this thread, i didnt even know what the holes and velcro ties were for on the bag. or that it was called a turtle bag....
so now with the turtle and the pole, im wondering if i am wrong in my understanding of whether I have a sym or an Asym... will have to shake it out and measure....
what is the difference in rigging and flying the 2 different spins?
a lot of money went into this boat at one time by a PO for some offshore work and racing (pacific cup & transpac).
since we bought it, and thruout the summer, between working on various projects inside and out, we have sailed it on the main and jib (and motored a LOT), but im still trying to figure out what all the other lines and rigging is for, and how to use them correctly...
at various transient docks we have visited and talking with other "sailors" (some more so than others
), there has been a lot of speculation on how and why it was rigged like it is. once I tell them it was originally set up for offshore racing, they seem to understand better, but still, as we are 125 miles from the ocean on a river, almost all here, like me, have no clue.but without putting some of the "extra" features into practice, I cant seem to absorb all that ive been told... or how correct the information really is
...but with all the information that has been shared here, i have a lot of ideas, and a lot of reading to do... Thanks everyone...
Centerline,
I had my asymmetric spinnaker made for 2 reasons only. I wanted the challenge of learning and I think they look cool as all getout. Once you figure out what you have and have read all you can absorb, take it out with appropriate crew and fly it. You'll make mistakes but you'll learn a lot. Having experienced crew should help. Have fun!
I had my asymmetric spinnaker made for 2 reasons only. I wanted the challenge of learning and I think they look cool as all getout. Once you figure out what you have and have read all you can absorb, take it out with appropriate crew and fly it. You'll make mistakes but you'll learn a lot. Having experienced crew should help. Have fun!
i have no problem trying to rig and fly it at the dock if thats what it takes
.... its getting it rigged correctly and understanding why.... once i get these 2 things figured out, the safety issues will be plain for me to see.... heck, maybe flying it at the dock will become a safety issue, but i will find that out then, i suppose...and crewing on another boat.... thats a great idea that i have thought of also and ive been watching for the opportunity.
but finding someone who needs/wants a crew member on a particular day they plan to fly their spinnaker, when im around and can get away, seems to be more difficult than learning to do it on my own...
I'm sure I can learn a lot more, and still be incompetent and dangerous!
So let me understand better.,
The idea is to launch the kite behind the main, or closer to the mast to cover the sail as you raise it then pull the pole back after its up to fill it? no change in course.
OR, more like,
clip the turtle to the lifeline, then steer the boat downwind to cover the spinnaker launch, and keeping leading edge out of the wind, working guy very slack, then pulling the guy to open the sail? again, no change in course?
I figured you would want to steer the boat to cover, then head up, to fill vs pulling the guy (lazy sheet) ?
FYI:
http://www.teamthunder.org/ThndrBot/x-spin_rigging.jpg
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Re: I need a tutorial video on how to use a symetrical spinn
Mr Bill,
good questions!
First your turn down to your course, or slightly below. The kite is in it's bag on the leeward rail and rigged. When ready, the guy is in the jaw of the pole, and the windward clew is run out to the pole. This is called 'pre-feeding the guy'. The pole often moves a few feet to windward during the pulling of the guy, but it will blow back during the hoist. Here we are in 20 knots.
The kite is quickly hoisted, but it's behind both the main and the jib. Even in the 20 knots, its just wiggles in the back-breeze.
We bring back the pole, and it starts to fill. Furl the jib, and and we're out of there!
Mr Bill,
good questions!
First your turn down to your course, or slightly below. The kite is in it's bag on the leeward rail and rigged. When ready, the guy is in the jaw of the pole, and the windward clew is run out to the pole. This is called 'pre-feeding the guy'. The pole often moves a few feet to windward during the pulling of the guy, but it will blow back during the hoist. Here we are in 20 knots.
The kite is quickly hoisted, but it's behind both the main and the jib. Even in the 20 knots, its just wiggles in the back-breeze.
We bring back the pole, and it starts to fill. Furl the jib, and and we're out of there!
Re: I need a tutorial video on how to use a symetrical spinn
Rigging for asymmetricals is much less complicated than for symmetricals, mainly due to the pole.
On an asym, there is no pole. On a symmetrical, you need a topping lift and downhaul for the pole, which holds it in vertical position. For bigger boats, there may also be a foreguy, which helps hold the pole in fore/aft position, and probably an afterguy as well. On smaller boats, the windward sheet on the spin becomes the guy, and is generally held down to the deck at roughly the shrouds by a twing line. This reverses in a gybe, and the sheet becomes the guy, etc.
On an asym, there are only 4 lines: halyard (of course,) tack line, and 2 sheets. The tack line holds, well, the tack down in front, and is played higher for deeper angles, or tighter for closer angles. Sheets become active or lazy depending on which gybe you're on. Some boats mix it up with a takedown line, which is very popular on smaller dinghies and skiffs, and so pull down and launch the chute in a tunnel or sock built in to the boat. And on a bigger boat with an extendable sprit, there will be additional lines to extend and retract the sprit.
I think this is why asyms are so popular with cruisers. They're just pretty simple to deal with, without having to worry about the spinnaker pole. And, cruisers aren't as concerned with fastest speed to the downwind mark, which on the course ought to be dead down wind, a point of sail that asyms can't get deep enough to achieve.
Rigging for asymmetricals is much less complicated than for symmetricals, mainly due to the pole.
On an asym, there is no pole. On a symmetrical, you need a topping lift and downhaul for the pole, which holds it in vertical position. For bigger boats, there may also be a foreguy, which helps hold the pole in fore/aft position, and probably an afterguy as well. On smaller boats, the windward sheet on the spin becomes the guy, and is generally held down to the deck at roughly the shrouds by a twing line. This reverses in a gybe, and the sheet becomes the guy, etc.
On an asym, there are only 4 lines: halyard (of course,) tack line, and 2 sheets. The tack line holds, well, the tack down in front, and is played higher for deeper angles, or tighter for closer angles. Sheets become active or lazy depending on which gybe you're on. Some boats mix it up with a takedown line, which is very popular on smaller dinghies and skiffs, and so pull down and launch the chute in a tunnel or sock built in to the boat. And on a bigger boat with an extendable sprit, there will be additional lines to extend and retract the sprit.
I think this is why asyms are so popular with cruisers. They're just pretty simple to deal with, without having to worry about the spinnaker pole. And, cruisers aren't as concerned with fastest speed to the downwind mark, which on the course ought to be dead down wind, a point of sail that asyms can't get deep enough to achieve.
Re: I need a tutorial video on how to use a symetrical spinn
I'm a fast typer. Glad it was useful info.
I'm a fast typer. Glad it was useful info.