I have seen many warnings about hose clamps
- Thread starter Ross
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Automotive clamps although stainless
are not 300 series stainless as the marine grade ones are. Even the most corrosion resistant steel alloy will still suffer so it's a good idea to periodically inspect clamps and valves. Both hoses and fuel lines tend to deteriorate from the inside out so don't rely upon their outside appearance. Hoses should be replaced on a time schedule or sooner if they feel "spongy" when squeezed.
are not 300 series stainless as the marine grade ones are. Even the most corrosion resistant steel alloy will still suffer so it's a good idea to periodically inspect clamps and valves. Both hoses and fuel lines tend to deteriorate from the inside out so don't rely upon their outside appearance. Hoses should be replaced on a time schedule or sooner if they feel "spongy" when squeezed.
Automotive clamps although stainless
are not 300 series stainless as the marine grade ones are. Even the most corrosion resistant steel alloy will still suffer so it's a good idea to periodically inspect clamps and valves. Both hoses and fuel lines tend to deteriorate from the inside out so don't rely upon their outside appearance. Hoses should be replaced on a time schedule or sooner if they feel "spongy" when squeezed.
are not 300 series stainless as the marine grade ones are. Even the most corrosion resistant steel alloy will still suffer so it's a good idea to periodically inspect clamps and valves. Both hoses and fuel lines tend to deteriorate from the inside out so don't rely upon their outside appearance. Hoses should be replaced on a time schedule or sooner if they feel "spongy" when squeezed.
No, I think you are correct but what may only
allow a slow leak in calm waters may become a real hazard, real quick in offshore waters. The displacement of a sailboat rising and falling trough even moderate size waves multiplies the pressure of the water flowing through an open through the hull valve. Not only is the force increased but also the frequency and total number of times the force is being applied will be larger. It is the hammering effect that may disloge an unclamped hose. Through the years I have discovered 3 or 4 broken clamps with no ill effects but before going offshore all clamps get checked and if doubtful they get replaced. I use double clamps on all hoses and have never seen a double failure myself.
allow a slow leak in calm waters may become a real hazard, real quick in offshore waters. The displacement of a sailboat rising and falling trough even moderate size waves multiplies the pressure of the water flowing through an open through the hull valve. Not only is the force increased but also the frequency and total number of times the force is being applied will be larger. It is the hammering effect that may disloge an unclamped hose. Through the years I have discovered 3 or 4 broken clamps with no ill effects but before going offshore all clamps get checked and if doubtful they get replaced. I use double clamps on all hoses and have never seen a double failure myself.
No, I think you are correct but what may only
allow a slow leak in calm waters may become a real hazard, real quick in offshore waters. The displacement of a sailboat rising and falling trough even moderate size waves multiplies the pressure of the water flowing through an open through the hull valve. Not only is the force increased but also the frequency and total number of times the force is being applied will be larger. It is the hammering effect that may disloge an unclamped hose. Through the years I have discovered 3 or 4 broken clamps with no ill effects but before going offshore all clamps get checked and if doubtful they get replaced. I use double clamps on all hoses and have never seen a double failure myself.
allow a slow leak in calm waters may become a real hazard, real quick in offshore waters. The displacement of a sailboat rising and falling trough even moderate size waves multiplies the pressure of the water flowing through an open through the hull valve. Not only is the force increased but also the frequency and total number of times the force is being applied will be larger. It is the hammering effect that may disloge an unclamped hose. Through the years I have discovered 3 or 4 broken clamps with no ill effects but before going offshore all clamps get checked and if doubtful they get replaced. I use double clamps on all hoses and have never seen a double failure myself.
The big problem...
The big problem with Ideal type hose clamps is that they rarely, if ever, fail like some would think they should. Ideal type clamps DON'T usually fail with the band breaking as some stereotypically think is a catastrophic failure. The failure of Ideal, or any other clamp that has the slots in the band, is usually in the screw mechanism. Many times from hoses becoming hard and the forces of expansion & contraction I have seen the threads of the tightening screw pop free from the "slots" in the band. When I check Ideal hose clamps I put some pressure on the nut driver. This is by feel so you guys will have to know what that is for yourselves but it's less than the original torque you used to install them in the first place. Many times over the years when I've done this the tightening screw has "stripped". In reality the bolt does not actually strip but that's how it feels through the nut driver. What is actually happening is that the cap, the part that says "Ideal" on it, and barrel that hold the screw in place, to the band, have become stressed, lost strength, and allowed the threads of the screw to be pushed up and out of the "slots" in the band! The above description is a FAILED hose clamp! If your looking for "snapped" clamps as your idea of a catastrophic failure your over thinking it. The more common failure of the screw is much less exciting! this form of failure is one that's often NEVER noticed until it's leaking. Unfortunately when most boaters check clamps they don not do a torque test and only look for a snapped clamp... It is for this reason that I now only used AWAB "smooth band clamps" http://www.awabllc.com/ where the forces of the hard hose are not also working against forcing the threads of the screw up and out of the "slots".. I hope this helps describe hose clamp "failures" a little better...
The big problem with Ideal type hose clamps is that they rarely, if ever, fail like some would think they should. Ideal type clamps DON'T usually fail with the band breaking as some stereotypically think is a catastrophic failure. The failure of Ideal, or any other clamp that has the slots in the band, is usually in the screw mechanism. Many times from hoses becoming hard and the forces of expansion & contraction I have seen the threads of the tightening screw pop free from the "slots" in the band. When I check Ideal hose clamps I put some pressure on the nut driver. This is by feel so you guys will have to know what that is for yourselves but it's less than the original torque you used to install them in the first place. Many times over the years when I've done this the tightening screw has "stripped". In reality the bolt does not actually strip but that's how it feels through the nut driver. What is actually happening is that the cap, the part that says "Ideal" on it, and barrel that hold the screw in place, to the band, have become stressed, lost strength, and allowed the threads of the screw to be pushed up and out of the "slots" in the band! The above description is a FAILED hose clamp! If your looking for "snapped" clamps as your idea of a catastrophic failure your over thinking it. The more common failure of the screw is much less exciting! this form of failure is one that's often NEVER noticed until it's leaking. Unfortunately when most boaters check clamps they don not do a torque test and only look for a snapped clamp... It is for this reason that I now only used AWAB "smooth band clamps" http://www.awabllc.com/ where the forces of the hard hose are not also working against forcing the threads of the screw up and out of the "slots".. I hope this helps describe hose clamp "failures" a little better...
The big problem...
The big problem with Ideal type hose clamps is that they rarely, if ever, fail like some would think they should. Ideal type clamps DON'T usually fail with the band breaking as some stereotypically think is a catastrophic failure. The failure of Ideal, or any other clamp that has the slots in the band, is usually in the screw mechanism. Many times from hoses becoming hard and the forces of expansion & contraction I have seen the threads of the tightening screw pop free from the "slots" in the band. When I check Ideal hose clamps I put some pressure on the nut driver. This is by feel so you guys will have to know what that is for yourselves but it's less than the original torque you used to install them in the first place. Many times over the years when I've done this the tightening screw has "stripped". In reality the bolt does not actually strip but that's how it feels through the nut driver. What is actually happening is that the cap, the part that says "Ideal" on it, and barrel that hold the screw in place, to the band, have become stressed, lost strength, and allowed the threads of the screw to be pushed up and out of the "slots" in the band! The above description is a FAILED hose clamp! If your looking for "snapped" clamps as your idea of a catastrophic failure your over thinking it. The more common failure of the screw is much less exciting! this form of failure is one that's often NEVER noticed until it's leaking. Unfortunately when most boaters check clamps they don not do a torque test and only look for a snapped clamp... It is for this reason that I now only used AWAB "smooth band clamps" http://www.awabllc.com/ where the forces of the hard hose are not also working against forcing the threads of the screw up and out of the "slots".. I hope this helps describe hose clamp "failures" a little better...
The big problem with Ideal type hose clamps is that they rarely, if ever, fail like some would think they should. Ideal type clamps DON'T usually fail with the band breaking as some stereotypically think is a catastrophic failure. The failure of Ideal, or any other clamp that has the slots in the band, is usually in the screw mechanism. Many times from hoses becoming hard and the forces of expansion & contraction I have seen the threads of the tightening screw pop free from the "slots" in the band. When I check Ideal hose clamps I put some pressure on the nut driver. This is by feel so you guys will have to know what that is for yourselves but it's less than the original torque you used to install them in the first place. Many times over the years when I've done this the tightening screw has "stripped". In reality the bolt does not actually strip but that's how it feels through the nut driver. What is actually happening is that the cap, the part that says "Ideal" on it, and barrel that hold the screw in place, to the band, have become stressed, lost strength, and allowed the threads of the screw to be pushed up and out of the "slots" in the band! The above description is a FAILED hose clamp! If your looking for "snapped" clamps as your idea of a catastrophic failure your over thinking it. The more common failure of the screw is much less exciting! this form of failure is one that's often NEVER noticed until it's leaking. Unfortunately when most boaters check clamps they don not do a torque test and only look for a snapped clamp... It is for this reason that I now only used AWAB "smooth band clamps" http://www.awabllc.com/ where the forces of the hard hose are not also working against forcing the threads of the screw up and out of the "slots".. I hope this helps describe hose clamp "failures" a little better...
There is a plumbing devise for making a connection between
waste pipes of differing materials i.e. cast iron and PVC. The common brand name is Fernco there may be other brands. They are a moulded black rubber material. I asked a journeyman plumber once "how tight do you make the hose clamps"? his reply was "Just until it stops leaking." These fittings are approved for use in all of the plumbing codes that I am aware of and they use single hose clamps. I am inclined to think that double clamping hose fittings provides a level of redundancy that precludes an unexpected failure and that periodic inspection and replacement as indicated is all that that is required. More likely the hoses will fail before the clamps. That is the conclusion that I draw from this discussion. Thanks to everyone for joining in. The vernal equinox is only 80 days away. ;D
waste pipes of differing materials i.e. cast iron and PVC. The common brand name is Fernco there may be other brands. They are a moulded black rubber material. I asked a journeyman plumber once "how tight do you make the hose clamps"? his reply was "Just until it stops leaking." These fittings are approved for use in all of the plumbing codes that I am aware of and they use single hose clamps. I am inclined to think that double clamping hose fittings provides a level of redundancy that precludes an unexpected failure and that periodic inspection and replacement as indicated is all that that is required. More likely the hoses will fail before the clamps. That is the conclusion that I draw from this discussion. Thanks to everyone for joining in. The vernal equinox is only 80 days away. ;D
There is a plumbing devise for making a connection between
waste pipes of differing materials i.e. cast iron and PVC. The common brand name is Fernco there may be other brands. They are a moulded black rubber material. I asked a journeyman plumber once "how tight do you make the hose clamps"? his reply was "Just until it stops leaking." These fittings are approved for use in all of the plumbing codes that I am aware of and they use single hose clamps. I am inclined to think that double clamping hose fittings provides a level of redundancy that precludes an unexpected failure and that periodic inspection and replacement as indicated is all that that is required. More likely the hoses will fail before the clamps. That is the conclusion that I draw from this discussion. Thanks to everyone for joining in. The vernal equinox is only 80 days away. ;D
waste pipes of differing materials i.e. cast iron and PVC. The common brand name is Fernco there may be other brands. They are a moulded black rubber material. I asked a journeyman plumber once "how tight do you make the hose clamps"? his reply was "Just until it stops leaking." These fittings are approved for use in all of the plumbing codes that I am aware of and they use single hose clamps. I am inclined to think that double clamping hose fittings provides a level of redundancy that precludes an unexpected failure and that periodic inspection and replacement as indicated is all that that is required. More likely the hoses will fail before the clamps. That is the conclusion that I draw from this discussion. Thanks to everyone for joining in. The vernal equinox is only 80 days away. ;D
But Ross
Ross unfortunately your n of 1 does not make solid scientific data. Real Data! Boat US stats show that 23% of "At The Dock" powerboat sinkings are caused by "Failed Below Waterline Fittings" which included hose clamps, below waterline fittings and melted hoses from over heating. They specifically make no mention of cracked hoses so one must surmise, from the actual hard scientific data, that hose clamp failures are more common than you are insinuating.. This same insurance data was then looked at for vessels under way and the category of "Failed below Waterline Fittings" jumped 1% to 24% of all Boat US sinking insurance claims. Struck a submerged object was the #1 cause while under way at 36% while a "leaking bellows" described as "small shift cable bellows" these are the bellows on IO engines were 44% of all at the dock powerboat sinkings. They don't break out sailboats but both sail and power boats have "below waterline fittings and hose clamps...
Ross unfortunately your n of 1 does not make solid scientific data. Real Data! Boat US stats show that 23% of "At The Dock" powerboat sinkings are caused by "Failed Below Waterline Fittings" which included hose clamps, below waterline fittings and melted hoses from over heating. They specifically make no mention of cracked hoses so one must surmise, from the actual hard scientific data, that hose clamp failures are more common than you are insinuating.. This same insurance data was then looked at for vessels under way and the category of "Failed below Waterline Fittings" jumped 1% to 24% of all Boat US sinking insurance claims. Struck a submerged object was the #1 cause while under way at 36% while a "leaking bellows" described as "small shift cable bellows" these are the bellows on IO engines were 44% of all at the dock powerboat sinkings. They don't break out sailboats but both sail and power boats have "below waterline fittings and hose clamps...
But Ross
Ross unfortunately your n of 1 does not make solid scientific data. Real Data! Boat US stats show that 23% of "At The Dock" powerboat sinkings are caused by "Failed Below Waterline Fittings" which included hose clamps, below waterline fittings and melted hoses from over heating. They specifically make no mention of cracked hoses so one must surmise, from the actual hard scientific data, that hose clamp failures are more common than you are insinuating.. This same insurance data was then looked at for vessels under way and the category of "Failed below Waterline Fittings" jumped 1% to 24% of all Boat US sinking insurance claims. Struck a submerged object was the #1 cause while under way at 36% while a "leaking bellows" described as "small shift cable bellows" these are the bellows on IO engines were 44% of all at the dock powerboat sinkings. They don't break out sailboats but both sail and power boats have "below waterline fittings and hose clamps...
Ross unfortunately your n of 1 does not make solid scientific data. Real Data! Boat US stats show that 23% of "At The Dock" powerboat sinkings are caused by "Failed Below Waterline Fittings" which included hose clamps, below waterline fittings and melted hoses from over heating. They specifically make no mention of cracked hoses so one must surmise, from the actual hard scientific data, that hose clamp failures are more common than you are insinuating.. This same insurance data was then looked at for vessels under way and the category of "Failed below Waterline Fittings" jumped 1% to 24% of all Boat US sinking insurance claims. Struck a submerged object was the #1 cause while under way at 36% while a "leaking bellows" described as "small shift cable bellows" these are the bellows on IO engines were 44% of all at the dock powerboat sinkings. They don't break out sailboats but both sail and power boats have "below waterline fittings and hose clamps...
T-Bolt Band Clamps
T-Bolt band clamps are my favorite clamp. With these you can really ratchet up the pressure. They're especially good on the exhaust hose and head-related hoses which are especially hard to clamp with radiator hose clamps. Link to Clampco Products: http://www.clampco.com/products/t-bolt-std.asp Disclaimer: I don't necessarily use nor endorse their products and the link is provided as a service to show what a T-bolt clamp looks like. By the way, my first two hose leaks were on a brand new boat which had all new hoses and new hose clamps. Must be safe, right? Lesson learned: If the hose is new then re-check the clamp after awhile. Some stuff for Rick: Tower: "Delta 351, you have traffic at 10 o'clock , 6 miles!" >Delta 351: "Give us another hint! We have digital watches!" >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eastern 702 to Tower: By the way, after we lifted off we saw some kind of dead animal on the far end of the runway." >Tower: " Continental 635, cleared for takeoff behind Eastern 702, contact Departure on frequency 124.7. Did you copy that report from Eastern 702?" >Continental 635: "Continental 635, cleared for takeoff, roger; and yes, we copied Eastern... >we've already notified our caterers." Clip re Alaska bush pilots: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaqhTn7xB8E&NR=1
T-Bolt band clamps are my favorite clamp. With these you can really ratchet up the pressure. They're especially good on the exhaust hose and head-related hoses which are especially hard to clamp with radiator hose clamps. Link to Clampco Products: http://www.clampco.com/products/t-bolt-std.asp Disclaimer: I don't necessarily use nor endorse their products and the link is provided as a service to show what a T-bolt clamp looks like. By the way, my first two hose leaks were on a brand new boat which had all new hoses and new hose clamps. Must be safe, right? Lesson learned: If the hose is new then re-check the clamp after awhile. Some stuff for Rick: Tower: "Delta 351, you have traffic at 10 o'clock , 6 miles!" >Delta 351: "Give us another hint! We have digital watches!" >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eastern 702 to Tower: By the way, after we lifted off we saw some kind of dead animal on the far end of the runway." >Tower: " Continental 635, cleared for takeoff behind Eastern 702, contact Departure on frequency 124.7. Did you copy that report from Eastern 702?" >Continental 635: "Continental 635, cleared for takeoff, roger; and yes, we copied Eastern... >we've already notified our caterers." Clip re Alaska bush pilots: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaqhTn7xB8E&NR=1
T-Bolt Band Clamps
T-Bolt band clamps are my favorite clamp. With these you can really ratchet up the pressure. They're especially good on the exhaust hose and head-related hoses which are especially hard to clamp with radiator hose clamps. Link to Clampco Products: http://www.clampco.com/products/t-bolt-std.asp Disclaimer: I don't necessarily use nor endorse their products and the link is provided as a service to show what a T-bolt clamp looks like. By the way, my first two hose leaks were on a brand new boat which had all new hoses and new hose clamps. Must be safe, right? Lesson learned: If the hose is new then re-check the clamp after awhile. Some stuff for Rick: Tower: "Delta 351, you have traffic at 10 o'clock , 6 miles!" >Delta 351: "Give us another hint! We have digital watches!" >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eastern 702 to Tower: By the way, after we lifted off we saw some kind of dead animal on the far end of the runway." >Tower: " Continental 635, cleared for takeoff behind Eastern 702, contact Departure on frequency 124.7. Did you copy that report from Eastern 702?" >Continental 635: "Continental 635, cleared for takeoff, roger; and yes, we copied Eastern... >we've already notified our caterers." Clip re Alaska bush pilots: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaqhTn7xB8E&NR=1
T-Bolt band clamps are my favorite clamp. With these you can really ratchet up the pressure. They're especially good on the exhaust hose and head-related hoses which are especially hard to clamp with radiator hose clamps. Link to Clampco Products: http://www.clampco.com/products/t-bolt-std.asp Disclaimer: I don't necessarily use nor endorse their products and the link is provided as a service to show what a T-bolt clamp looks like. By the way, my first two hose leaks were on a brand new boat which had all new hoses and new hose clamps. Must be safe, right? Lesson learned: If the hose is new then re-check the clamp after awhile. Some stuff for Rick: Tower: "Delta 351, you have traffic at 10 o'clock , 6 miles!" >Delta 351: "Give us another hint! We have digital watches!" >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eastern 702 to Tower: By the way, after we lifted off we saw some kind of dead animal on the far end of the runway." >Tower: " Continental 635, cleared for takeoff behind Eastern 702, contact Departure on frequency 124.7. Did you copy that report from Eastern 702?" >Continental 635: "Continental 635, cleared for takeoff, roger; and yes, we copied Eastern... >we've already notified our caterers." Clip re Alaska bush pilots: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaqhTn7xB8E&NR=1
Mainesail , I concede that but "Below water line fittings "
is a very broad catagory. I doubt that they break it down to specific components. I have not researched the details but my empirical knowledge with hoses and clamps indicates that the hose is more likely to fail than is the clamp. I have never heard of a deep well pump that needed pulling because a clamp failed. I have no doubt that it has happened. Everything that has been made by man has failed at some time and hose clamps are no exception. My conclusion from this discussion is that hose clamps are only one of many components that need equal attention. Neglect any of them at your peril but don't think that if the hose clamps are all good that something else won't jump up and bite. Very good discussion. we need more of them.
is a very broad catagory. I doubt that they break it down to specific components. I have not researched the details but my empirical knowledge with hoses and clamps indicates that the hose is more likely to fail than is the clamp. I have never heard of a deep well pump that needed pulling because a clamp failed. I have no doubt that it has happened. Everything that has been made by man has failed at some time and hose clamps are no exception. My conclusion from this discussion is that hose clamps are only one of many components that need equal attention. Neglect any of them at your peril but don't think that if the hose clamps are all good that something else won't jump up and bite. Very good discussion. we need more of them.
Mainesail , I concede that but "Below water line fittings "
is a very broad catagory. I doubt that they break it down to specific components. I have not researched the details but my empirical knowledge with hoses and clamps indicates that the hose is more likely to fail than is the clamp. I have never heard of a deep well pump that needed pulling because a clamp failed. I have no doubt that it has happened. Everything that has been made by man has failed at some time and hose clamps are no exception. My conclusion from this discussion is that hose clamps are only one of many components that need equal attention. Neglect any of them at your peril but don't think that if the hose clamps are all good that something else won't jump up and bite. Very good discussion. we need more of them.
is a very broad catagory. I doubt that they break it down to specific components. I have not researched the details but my empirical knowledge with hoses and clamps indicates that the hose is more likely to fail than is the clamp. I have never heard of a deep well pump that needed pulling because a clamp failed. I have no doubt that it has happened. Everything that has been made by man has failed at some time and hose clamps are no exception. My conclusion from this discussion is that hose clamps are only one of many components that need equal attention. Neglect any of them at your peril but don't think that if the hose clamps are all good that something else won't jump up and bite. Very good discussion. we need more of them.
- Jan 22, 2008
- 519
one other item that I neglected to mention regardng my offshore leak
Was that the hose was from 30 years ago and a rad hose style, not vinyl like is commonplace nowadays. The story for the repair guy at the hose desk was that rad hoses were never meant to be in a marine environment, which at first seems counterintuitive, but he went on to explain they they have a tendancy to rot as they are not well ventilated on a boat.
Was that the hose was from 30 years ago and a rad hose style, not vinyl like is commonplace nowadays. The story for the repair guy at the hose desk was that rad hoses were never meant to be in a marine environment, which at first seems counterintuitive, but he went on to explain they they have a tendancy to rot as they are not well ventilated on a boat.
- Jan 22, 2008
- 519
one other item that I neglected to mention regardng my offshore leak
Was that the hose was from 30 years ago and a rad hose style, not vinyl like is commonplace nowadays. The story for the repair guy at the hose desk was that rad hoses were never meant to be in a marine environment, which at first seems counterintuitive, but he went on to explain they they have a tendancy to rot as they are not well ventilated on a boat.
Was that the hose was from 30 years ago and a rad hose style, not vinyl like is commonplace nowadays. The story for the repair guy at the hose desk was that rad hoses were never meant to be in a marine environment, which at first seems counterintuitive, but he went on to explain they they have a tendancy to rot as they are not well ventilated on a boat.
Roger, I my life time I have seen hoses on cars fail many times
heater hose, radiator hose, brake line hose. My Volvo is old enough to vote and all of the hoses have been changed at least twice. And they get new clamps at that time. When one hose goes bad they all get changed. ;D
heater hose, radiator hose, brake line hose. My Volvo is old enough to vote and all of the hoses have been changed at least twice. And they get new clamps at that time. When one hose goes bad they all get changed. ;D
Roger, I my life time I have seen hoses on cars fail many times
heater hose, radiator hose, brake line hose. My Volvo is old enough to vote and all of the hoses have been changed at least twice. And they get new clamps at that time. When one hose goes bad they all get changed. ;D
heater hose, radiator hose, brake line hose. My Volvo is old enough to vote and all of the hoses have been changed at least twice. And they get new clamps at that time. When one hose goes bad they all get changed. ;D
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