I have a rigging question

Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I found it yesterday Dave. Not a lot of pictures. Today it is not there. Appears to have been removed from the list of boats for sale.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Thanks.

Turning this into a schooner is going to take a lot time, money, and effort. In terms of cost, even with you doing a lot of the work, I'd expect the cost to run north of $100K. The Naval Architect alone will run about $15K.

Adding a second mast to be a schooner, yawl, or ketch will require significant structural work. It is more complicated than simply sticking a mast step on deck some where. The deck will need substantial reinforcement to support the mast loads. Chain plates will need to be installed along with the running and standing rigging.

Adding ballast will require lifting the floor boards and adding weight, lead, concrete or a combination of both. It also needs to be properly placed so the boat will float on its lines.

Masts are expensive, even if one can be found in a salvage yard.

It appears that the boat has only been primed and not painted. That is not an insignificant expense.

If this is your dream and you have the time and resources to follow the dream, then don't let me dissuade you. As my mother would sometimes advise me, "David, your eyes are bigger than your stomach." Boatyards around the world are filled with abandoned dreams because the dreamer's eyes were bigger than their stomachs.
 
Oct 31, 2020
25
Homemade 52 San fransisco
The likelihood of me taking on the project is small...but if i did I would put substantially smaller sails on it..I was think a main of about 36 foot tall and a mizzen of 28 or so lowering the aspect significantly but maintaining g approx the same sq footage of sail....but I have to keep reminding myself that I'm 71 years old...and not 50 anymore and probably not up to the task
 

PaulK

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Dec 1, 2009
1,223
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
Sold with lien papers? So your $5000 boat lands you with a bill from the marina for $xxx,xxx.xx, since it's been there for 10 years getting built? And then the steel mill invoices, since they thought the "union ironworker" was working on a commercial project for the marina, and let him run up a tab? Are there other liens on the boat? Electricians? Plumbers? Lienholders can literally require a boat to be chained to the dock, with a Marshall's order preventing it from leaving until they are all paid in full. Have you been to the boat? Have you looked behind all the woodwork (not looking like he or his friends were skilled carpenters, btw) to see what is going on with rust between the frames and in the bilges? Most steel boats rust from the inside out, starting with condensation on the inside of the hull. Capta mentioned the need for a hull thickness survey/test. Rust never sleeps.

THEN there are the questions.
1/Why was the boat built underballasted? 2. Why wasn't more ballast added? (Adding rocks or whatever in the bilge is a lot cheaper than cutting down a rig.) 3/Who is the designer? 4. What is the design? 5 Was the design followed? (Apparently not, if it was built underballasted. What other aspects of the boat deviate from the design? 6. How old is it? (The older it is, the more likely there's rust.) 7. Is it insulated? (Insulation can help reduce condensation on the inside of the boat if it is done properly. If not, it can hide rust that is eating through the hull plating.) 8, Is it painted? With what? (Home Depot housepaint is not the same stuff as 2-part polyurethanes. You want the paint to last more than just one season.) How was the paint applied? (Applying paint properly in a steel boat calls for sandblasting the surfaces before applying primer and then topcoats. This keeps the paint from chipping off prematurely.) 9. Are there handholds in the cavernous interior? As you already know, big spaces on a boat are dangerous. The boat can get tossed by a wave and you can be thrown across it. The photos don't show many handholds. 10. Is there adequate ventilation? The photos do not show any air vents, or ports that open. There must be a hatch to get below - are there others? 11. Is there a galley? The photos show something that looks like a stovepipe going through the deck near a companionway. That would not be the best place to put it, as spray, or crew, could end up in the soup pots.Is there an accommodation plan that makes sense? 12. The bobstay is missing. (DON'T fly the foresail without it!!) What other rigging is missing or under spec'd? 13. The mast appears to be stepped in a tabernacle. As with other aspects of the rig, it is suspect.

The questions go on and on. Essentially there are more questions than answers about this boat, which is why it is for sale for perhaps less than its scrap value. It is not worth getting excited enough to run away from this imminent derelict. Just leave it alone.
 
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Jim26m

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Apr 3, 2019
579
Macgregor 26M Mobile AL
The ad has been pulled from craigslist so I'm assuming the boat has been sold...so the whole subject is moot at this point
A 52 foot boat for $5,000 is a tempting thing for the bargain hunter. I hope I've got the spunk it takes to dream that big when I'm 71.

I'm interested in your sailing/boat handling experience, other than working on a fishing boat for 30 years. I'm also curious about your plans, should you acquire a 52 ft boat. Live aboard? Solo sail around the world? Occasional day sailing?

I'm 62, and trailer sail a power-sailer. It suits my needs and is fairly easy to handle. During the recent hurricanes, it was safely moored in my garage. If I kept my boat in a slip, I'd be comfortable going up in size, but probably not over 35-40 ft. So, I'm interested in the thought process that has you looking at this size range.

I'm also interested in what type of network or budget you have to work with. I weld. I have friends in various industrial businesses that do large steel fabrication. I wouldn't have taken on a steel 52 footer with questionable heritage. But, I'm interested in your thought process regarding how you were going to make the necessary modifications to such a large boat.

The guys on this forum are really nice. I have one of the most despised boats in the industry, yet they have been very nice to me. I find that if you give a good bit of information about yourself, budget, capability, and boating knowledge/experience, they are extremely helpful in suggesting possible boat choices. I have seen them talk a couple of folks off the ledge who were tempted to buy huge boat projects, either due to lacking the resources to pull it off, or the fact that the boat was such a bad example that it wasn't worth pursuing for anyone.

Personally, I would make a much different choice if I was going to spend $5,000 on a boat. But, maybe a 52 ft steelie fits for you. I'd really enjoy your thoughts.
 
Oct 31, 2020
25
Homemade 52 San fransisco
Lolol...I've extensive experience with power boats from 16 foot ski boats to 40' commercial salmon trollers up and down the Calif coast...lolol...but my sailing experience is limited to once on a little 18 footer in the harbor at marina del Rey and once on a 35' in eureka harbir...but of course I would take lessons before I ever did anything serioys...its been a life long bucket list item for me to cruise the Puget sound then up the Georgian straights to the princess Louisa inlet...I was up there in 1967 and 1968 and have always wanted to go back....I'm not so much interested in saving as such as I am cheap and not wanting to blow a wad on fuel...so a motorsailer would be more my line and frankly even if I did acquire a sail boat I suspect I'd motor more than sail it....as for taking on such a challenge..I've always been a bit of an adventurer...I've been an actor singer and done stage TV films and worked as an assist camera op in sitcoms...did some outlaw pot growing/gold mining in the 80s..and legal growing in the 2000s...worked as a sgt are arms for the cal st legislature in the 70s......what ever kind if boat I got I would only keep it long enough to fulfill the dream and then turn around and sell it quick to avoid excessive mooring/dock fees...I'd rather sell at a loss then pay dock fees for months/years.....in short I'm cheap..and am looking for a deal...even if I had considered the steelie I'd be doing the work on the cheap myself with used equipment..
 
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Jim26m

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Apr 3, 2019
579
Macgregor 26M Mobile AL
Thanks for the reply. It was totally enlightening and surprising. Don't think I've read anything quite like it since I've been a sailing forum member.
 

Jim26m

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Apr 3, 2019
579
Macgregor 26M Mobile AL
Last dry dock 2000. 20 years in the water... I don't know the waters out there. Down here, you'd have an entire ecosystem growing on the bottom after 20 years.

Are you close enough to go look at it?
 

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,691
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
The steelie isn't available but this looks like alit if boat for the price... Ferro cement Ketch - boats - by owner - marine sale
Are you planning on sailing solo? If so, why do you want such a big boat? Honestly, sailing a boat like that is a LOT of work and you probably would end up motoring the entire way. If you look in the 35 - 40 foot range you may find a boat in better shape for the same money and it sure would be a lot less work and money to fix whatever needs fixing to make it safe.
If you have a bunch of friends or family to take along then sure, go for the big boat.
 
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Jim26m

.
Apr 3, 2019
579
Macgregor 26M Mobile AL
If you are going to sell the boat after your bucket trip, why not buy a smaller boat that's in better shape, actually trip-ready. Even if you buy at a higher price, you're likely to not lose as much in the transaction due to much less work required on the front end.

The boats you're looking at, look like they could take quite a bit of work to get ready. Would hate for you to miss out on your trip due to taking on a massive project.
 
Oct 31, 2020
25
Homemade 52 San fransisco
No I have a couple if friends that would go along...one of them even has experience sailing a 55 footer but he's my age so neither if us are too very likely to be hoisting big sails...that's a young man's job..lolol...but at my age I want a little more comfort than I'd find on a 27 footer...and yeah I'd expect to motor except in good seas and fair wind
 
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Oct 31, 2020
25
Homemade 52 San fransisco
A 52 foot boat for $5,000 is a tempting thing for the bargain hunter. I hope I've got the spunk it takes to dream that big when I'm 71.

I'm interested in your sailing/boat handling experience, other than working on a fishing boat for 30 years. I'm also curious about your plans, should you acquire a 52 ft boat. Live aboard? Solo sail around the world? Occasional day sailing?

I'm 62, and trailer sail a power-sailer. It suits my needs and is fairly easy to handle. During the recent hurricanes, it was safely moored in my garage. If I kept my boat in a slip, I'd be comfortable going up in size, but probably not over 35-40 ft. So, I'm interested in the thought process that has you looking at this size range.

I'm also interested in what type of network or budget you have to work with. I weld. I have friends in various industrial businesses that do large steel fabrication. I wouldn't have taken on a steel 52 footer with questionable heritage. But, I'm interested in your thought process regarding how you were going to make the necessary modifications to such a large boat.

The guys on this forum are really nice. I have one of the most despised boats in the industry, yet they have been very nice to me. I find that if you give a good bit of information about yourself, budget, capability, and boating knowledge/experience, they are extremely helpful in suggesting possible boat choices. I have seen them talk a couple of folks off the ledge who were tempted to buy huge boat projects, either due to lacking the resources to pull it off, or the fact that the boat was such a bad example that it wasn't worth pursuing for anyone.

Personally, I would make a much different choice if I was going to spend $5,000 on a boat. But, maybe a 52 ft steelie fits for you. I'd really enjoy your thoughts.


What kind of boat do you have...and why it so dispised...??
 

Jim26m

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Apr 3, 2019
579
Macgregor 26M Mobile AL
Take a look and get a feel for it. Figure out if it's got a clean title and if there are other expenses involved. If it passes those tests, get a surveyor that knows ferrocement and get it surveyed. You will have to spend some money to make sure the boat is safe, and at least minimally ready for the trip. I know squat about ferrocement boats. A good surveyor will be able to advise you about what you need to do to the boat. Then, you can make an informed decision about buying it.
 

Jim26m

.
Apr 3, 2019
579
Macgregor 26M Mobile AL
I have a Macgregor 26m power sailer. It's water ballasted, lightly rigged, has a PHRF around 270. It trailers like a bass boat, motors at 16 knots, sails at hull speed. It has a lot of room below, but the fit and finish is low-end production. The large interior brings windage, and gives the boat a non-traditional profile. It's great for over-nighting and weekends, but isn't really set up for longer trips from the factory. Most owners customize the boats to make them suit their individual needs. While owners do take them into open water in good weather, they are meant for protected water.

It is an odd boat, built for people that need a motor boat and a sailboat, but don't want (or can't afford) to own both.

As to why it's despised, you'd have to ask someone who despises them. Mine suits me just fine. I suspect the look of it, the large outboard, the light build, all play into it. Probably the most disturbing thing is seeing a sailboat zipping along on a plane at 16 knots, or worse, pulling someone on a tube or skis...:yikes: