I have a rigging question

dlochner · Oct 31, 2020

This is problem is in the realm of a competent Naval Architect. There are ways to calculate the various loads and the ballast.

Frankly, this boat seems on first glance to be a boat of uncertain provenance and one I would avoid.

I'm currently involved in a project restoring and finishing a 65' steel schooner. There are advantages to steel, however there are many limitations, rust and corrosion are at the top of the list.

If you are considering acquiring this boat, be certain to have an ultra sound scan of the hull and have it surveyed by someone who is knowledgeable about steel boat construction.

I believe it was John Harries on Affordable Adventure Cruising who said that no one ever owns a second steel boat. There are reasons for that.

https://hlwmm.org/news.php?id=34

Tom J · Oct 31, 2020

One good thing about a steel boat is that parts of the boat can be repaired, modified or fabricated. If more ballast is needed, a steel beam could be welded to the keel to make a new "keel shoe". Added weight and added protection.

David in Sandusky · Oct 31, 2020

If you have plans for the boat, and of you have any confidence the boat was built to those plans, then you could send them to a designer. I think for a reasonable fee, a good designer could tell you if the boat is salvageable, and what you need to do to end up with a real sailboat. If any of us on this site have the competence to give you any advice (other than run away), we would, as a minimum need those plans. We have had one or two marine designers among us, but I know of none at present.

In today’s market, there are lots of good project boats out there at reasonable prices. IMO, I doubt this is one of them.

Fair winds, and following seas on your search!

Ron20324 · Oct 31, 2020

Rainbowcrystalkitchen04@yahoo said:
I've been looking at a 52' home made steelie...the seller describes it as being made by an ironworker and strongly built but underballasted and therefore "tender"...and suggests that it would be best to remove and sell the current mast/sails and lower the aspect........my crazy thought would be to turn it into a cutter rigged schooner...but I would have no clue how to determine how tall to make a main mast or a mizzen.....or is this too crazy an idea..btw I have no idea what the aspect of the keel is or just how much ballast it does have

Where is Roger when we need him ?

jssailem · Nov 1, 2020

Welcome @Rainbowcrystalkitchen04@yahoo to the forum.
You bring an interesting project to a sailing crowd.
What you propose is to alter a homemade boat of unknown build quality, that the owner says is tender and should have the masts chopped and the sail area reduced.

I would be cautious. @dlochner raises good points about seeking knowledge from a Nautically qualified designer and a marine surveyor that you hire. Beyond the hull strength, I would want to know that the design, without sails, is sound. There have been more than one steel, ferrocement, plastic, or wooden boat home built that was top heavy - tender. This occurred at the design/construction level.

You can add ballast to a steel boat, but it is not just adding ballast, you must have enough displacement in the design. Adding ballast is taking away from what you can add to the boat to function. Nothing worse to add several thousand pounds of ballast to the boat, only to see her sink at the fuel dock as you try to fill the diesel tanks.

Good luck with this adventure. It is for certain an intriguing one and will keep the sailors here interested during the cold winter time while we await the return of spring.

DArcy · Nov 1, 2020

Rainbowcrystalkitchen04@yahoo said:
You are right ofcourse but for a 52 fool steelie for less than 5000 it's an interesting deal...lol

That is a very appealing price but you should ask why it is going so cheap. It sounds like you have some big ideas for the boat which will not be cheap to implement. You may be surprised how affordable the consultation of a naval architect or experienced yacht designer can be. Ask Robert Perry for a quote for consultation for what you are considering. You would be hard pressed to find anyone more knowledgeable but also straight forward and honest.

Robert H. Perry Yacht Designers

capta · Nov 1, 2020

I would have any steel boat I was looking at, at any price, audio gauged to determine the thickness of the steel. On steel boats a few coats of paint can cover up a multitude of serious problems.
As for as turning it into a schooner (there is no such thing as a cutter rigged anything except a cutter, as the number of headsails does not determine any boat's classification), that would require a marine architect as schooners usually have more buoyancy aft to carry the center of effort and the power of the main, which is much further aft.

dlochner · Nov 1, 2020

Another NA is Jami Buckley of Buckley Yacht Design. He's currently working on refitting 2 65' steel boats, one a schooner and one a brigantine. BYD has offices in Hamilton, Ontario and the UK.

PaulK · Nov 1, 2020

Maybe you could go trolling in your new boat?

dlochner · Nov 1, 2020

Rainbowcrystalkitchen04@yahoo said:
It almost sounds like you're suggesting my question is insincere and that I'm trolling this group....a suggestion which would be quite insulting....and get you reported to the group administrator

@Rainbowcrystalkitchen04@yahoo You are new here and presumably new to sailing forums.

Hardly a week goes by without someone with little experience asking a question similar to yours. Sometimes they are dreamers, sometimes naive, and sometimes just looking to stir up trouble. This happens on every sailing forum. As a result we, the regulars, are often a bit skeptical while trying to be helpful.

We also get many people who come online, ask a vague unanswerable question and then don't return for days, weeks or ever to see the answers or the comments. SBO is one of the more welcoming sailing forums, however, we do get a bit gun shy, why spend time and effort helping someone who only seems to want others to support a decision already made, especially if it might be a decision the OP will regret shortly.

Making a threat to "get you reported to the group administrator" is not the best way to win friends on what is one of the friendliest sailing forums on the net.

PaulK · Nov 1, 2020

A schooner can have two, three, or more foresails. There have also been schooners with as many as five masts. Is there a link to or a picture of this 52' steelie?

dlochner · Nov 2, 2020

The link is for a email to the seller, not the listing. I searched the SF Bay areas CL and I couldn't find the listing.

I have a rigging question

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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