I Finally Know Better...

[Jtcf78911]

Hi gents.

My 1985 O'Day 28 off the hard and temporarily on a slip before excursion to the mooring...and bilge pump (basic Rule 2000 only a year old) suddenly acting very odd, namely water spewing out both sides around the little red base snap-on clips, and of course nothing making its way out the hose. Did a little research and initially thought I had possibly mis-wired (reverse polarity - not getting full power or possibly reversed rotation in pump - is that really possible?), and while performing a little rewiring experimentation, of all things I noticed to my left two little fountains of water shooting up from the hose - two nice little cracks - how could this be? Questions as follows:

1. Might these holes be the real problem with my bilge pump? Needed water pressure escaping? It's not like they are gushers...
2. The hose actually looks relatively easy to replace, but somehow I've finally learned to never think in such terms when it comes to boat repairs...I Finally Know Better. Any tricks I should be aware of when it comes to snaking the new hose (other than becoming a contortionist)?
3. Finally, assume I'm buying new hose but possibly not the two end-hose connectors I see on my current hose. Where do those come from, and how are they attached?
4. Novice question - one of the attachment holes for connecting the bilge base has gotten too big for use - not sure how. Should I just fill it with Epoxy? Any rules about drilling new holes into the bilge bottom? Seems counter-intuitive to be drilling holes in a bilge.

All guidance appreciated.

Happy and Safe Sailing - Tom O'Day 28

 

[dlochner]

3. Finally, assume I'm buying new hose but possibly not the two end-hose connectors I see on my current hose. Where do those come from, and how are they attached?

Do you have corrugated hose? If so, you don't want that, you want smooth bore hose. The corrugations in hose add turbulence and reduce the output.

4. Novice question - one of the attachment holes for connecting the bilge base has gotten too big for use - not sure how. Should I just fill it with Epoxy? Any rules about drilling new holes into the bilge bottom? Seems counter-intuitive to be drilling holes in a bilge.

This is one of the very few things where 5200 may be the best choice. Clean and fill the holes with epoxy then glue a mounting plate on to the hull mount the pump base to the mounting plate.

 

[Jtcf78911]

Tx. Yes, corrugated hose and it’s going for sure. As an experiment I actually cleaned the two hole spots with acetone and then smothered them with goop from a tube that said it was 5200. I don’t know much about 5200 but assume it’s very water tolerant.

 

[capta]

5200 is an adhesive, not a sealant. It is a tremendous strong adhesive and can be nearly impossible to remove. It is not recommended for anything which one might one day wish to remove or work on, such as hatches, stanchions or windows/ports.
As for the Rule pump, those holes in the sides are where the latches connect the base to the pump. Most likely, the pump is not properly set in the base and the pump can't function properly that way.

 

[Jtcf78911]

Thanks Capta. I’ll take a closer look at the base...

 

[tomgrigsby]

The pump is DC, so if you reverse polarity it will run backwards. You'll get fountains from cracks because of the water pressure trying to move water up the hose. The loss of pressure from the fountains means you'll move less water overboard.

 

[capta]

The pump is DC, so if you reverse polarity it will run backwards. You'll get fountains from cracks because of the water pressure trying to move water up the hose. The loss of pressure from the fountains means you'll move less water overboard.

A submersible pump like a Rule will not move water at all, if it is wired backwards.

 

[Will Gilmore]

A submersible pump like a Rule will not move water at all, if it is wired backwards.

Is that always true for submersible pumps? Because the ones I've seen move water by centrifuge and it doesn't seem like it would make any difference which direction the impeller is turning. The flow is outward from center either way.
Or
Does it just not turn?

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[capta]

Is that always true for submersible pumps? Because the ones I've seen move water by centrifuge and it doesn't seem like it would make any difference which direction the impeller is turning. The flow is outward from center either way.
Or
Does it just not turn?

- Will (Dragonfly)

If you look at the impeller of a centrifugal pump the vanes are curved and do not contact the housing. They just throw the water out. That is why there is no power to those pumps to over ride a check valve or an air lock, unlike a flexible impeller pump.

 

[Jtcf78911]

Yep. Stupid, but the electrical part has me all wigged out. I’ve actually flipped the negative and positive lines and the thing still runs. I assumed I would get a big spark and blow out my panel. OK, maybe fuses. Today I swapped out the 20 foot bilge hose and oh my god was that fun. Fitting into grimy places(barely) where no human should venture. I’m really hoping the new hose will “fix” my pump!! Unlikely...but stranger things have happened...

 

[Jtcf78911]

And I would confess a couple of my wire ends had very odd, greenish tones... I cut the green stuff down to what looked like better wire. Maybe I’m just not getting enough juice - even if correctly wired. Just for the fun of it I will check to see which way my blades are turning. Appreciate the feedback guys. I’m a newbie sailor without a whole lot of “Mr. Fix It” intuition - without a choice getting better but still quite a ways to go. This is part of the enjoyment, right?

 

[Jtcf78911]

I have met the enemy, and he, is me. After installing a new 20 foot bilge hose, and the corresponding thru-hull which literally fell apart as I applied the new hose, and having stripped all bilge pump wiring and rewired, and having dropped three buckets of water into the bilge, I was of course certain of success. And of course I was disappointed. After two days of varied fixes I had almost given up and was ready to buy a new bilge pump. But for some reason I thought, I took this bilge pump apart to clean off oil and such, and I put it back together. Was it really possible that I could’ve put it back together incorrectly - the only piece being a cover plate. My compliments to the design folks at Rule for creating a design that would permit a perfectly viable reinstall of the cover plate in a reverse position. My bilge Water has no where to escape to - except out the sides - that big clue staring me right in the face. Flip that plate around and holy cow she works like a charm. Only upside was that I did stumble into a bilge hose and thru-hull that were in bad shape and in need of replacement. I’ll keep living and learning and keeping a closer eye on the enemy at hand - me!

 

[dlochner]

Only upside was that I did stumble into a bilge hose and thru-hull that were in bad shape and in need of replacement. I’ll keep living and learning and keeping a closer eye on the enemy at hand - me!

Been there done that! Write it off as another skill building opportunity.

 

[Jtcf78911]

And that it certainly was - partly just a matter of starting my problem solving at step 2 (reinstall of unit) and not step 1 (my pulling and cleaning the unit). In 20-20 it seems an obvious oversight... The hose, thru-hull and wiring goose chases, though necessary, took me far off the solution path. Tx. Tom O’Day 28.

 

[All U Get]

I've become a big fan of taking pictures before I take stuff apart, especially wires. Then it usually fits back together with minimal leftover parts.

 

[kloudie1]

Yup.. Cell phone magic pictures to "remember" how stuff goes back together..
Tom, glad ya got the pump working !

 

[jibes138]

Make sure you have a loop in the bilge hose you installed so following seas don't flow into your bilge. Also make sure you use adhesive lined heat shrink crimp connectors for your electrical connections. That green stuff on your wires is bad and it will creep up the wire inside the cover. In a wet environment it will fail quickly. I also put a second adhesive lined heat shrink tubing over the heat shrink connectors as added insurance.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Yup.. Cell phone magic pictures to "remember" how stuff goes back together..
Tom, glad ya got the pump working !

It is interesting how much magic there is around mechanics. The sudden appearance of extra parts is always a surprising form of magic when reassembling something. I own magic screwdrivers. For some inexplicable "magic" reason, whenever I go to get a phillips-head screwdriver, they have all magically changed to slot-heads. If I want a slot-head screwdriver, all I can find are phillips.
What? You don't believe in magic? Go out to your shop or garage or wherever you do your mechanics work and turn the radio on. Magically, they know and will just be starting a long segment of commercials, not music or commentary; you won't be catching the end or even the middle, but the beginning of about 8 minutes of commercials, right off the bat. MAGIC!

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Jtcf78911]

I know I had taken photos but somehow they were misplaced on their elevation to a cloud. Most challenging part of new hose install was making sure that loop was in place - the below deck transom area is a challenge to work in. All set on the heat shrink heat connectors. For a bit more fun I may fit the ends with liquid electric tape.

Guys - appreciate your support of this 60 year old sailing newbie! My wife thinks I’ve gone off a deep end, though likely preferable to chasing younger women. Best. Tom O’Day 28.

 

[All U Get]

Wait 'till she finds out there's shops and restaurants at every harbor, she'll be aboard every trip.