I fear I have a cracked shallow draft keel

[hp18carr]

I made a mistake and I'm hopeing its not a big and costly one. Not being accustomed to really hard freezing weather, I over looked double checking my bige. Sure enough when I checked it today a few incies of water was frozen along the bottom of the bige. later in the day I noted water starting to appear running slowly out from under the stern of my shallow draft keel.

My fear is that the frozen ice has cracked a part of my shallow draft keel. Not knowing much about fiberglassing how bad can this be. I'm sure I'll pay someone who knows fiberglassing to make the needed repairs to play it safe. Any advice in this area would be well recieved.


Terrence
22' Oday 1973
(Old Yellow for now)

 

[centerline]

mark the areas where you see the water seeping from it...when grinding into it, you will know where to start....

 

[hp18carr]

Thanks for the information on how to get started... I want to do this right. It may take me sometime to get to it, this is a project sailboat and I still need to workout a plan to get it off the trailer in the back yard. If anyone out there has done this to a 22' oday I would love to see a couple of photos of how it was done. Thanks again.

Terrence
22' Oday 1973
(Old yellow for now)

 

[Brian S]

Terrence, do a search for Trinkka, and look at the photo albums attached to his profile. I'm pretty sure Joe had put pictures of jacking and blocking his 222 off of the trailer.

Brian

 

[Brian S]

Yup, here you go, Terrence: Joe's album: http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/album.php?albumid=2691

And another thread discussing getting a boat from stands to a trailer. Same thing. http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=152201

 

[hp18carr]

Brian

Thanks for telling me about the oday 222 post. I'm eager to get my 22' off the trailer to see just how extensive tne damage maybe, again thank you.

Terrence
Oday 22' 1973
(Old yellow for now)

 

[Brian S]

Terrence, where are you located, Wilmington, NC, or Wilmington, DE? Or, er, some other Wilmington...

Brian

 

[hp18carr]

Brian

I should learn to be more observant, if I had I would not be looking at a keel repair. Wilmington N.C. is where this old 22' Oday resides. Living in the good old south the hard freeze of a couple of days past caught me off guard. I've made sure all the water is now out of there seeing a couple more days of hard freezing is on the horizon. Sadly the damage is done and a lesson learned... just need to keep moving forward. Oh by the way is it safe to add a little antifreeze during the winter to help keep thingd from freezing up?

Terrence
Wilmington N.C.
22' Oday 1973
(Old Yellow for now)

 

[Brian S]

I think you could put anti-freeze in if you needed to, but probably better to get all the water out at haul-out time, before you tarp the boat for the winter. Then you don't need to worry about it. Remember, anti-freeze concentration determines expansion amount of liquid. I was reading on MaineSail's forum about guys that put AF into the raw water system until they see pink, then quit without testing. And wind up with cracked items over winter. Maine's point was, if you have a 2 gallon system, buy 8 gallons of antifreeze to make sure it's not diluted - cheap insurance! So, just taking and pouring in is rather unscientific. On the other hand, a 22 has a shoal keel, so it shouldn't be that hard to sponge out the sump. I know my 192 isn't that hard, though it is dry. The most water I've had in it over the past season was when I brought a soft-side cooler instead of the hard plastic, and the soft-side got condensation all over it and leaked down into the bilge. Of course, that happened soon after launch, so I was paranoid of a hull leak for a week or so, even though I kept telling myself it must have been the cooler…

Note that I tarp my boat for the winter. She's wrapped up like a burrito, and not a speck of snow on the tarp - it all slides off. I've got the tarp tight and tied down everywhere so it can't sag. If you're getting deck fitting leaks, you really ought to address them before you start having trouble with core damage. You'll probably need to remove anything that goes through the deck, pot the hole with epoxy, and then reinstall. I prefer butyl tape for re-bedding. Here is how to pot the deck penetrations: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck and here is how to use the butyl tape, which you can also buy from Maine. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware

 

[hp18carr]

Brian

What I'm working with is a 100% project sailboat, others may have passed it by but it came with trailer/motor and a full set of sails. The trailer is as old as the sailboat, but it did get me home. It too will need a good bit of work... fun times ahead as I stumble along.

Terrence
Wilmington N.C.
22' Oday 1973
(Old yellow for now)

 

[Brian S]

Bless you, Terrence.

I've had a couple people from my club ask if I would do work on their boat (for pay.) But after having 4 boats in 3 years, and doing a lot of fix up work on them, I just don't want to be doing a whole lot of restoration work. That being said, I currently have a wood GP14 waiting for significant restoration (it's all torn apart), a Whaler Harpoon 4.6 which I have done major work and only needs a new rub rail, but I'm planning to sell it this spring, and my current O'day which is in pretty good shape with small projects. But she's all functional and my main sailer now. There is a similar 192 for sale at our lake, and I went to look at her because I could, and all I saw was more work work work in order to get her up to my standards. I have to say that the second half of last season was nice - jump on the boat and go sailing.

But this season I have to re-polish my cockpit area, replace the fixed windows, and re-route the spinnaker halyard, and I should be good to go! Oh, wait, I still need to rebuild the rudder headstock. That's in progress…

But it's my sweetie, and I don't mind projects. I just have no interest in a project boat

I went up and visited yesterday, and went snowshoeing around, and I made sure to stop by and pat her side and tell her I miss her and she's my sweetie. Dang, I ain't right...

 

[ebsail]

Possible cracked keel

I'm not familiar with the 22 but if it has a cockpit drain exiting the stern, then the water on the keel may actuallly be dribbling out of the cockpit drain, down the transom and onto the keel, and then off the low point on the keel.
This actually happened to me on my 25 and gave me heart failure for a couple of minutes. But there was no actual problem

 

[hp18carr]

ebsail

I would be very pleasantly surprised if this turns out to be the case, for I did take a fairly close look at it when it was first noted. Its back up into the 30's today I'll check again to see if any water is finding its way to the keel by the path you spoke of. Even so the sailboat is coming off the trailer leak or no leak there is plenty of other work to be done... and peace of mind does the heart good.

Terrence
Wilmington N.C.
22' Oday 1973
(Old Yellow for now)

 

[AWalker]

Why does it need to come off the trailer to work on it?

 

[Golden Road]

Terrence - I think you are over worrying on this. Water gets trapped in these keels as a normal thing, whether salt or fresh. My 23 O'Day (1978) drained water out one of the centerboard plate screw holes for several days after I removed the centerboard, and the boat had not been in the water for at least 5 years and stored outside in CT. Lots, I mean like 18"(!), of fresh water had leaked in and frozen in the bilge too. This fall when I pulled the boat I removed just that screw again, and water came out (salt). So ... basically I see no harm. I'm not leaking, the boat is dry, but somewhere there is a cavity that is filling with water, not a lot, like a maybe a quart. You'll know you have a problem if when the boat launched, there is water leaking from the keel area. Until then, I say, don't worry.

 

[hp18carr]

Thanks for all the support guys... perhaps I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill. As far as why I need it off the trailer, the trailer itself needs a bit of work as well and as you can see (I hope) in this as found photo the keel itself is 75% out of view the way the trailer has been setup.



Thanks Again
Terrence
Wilmington N.C.
22' Oday 1973
(Old Yellow for now)

 

[hotrodderjim]

I bought a few gallons of "water system anti freeze from Walmart & poured it into my bilge. Its been super cold up here (RI) this winter & it has not frozen yet.
I do think though that when water freezes in places like a keel it will expand up & not put too much pressure on the side of the keel.
HRJ

 

[Ward H]

A couple of weeks ago I found my normally dry bilge has 3" or so of water in it and frozen solid. The cockpit was empty of snow but there was a plug of ice in the drain. I figured that the snow melt found various points of entry normal rain would not find.
I think (hope) the bilge is shallow enough the ice will not do any damage. Since then we have had rain and more snow. I'm worried but figure any damage is done.
I will go down next weekend after we have had several days in the 50s and get it all cleaned up and dry.

 

[Indysailor]

A couple of weeks ago I found my normally dry bilge has 3" or so of water in it and frozen solid. The cockpit was empty of snow but there was a plug of ice in the drain. I figured that the snow melt found various points of entry normal rain would not find. I think (hope) the bilge is shallow enough the ice will not do any damage. Since then we have had rain and more snow. I'm worried but figure any damage is done. I will go down next weekend after we have had several days in the 50s and get it all cleaned up and dry.

I get water in mine when it snows if the boat is not covered. On mine I believe water makes it's way through the cockpit locker, overflowing the gutters around the lid.