I Don;t Know Squat About Sails

[ruidh]

But I think I need new ones. My sails look like originals on my '71 O'Day 23. The furler is an ancient model which I really want to replace with a CDI roller-furler and I'll need a new sail there. The furler I have is useless for reefing. I think I have a 150% genoa. How do I verify that? Measure the foot and compare to the distance between the headstay and the mast?

I think I need a new main as well. Mine has no reefing points. Instead, I have this goofy roller reefing system where I'm supposed to pull the boom out on the gooseneck and roll the main around the boom. I've never actually used it, but everyone tells me I'd be unsatisifed with that as well. How many reefing points should I be looking at for simple cruising? Do I need to add any hardware to my boom?

Vendors? Any recommendations?

 

[Rascal]

Sails for Your O'Day 23

Hey Buddy, Maybe I can give a hint about your sails. Rolling the main, on the boom, for reefing ? Eeeeee !!! I've never heard of that one. But, if you're in conditions where you need to reef, I'd really hate to try to do it that way ....... sounds like a good way to get knocked right off the boat ! I have 2 sets of reefing points on my main sails and have never used them. So, unless you on a really big lake, out in rough weather alot, on on the ocean, I wouldn't really worry about it. If your sails don't have any holes or tears, and aren't stretched out too bad, go with them for a few more years. They can get pretty pricy to replace. But I'm a North Sail fan, so you could check with them. And your jib, head sail, or whatever ......... if you pull it out and it comes way past the mast, and looks as big, or bigger, than the main, it is probably a 155%. Measure it, then go one one of the sail maker web sites, and compare the measurements. Then you can see the costs of replacing them also, and decide if thats what you want to do. Hey, I have a '83 O'Day 23 ...... love her to death !! Feel free to E Mail me direct at rfb2596@sbcglobal.net if you wish and I help, where I can. Take care, Bob Burns=Rascal

 

[sailorkev]

New sails

Hello. I don't have a tremendous amount of experience yet, but I have picked up some knowledge that may be of use to you. First, to verify the sze of your genoa, you've got to blow the dust off of your trigonometry skills. Measure the area of your headsail. The formula is .5ba, where b=the length of the base of the triangle (you can se the length of the foot) and a=altitude (use mast height minus the gap between the main deck and the foot, IF you have a masthead style rig. If you have a fractional rig, get out the measuring tape!). Then do the same formula to figure the area of the sail if it only went back as far as the mast. Compare the two, and if you have 50% more area on your actual jib than the theoretical jib, then you have a 150 genoa. Also, make sure you are aware that there is a difference between a roller REEFING system, and a roller FURLING system. Most are roller furling type. As fas as your main goes, I would think that two would be plenty for a 23 foot boat. My Catalina 27 has two. Even one reef point might be adequate. I apoligize for being long winded, but I hope this helps!

 

[Steve]

Just ran a quick check

with the chandlery on this site and the sail warehouse site. These are approximates. A 110% headsail, mainsail and cdi furler for this boat on this site starts at $806 - $640 - $388 without extras and freight. The sail warehouse is comparable with a 135% headsail, main and cdi furler at $695 - $525 - $385 without extras and freight. Ballpark figures but at least something to work from.

 

[ruidh]

Getting Prices

I got a quote from Doyle -- 140% genoa $889, main w/1 reef $958 total $1,847. About what I figured. I didn't ask for a price on the CDI. I'll buy that from my rigger.

I need to look into those other sources.

 

[ruidh]

Calculating genoa

"First, to verify the sze of your genoa, you've got to blow the dust off of your trigonometry skills. Measure the area of your headsail..."

Can't you just do this by measuring the foot? the length of the leech is the same, so the ratios of the areas reduces to the ratio of the feet (foots?)

 

[Kris]

Sails

I have Rolly Tasker sails, the same as The Sail Warehouse. I think they are good for cruising. If you can get to a Boat Show they run specials on the big name brands.
I have a C D I with 130% headsail and a main with one reef point. I sail a Capri 22. If your boat is a 1971 you may want to see if the chain plates and standing rigging has been replaced. So you do not lose your new sails.

 

[Mike]

New sails for a 23

I bought new sails for my 23 a few years ago. They are very expensive relative to the cost of the boat itself, but I really notice the difference. You can buy your sails over the internet and save some money; the trade off is that your sails will be made overseas, and you don't have a lot of recourse if things go wrong. If you do go that route, choose your vendor carefully. I went with a local sailmaker; I wound up spending probably almost $1000 more than going through the internet, but I would do it again. The sailmaker came to my boat, reviewed the placement of winches, blocks, rigging, and measured himself. When the sails were done, he came to my boat, installed them, and we went for a sail so he could show me the best way to adjust them. He was a little late in producing the sails, but it was only a local phone call for me to check up on him and find out where they were. I also bought my CDI furler directly from him. He matched the internet price, put it together for me and was available by phone for help when I installed the system on my boat. Try that with a Hong Kong loft. Way worth the extra cash for me.

The sails themselves: when comparing prices, make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Find out the weight of the cloth to be used, how many sets of reef points (you only need one on the Oday 23) are included; logos, sail numbers, etc. are not always included in the price. Btw, if you don't have a jiffy or slab reefing system on your boom now, you will have to install one of those too. Your sailmaker should be apprised of the specfic system you have so he can incorporate it into the new sail. On the genny, you will have to know what brand and model of furler you will have so that the sailmaker will know what size tape to use. Make sure your sailmaker knows you want to be able to reef the genny; good sailmakers will cut and shape the genny to be useable at less than full size. While you are at it, you should price a new mainsail cover at the same time you are buying the sail; you can often get a good deal if you order them together. Don't count on your old sail cover fitting over the new sail. Even though my new and old mainsails were almost exactly the same size, my old sail cover didn't come close to fitting over my new sail.

 

[David]

Local Sailmaker

If you can find a local sailmaker, you will be way ahead, since a good one will visit your boat and teach you what you need to know as well as meeting market prices from others. They continue this support through the life of the sail, answering questions about rigging, tuning, and how to sail in different conditions. They also inspect and mend our sails at reasonable prices whil storing them for free over the winter.

In my experience, this advice and support is worth much more than any price differential I have seen between different lofts. And when I chose our sailmaker, he met the lowest price quoted by his competitors in the Cleveland area.

David
Lady Lillie
'77 h27

 

[Gary]

How to calculate genoa

To calculate the Percent genoa:
The percentage is actually calculated from the "J" measurement of your boat and the "LP" of the sail. The J is the distance from the base of your mast to the forestay. The LP is measured as teh lenght of a line perpendicular to the luff of your genoa to the clew. a 100% sail is one in which the J and LP are the same. Pecent=LP/J. So if your J is 10 feet, a 150% jib would have an LP of 15 feet.

 

[Paul J. Rusyniak]

Gary, a question from someone who's not the

sharpest tool in the box.

Using your formula for a 100% fore sail, would the fore stay have to be perpendicular to the deck and/or parallel to the mast?

Or, does the very definition of "genoa" presume the sail will be more than 100%?

Thanks,
Paul

 

[Ray T]

Roller reefing

I had a 1973 Oday 23 with same reefing system you described. The boom would move back from the gooseneck and you were suposed to rotate the boom rolling the main to the desired reefing point. The only time I used it the boom came loose at the gooseneck letting the sail unfurl popping all the sail slugs off the sail, they were plastic. after replacing the slugs I went to jiffy reefing. You sure can have some funny things happen when you are new to the sport. Ray T

 

[Alan]

Gary is correct

The genoa percent is the ratio of LP divided by J. LP is "Luff Perpendicular", J is the distance on deck from the front of the mast to the headstay. To find the LP draw a line through the clew of the sail that is perpendicular (at right angles) to the luff. This distance is the LP. If your LP equals the J the the sail is a 100% and will slightly overlap the mast. All 100% headsails are overlapping by definition.