I am.... OUT!
- Thread starter cb32863
- Start date
Let's not go down this path. It takes all of us sharing ideas and solutions to keep these 30 or 40 year old boats going. At the age of these boats it's how well you maintain your boat not it's brand.
Let's leave the trash talk to Chevy VS ford pick-up trucks and Minnesota's lack of a professional football team. P.S. I heard that the Bears actually managed to win a game. Oh , it was Minnesota. That hardly counts.
This will be my only response to anything like this in this thread. I did not do any trash talking, you did. You even pushed it out to football which, is well, juvenile. As I said, the O'Day is not the kind of boat that fits the kind of sailing I want to do or am doing. If you took offense well, you are the only one and you should HTFU. Lighten up.... get over yourself... and enjoy your boat.
Good point well taken . I was in the wrong. I apologize....
but since I got us off track , lets head down that path a bit further....
First off, I need to explain to anyone not familiar with the Apostle islands. It's in northern Wisconsin much closer to the major population centers of Minnesota than Wisconsin's major cities in the south. Prior to cable, this area received broadcasts from Duluth Minnesota and therefore many Wisconsinites grew up Watching the Vikings in the glory days of the Carl Eller, Allen Page, Fran Tarkenton and led astray.
The area is now hotbed of friction between the clubs. Good natured fun for the most part but a bit one sided.
So since we have nothing to do now that Winter is setting in, here are some tidbits others may not know of.
The Vikings actually have a "The Vikings Suck " Facebook page. No, not Packer fans, posted by the Viking's own fans. https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Vikings-suck/132247066787032
Here are a few of the cleaner Jokes from a page dedicated to Vikings jokes from the Total Packer Website. There are 18 separate websites dedicated solely to Viking jokes.
Q: Four Vikings are in a car. Who’s driving?
A: The police.
Q: What do you call a Viking with a Super Bowl ring?
A: A thief.
Q: Why doesn't St. Paul have a professional football team?
A: Because then Minneapolis would want one.
Q: How many Vikings does it take to win the Super Bowl?
A: Nobody Knows!
This is hilarious but no joke. A professional football player (guess what team he was on) picked up a fumble and ran the wrong way (66 yards)to his own end zone scoring a safety for the opposing team. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Marshall_(American_football)
I have watched countless elementary school aged flag football games and not ever seen that duplicated.
And many ask why we make fun of them.
But this is a sailing forum and there is no place for picking on the less fortunate.... Moderator.. It won't happen again.....
Well OK. Now that we've gotten to the 'pick on them when the're down' point.... ;^)
So you're in the Apostles too. Cool. Let's talk about stuff we can control, unlike smacking about pro football.
Here's our BENETEAU's results from racing in the Apostles Island this year...
One boat, one year. 2 series wins, a second in another, and 4th overall in the around the islands race. Numerous individual race wins.
Of course there are some O'DAYs racing, here's a picture of the hardware they ALL have EVER won....
Hmm.
PS - If you think you can improve on that and want to have a go at Bayfield Race week next year, I'll get you an entry form! I'm very serious about that!
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Hey, now, I don't think any O'day owner should take it personally that another O'day owner has evolved in his sailing and has decided to buy a different boat that matches that sailing style.
I mean, should other Boston Whaler Harpoon 4.6 owners get ticked off that I bought the O'day 192 because I finally got a boat I could sleep on? Well, maybe, but they only made 150 or so Harpoon 6.2s, and they are harder to come by than the 192. And I like the looks of the 192 better.
Ok, but that's not the point. When did O'day ever build a boat known to be a good racer? There's nothing wrong with being the family station wagon. In fact, I'm still ticked off that car builders (and the American public, I suppose) have completely abandoned station wagons in favor of SUVs.
Wait, what are we arguing about?
I mean, should other Boston Whaler Harpoon 4.6 owners get ticked off that I bought the O'day 192 because I finally got a boat I could sleep on? Well, maybe, but they only made 150 or so Harpoon 6.2s, and they are harder to come by than the 192. And I like the looks of the 192 better.
Ok, but that's not the point. When did O'day ever build a boat known to be a good racer? There's nothing wrong with being the family station wagon. In fact, I'm still ticked off that car builders (and the American public, I suppose) have completely abandoned station wagons in favor of SUVs.
Wait, what are we arguing about?
Brian,
I like the way you think. Plus you like Harpoons and station wagons.
And you are right. I've owned 8 sailboats, of 4 brands. I like all sailboats, and I remember that all sailboats are are designed for a purpose, and all are trade-offs. I keep a very open mind about that. I admired the O'day 28, I almost bought one. I sailed on it many times before waiting a year and then going with a C&C 34. But I liked it.
I know the OP quite well, and he really liked his 25. But then he moved to a race oriented club, and his priorities changed. The 25 is a roomy cruiser, but it gets positively hammered on the racecourse surrounded by very competitive boats. If you can't hold your lane upwind at WYC, you get spat out the back. He did, and its frustrating. In addition, the First has all manner of sail controls designed to help trim the boat optimally under all conditions. The Oday, more cruising oriented, does not do that. It doesn't make the O'day 25 a bad boat, just wrong for his new needs. If he gets a First 235, there will be slightly less room inside. But I guarantee it will be faster and more competitive around the racecourse. Priorities. He sold it to a guy for whom the boat fits very well.
I'm probably guilty of converting him to the First series. He's a frequent crew on both our boats, and the sails always seem to be memorable!
Brian, thanks for that. It is appreciated. Along with the others here who have given their kind words.
Also, Jackdaw speaks the truth about my racing experience this past season. Not the most fun.
And yes Jackdaw, it is ALL your fault in regards to my "conversion".
Also, Jackdaw speaks the truth about my racing experience this past season. Not the most fun.
And yes Jackdaw, it is ALL your fault in regards to my "conversion".
Yes, I have not raced my boats much. I thought I'd race the Harpoon a bit, and I have in cruising "distance" races (distance differentiates from buoy racing, but it's not much distance on a 6 mile lake…) but other times I'd be up against Flying Scots and Thistles. I haven't raced the O'day around the buoys, for several reasons 1) full of junk "But I NEED a stove to make coffee in the morning!" 2) She's hella slower than a Santana 2023R, J24, Santana 20, and Impulse 21 (the most frequent racers in our Portsmouth fleet) 3) That one time the "distance" race got cancelled, and my buddy and I were going to race the O'day around the buoys, we got skunked on wind so bad, we couldn't even make the windward buoy to finish the first triangle lap of the course. So we fired up the iron genny, went to the cool steep beach that allows us to nose right up to land without even raising the rudder blade, dug out the grill (see #1 above) and had burgers and beers, while those guys waited for wind on the course
I was looking at Beneteau's site today, wondering if I could handle a First 20… No adjustable backstay, no traveller, no bowsprit for an asym. I wonder how well it would race… seems heavy at 2700 pounds compared to a Precision 21at 1875#… And the windows are small, doesn't seem to have a forward hatch… Oh, then there's that problem of cost for a brand new boat
I was looking at Beneteau's site today, wondering if I could handle a First 20… No adjustable backstay, no traveller, no bowsprit for an asym. I wonder how well it would race… seems heavy at 2700 pounds compared to a Precision 21at 1875#… And the windows are small, doesn't seem to have a forward hatch… Oh, then there's that problem of cost for a brand new boat
I was looking at Beneteau's site today, wondering if I could handle a First 20… No adjustable backstay, no traveller, no bowsprit for an asym. I wonder how well it would race… seems heavy at 2700 pounds compared to a Precision 21at 1875#… And the windows are small, doesn't seem to have a forward hatch… Oh, then there's that problem of cost for a brand new boat
Brian,
Like the First 25s, the new First 20 is a updated-rig version of a very well regarded boat.. in the case of the 20, it is a First 210 with a new rig. The new rig sports a fat-top main... no need for a backstay. This full-battened sail twists off by itself in breeze, making the need to flatten the top half of the sail with the backstay unnecessary. As for the traveler, that would bother me too. The thinking is most people only use them to dump breeze; and you can vang sheet to do that.. but I'd miss it to pull the boom to the centerline when going upwind.
The boat DOES have an optional asym prod. Perfect length in my mind for an asym that will be used 90% of the time to reach.
The First 210 and the First 20 rate the same in PHRF and are VERY fast for their length. The national average is 195. You have to look very hard to find a 20 footer with a cabin that matches that. I did not find a P21 racing in the national USsailing directory, two clubs rate it at 252, meaning it rates a full MINUTE per mile SLOWER than the First, an huge difference. Not to twist the fork, but the nearest O'day in length (the 22) rates 280. That's an 85s/m delta.
Weight in not really factor in this. The two big factors are SA/D, and the boat's ability to make great VMG to windward. By design, the Firsts are rock stars at those things.
That is something we should do. Others may have had enough of our off topic discussions.