Hypalon no longer available?

[jibes138]

Just got the new Defender catalog in the mail and I noticed all the new inflatables are now offered with "CSM" material instead of Hypalon. Is this a new material and is it an improvement over Hypalon or are they cutting cost by using a lower grade material?

 

[cbsailor]

Hypalon is actually a CSM type of rubber product. Hypalon was the trademark name of rubber fabric manufactured by Dupont. Many CSM products were incorrectly referred to as Hypalon. Dupont shut down their only plant manfacturing Hypalon back in April of 2010 if my memory serves me well. There are still several companies, mostly off shore (where else?), who manufacture CSM products. The question we all want answered is are these fabrics equal to or better than the legendary Hypalon?

 

[Maine Sail]

The question we all want answered is are these fabrics equal to or better than the legendary Hypalon?

It is my understanding that AB inflatables, and many others, have been using non-Dupont Hypalon products for many years, probably why Dupont pulled out of the market.

Our 2000 AB shows zero signs of wear or UV damage and is made of Pennel Orca fabric.... the fact the Dupont is no longer marketing the trade name hypalon is pretty much a non-issue as there are many fabrics already in use that can likely equal its performance.

 

[Stephan]

Hypalon = Chlorosulfonated Polyethylene (synthetic rubber)

Hypalon is actually a CSM type of rubber product. Hypalon was the trademark name of rubber fabric manufactured by Dupont. Many CSM products were incorrectly referred to as Hypalon. Dupont shut down their only plant manfacturing Hypalon back in April of 2010 if my memory serves me well. There are still several companies, mostly off shore (where else?), who manufacture CSM products. The question we all want answered is are these fabrics equal to or better than the legendary Hypalon?

There are many CSM fabric manufacturers, but only a couple manufacturers of the actual raw material that is calendered onto the base cloth. Tosoh-Japan is the likely player for most CSM manufacturers now that Dupont ceased production, but the quality of the finished product is only partly about the raw material.

Fabric tensile strength is determined by thread thickness and tightness of weave (weft & fill). Then, the various coatings that the cloth are coated with [Neoprene & synthetic rubber (CSM)] determine the air holding ability and longevity of the clioth. The top layer of the coating was the only part that was "Hypalon" (chlorosulfonated polyethylene) before and that is still the case today.

In general and for recreational boating, the synthetic rubber coatings are about equal. The base cloth will vary in tensile strength and the thickness of coating will vary, but if it is a CSM (nee, "Hypalon") cloth, you can rely on it for resistance to UV degredation and longer life than PVC and Urethane coated fabrics.

Why West Marine continues to use the word "Hypalon" in reference to fabrics that are NOT made of Hypalon, is somewhat beyonmd me. I find it misleading to the public (not to mention it is illegal from a Trademark perspective, since DuPont ordered a cease of use of their Trademark).

As far as I know, the only boat manufacturer that is actually still using real DuPont Hypalon is Achilles, and only because they bought a two-year supply for their production. When they run out, they will likely source the raw material for their CSM from Tosoh-Japan. I chose Achilles fabric when I elected to build my own line of boats. I have now had over 25 years of positive experience with their fabrics and their engineering.

Hope that answers your question CB.

MaineSail, as usual you are dead on. Many, many boat manufacturers have been marketing that they use "Hyaplon" fabric, when in fact, they use ORCA fabric (from Pennell Industries in France), which has been a generic CSM for a long time. In some cases (like West Marine's boats) they use Pennell ORCA 215, which is the thinnest of all CSM fabrics on the market. Though the thread used is the same 1100 Decitex, the looser weave and the thinner coating result in a inferior finished base cloth and, ultimately, an inferior finished fabric.

AB uses Pennell ORCA 820, which is a heavier 1100 Dtex fabric.
Mercury uses Achilles T10 fabric, which is still real "Hypalon" (while supplies last).
Zodiac uses a heavier grade of CSM fabric, but they outsource all their fabric production.

I liken it to the term "Denim". Lots and lots of different weights, but they are all denim. Some will puncture or rip easily and some wil withstand abuse (like Levis denim).

Stephan

 

[Maine Sail]

There are many CSM fabric manufacturers, but only a couple manufacturers of the actual raw material that is calendered onto the base cloth. Tosoh-Japan is the likely player for most CSM manufacturers now that Dupont ceased production, but the quality of the finished product is only partly about the raw material.

Fabric tensile strength is determined by thread thickness and tightness of weave (weft & fill). Then, the various coatings that the cloth are coated with [Neoprene & synthetic rubber (CSM)] determine the air holding ability and longevity of the clioth. The top layer of the coating was the only part that was "Hypalon" (chlorosulfonated polyethylene) before and that is still the case today.

In general and for recreational boating, the synthetic rubber coatings are about equal. The base cloth will vary in tensile strength and the thickness of coating will vary, but if it is a CSM (nee, "Hypalon") cloth, you can rely on it for resistance to UV degredation and longer life than PVC and Urethane coated fabrics.

Why West Marine continues to use the word "Hypalon" in reference to fabrics that are NOT made of Hypalon, is somewhat beyonmd me. I find it misleading to the public (not to mention it is illegal from a Trademark perspective, since DuPont ordered a cease of use of their Trademark).

As far as I know, the only boat manufacturer that is actually still using real DuPont Hypalon is Achilles, and only because they bought a two-year supply for their production. When they run out, they will likely source the raw material for their CSM from Tosoh-Japan. I chose Achilles fabric when I elected to build my own line of boats. I have now had over 25 years of positive experience with their fabrics and their engineering.

Hope that answers your question CB.

MaineSail, as usual you are dead on. Many, many boat manufacturers have been marketing that they use "Hyaplon" fabric, when in fact, they use ORCA fabric (from Pennell Industries in France), which has been a generic CSM for a long time. In some cases (like West Marine's boats) they use Pennell ORCA 215, which is the thinnest of all CSM fabrics on the market. Though the thread used is the same 1100 Decitex, the looser weave and the thinner coating result in a inferior finished base cloth and, ultimately, an inferior finished fabric.

AB uses Pennell ORCA 820, which is a heavier 1100 Dtex fabric.
Mercury uses Achilles T10 fabric, which is still real "Hypalon" (while supplies last).
Zodiac uses a heavier grade of CSM fabric, but they outsource all their fabric production.

I liken it to the term "Denim". Lots and lots of different weights, but they are all denim. Some will puncture or rip easily and some wil withstand abuse (like Levis denim).

Stephan

Thanks Stephan! That's why I bought my last inflatable from you and why I'll buy my next one from you too. This damn AB is holding up well though so it could be the 20+ year mark before I need a new one..

 

[kenn]

Now THAT was a post. Thanks Stephan (and MS).

 

[jimmcgee]

Dinghy chaps for hypalon

I have a general hypalon question. I have an older hypalon dinghy, an 8' Zepplin roll-up with an aluminum hard floor. The dinghy came with the boat and also came with a slow leak. After getting the inside of the tubes coated by Inflatable Experts in Annapolis I cleaned her up and she's doing well.

Last summer someone at the marina said I should have a set of sunbrella chaps made to extend the life of the dinghy. I'm guessing the dinghy is 10+ years old. Is it worth the cost of getting a set of dinghy chaps or are the chaps redundant with hypalon?

Thanks
Jim

 

[Stephan]

Dinghy Chaps worth it on a 10-year old Zeppelin?? Not IMHO.

Just as you might cover yourself with a hat to reduce exposure to the sun, your boat would benefit from UV protection.

Personally, I am not a big fan of chaps. They can cost a lot. If the price is right and you see "value", there is no doubt that you boat's fabric will benefit from that type of protection.

I started importing a canvas rub-rail clip that might help, if you want to clip on to a tear-drop shaped rubrail. Bringing them in from Italy. Great for do-it-yourselfers or folks looking to secure a cover to their inflatable. I started importing them from Europe after seeing them in France a while back. http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?prodnum=455214

My preference is for spray-on sun protection formulas. Much more cost effective and I feel they preserve and protect the fabric better than chaps or covers (doing both is fine too). Protectant 303 or UV Tech are the two that are available at West, Defender or anywhere. Both are equally good. Couple of treatments throughout the season is good. Light coating, wipe down.

I would not invest several hundred dollars on a 10-year old Zeppelin for chaps, but that is me. I'd simply protect it with spray-on solutions.

Hope that helps.

Stephan

 

[orion]

Why not just paint the dinghy with MDR topside paint. That will protect the fabric and spruce up the appearance.

 

[Capt. Kermie]

MDR topside paint???

Why not just paint the dinghy with MDR topside paint. That will protect the fabric and spruce up the appearance.

Is this a joke or is t for real? Can I spruce up my PVC inflatable, it is deteriorating on me. Where can you get this product and is it flexible for when the dinghy is deflated?

 

[orion]

No joke. The paint is a rubberized paint and is available from Defenders. I have used it on my zodiac which is about 15 yrs old. It really looks good and they also make an antifouling paint for the bottom. It comes in white, red or gray. Check it out.

 

[zeehag]

I have a general hypalon question. I have an older hypalon dinghy, an 8' Zepplin roll-up with an aluminum hard floor. The dinghy came with the boat and also came with a slow leak. After getting the inside of the tubes coated by Inflatable Experts in Annapolis I cleaned her up and she's doing well.

Last summer someone at the marina said I should have a set of sunbrella chaps made to extend the life of the dinghy. I'm guessing the dinghy is 10+ years old. Is it worth the cost of getting a set of dinghy chaps or are the chaps redundant with hypalon?

Thanks
Jim

YES is worth it-- hypalon was made exclusively by dupont unitil recently and had a 20 yr warantee as was originally a really goodrpoduct, the copy cat corporations copied the recipe but isnt as good as original(allegedly), so dupont ceased and desisted in providing their product. the new stuff is 10 yr and is a good competitor for pvc. sorry guys.i will stand behind an older hypalon dink-- not a new one. i liked the older ones== they were excellent and lasted forever, as a dupont retiree i know well told me.
as for the older hypalon dink-- yes do get the chaps-- the dink will last until there is nothing left-- at which time, paint it and keep in the air.....

btw--the chaps should only cost 200$us custom made. that was pricing for my c-9 caribe. there is more material in that than in your 8 ft dink. go for it.

 

[Buck420]

Just as you might cover yourself with a hat to reduce exposure to the sun, your boat would benefit from UV protection.

Personally, I am not a big fan of chaps. They can cost a lot. If the price is right and you see "value", there is no doubt that you boat's fabric will benefit from that type of protection.

I started importing a canvas rub-rail clip that might help, if you want to clip on to a tear-drop shaped rubrail. Bringing them in from Italy. Great for do-it-yourselfers or folks looking to secure a cover to their inflatable. I started importing them from Europe after seeing them in France a while back. http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?prodnum=455214

My preference is for spray-on sun protection formulas. Much more cost effective and I feel they preserve and protect the fabric better than chaps or covers (doing both is fine too). Protectant 303 or UV Tech are the two that are available at West, Defender or anywhere. Both are equally good. Couple of treatments throughout the season is good. Light coating, wipe down.

I would not invest several hundred dollars on a 10-year old Zeppelin for chaps, but that is me. I'd simply protect it with spray-on solutions.

Hope that helps.

Stephan

Stephan,

IYHO, would my 7 yr old 10' AB ( which always stays up in stern davits) be better off w/ a new cover (my 3yr old one is shot) or just wiped down w/ Protectant 303 or UV Tech ?

 

[RAD]

In 2000 I bought a high pressure floor Zodiac from WM and without doing any research like I normally do before buying a product I soon found out that this is made of PVC and will deteriorate left out in the sun (where else do you leave dink) then after having this repaired cause seams opened up it stated to get sticky so fed up I acquired a friends 27 year old Achilles dink and its made of Hypalon and other than faded out and old plywood floor it
performs the same as it did when new.
I just read about this inflatable paint and thought I'd give the PVC dink a coat and use that till it breaks and then save for a rigid bottom dink

 

[jimmcgee]

Wiping mine down with 303 a couple of times per seasons sounds like a KISS solution.

Thanks Stephan

 

[robertsapp]

Personally some of the worst looking dinks I've ever seen were ones the owners painted with that inflatable coating paint. Maybe it was inadequate surface preparation, but on every one I've seen, the coating was blistered and peeling, and turned the boat into a complete eyesore. Maybe others have had more success, my sample size was pretty small, but I'd never use the stuff because I've seen what it turns in to here in the Florida sun.

 

[Manureva]

my zodiac is a 1988

the zodiac i use is a 1988! i think it is hypallon , the fabric is in very good shape, the glue is starting to let go... it has a few slow leak , ill bring it to the rubber shop for a fix and use it for a few more year!

 

[gettinthere]

I went with the "inflatable boat paint". It looks very good after 2 years...except where it abrades against the davit. The paint does not hold up to abrasion. Many report flaking & peeling but that can be from poor prep. The prep job has to be perfect. Too much humidity will also ruin a good prep job.

So concluding, the paint can go on well if prepped very well under ideal conditions but will still peel or flake when abraded.

 

[Capt. Kermie]

MDR Top Coat for inflatables

Wiping mine down with 303 a couple of times per seasons sounds like a KISS solution.
Thanks Stephan

I tried 303 once a month through the summer but it did not help, the PVC still turned sticky.

No joke. The paint is a rubberized paint and is available from Defenders. I have used it on my zodiac which is about 15 yrs old. It really looks good and they also make an antifouling paint for the bottom. It comes in white, red or gray. Check it out.

I did a google search and found it at Jametown dist., tried to order one quart but somehow ened up getting two to be delivered, stupid site wouldn't cooperate with me, oh welll I am sure to use the second quart. I sure hope it works.

 

[Maine Sail]

I tried 303 once a month through the summer but it did not help, the PVC still turned sticky.

This is not an issue of the 303 but rather a defect in the manufacture of the PVC material. Zodiac had and perhaps still has a major issue with this. I owned one and it took them two years to fess up to the issue and replace my boat. A good quality PVC boat will not turn sticky in under two years as ours did.