Hunter Legend 37: How is your boomvang cleated off in the cockpit?

[Ringydingydo]

My 1989 Legend 37 has 5 line clutches for lines led aft. All are full of lines and that means the boomvang has no way to cleat it off.
How is yours set up?
I'm looking at adding a 6th line clutch or a cam cleat with fairlead.
On the inside of the boat, there are NO bolts visible for the original clutches (The two winches have round access deck plates in the ceiling.) what am I missing? What did you do on the underside of the deck to access/replace/add to the lines lead aft?

My 5 clutches cover: main halyard, genoa halyard, spin halyard, main topping lift, spin pole uphaul

 

[Terry Cox]

My 5 clutches cover: main halyard, genoa halyard, spin halyard, main topping lift, spin pole uphaul

Different model boat, but I had a similar problem with adding a spin halyard. Our boat came with eight clutches that were full. What I did was to move the topping lift working end from the line clutch to the end of the boom. The bitter end remained at the mast where it has always been. I can still access the working end from the cockpit area when raising and lowering the main. That will open up a clutch for your vang line. See my project here: Hunter 42 Owner Modifications and Upgrades

P.S. The sheet stopper bolts on our boat can be accessed via a removable overhead panel inside the boat. Yours should have a similar access; ditto the winches..

Any cruising stories to share? Do you get up this way often?

 

[Davidasailor26]

Not sure about the Legend series, but at least some Hunters have an aluminum plate embedded in the deck that things like clutches thread into, without needing to be through-bolted. That would explain why you don’t see any fasteners on the inside.

 

[Joe]

Actually, I agree with Terry above. With the vang equipped boom, you don't need a topping lift to sail the boat.
The boom topping lift can be cleated out of the way, on the mast or boom for instance, giving you a clutch for the vang..

My thought is that if you want to add another cleat for the vang, make it a cam style that can be released quickly.

 

[Ringydingydo]

Not sure about the Legend series, but at least some Hunters have an aluminum plate embedded in the deck that things like clutches thread into, without needing to be through-bolted. That would explain why you don’t see any fasteners on the inside.

Thanks. You are the 2nd person to tell me that on this forum. I suppose you have to drill smaller holefirst and tap threads into the aluminum, then drill slightly larger above the plate for the bolts to pass through.
And you need an 'aluminum detector' to find the edge of teh aluminum plate... hmmm I need X-Ray vision sometimes.

 

[Ringydingydo]

Actually, I agree with Terry above. With the vang equipped boom, you don't need a topping lift to sail the boat.
The boom topping lift can be cleated out of the way, on the mast or boom for instance, giving you a clutch for the vang..

My thought is that if you want to add another cleat for the vang, make it a cam style that can be released quickly.

Agreed about the cam cleat. Already bought one.
Now, trying to figure out:
1. Where to put it - next to clutches or at the cabin top edge like my Ranger 33?
2. How to attach it since on the underside the headliner does not appear to be removable and it sounds hollow between it and the understide of teh deck. (The winches have access panels to get to the bolts but nothing else does.)

 

[Ringydingydo]

Different model boat, but I had a similar problem with adding a spin halyard. Our boat came with eight clutches that were full. What I did was to move the topping lift working end from the line clutch to the end of the boom. The bitter end remained at the mast where it has always been. I can still access the working end from the cockpit area when raising and lowering the main. That will open up a clutch for your vang line. See my project here: Hunter 42 Owner Modifications and Upgrades

P.S. The sheet stopper bolts on our boat can be accessed via a removable overhead panel inside the boat. Yours should have a similar access; ditto the winches..

Any cruising stories to share? Do you get up this way often?

Thanks.
I looked at your modification link and don't understand it. The bitter end is tied in a bowline around the turning block on the topping lift (the working end). Where does the standing part / running end go once it goes through the cam cleat? Sounds like it goes to the mast, but then how do you access it from the cockpit since it no longer runs aft?

 

[Hello Below]

Actually, I agree with Terry above. With the vang equipped boom, you don't need a topping lift to sail the boat.
The boom topping lift can be cleated out of the way, on the mast or boom for instance, giving you a clutch for the vang..

Agreed . . . but only if the OP has a rigid vang with a gas piston vs a block and tackle. Once I added a gas piston to the original rigid boomvang (Selden rod-kicker), the topping lift became redundant. I moved the topping lift halyard from the clutch in the cockpit to a cleat on the mast. The shackle end of the topping lift is secured on a outboard turnbuckle and can be used as a backup main halyard or a safety line for hoisting crew. I then ran the boomvang control line through a turning block, a deck organizer then to the vacated topping lift clutch.

 

[Ringydingydo]

Agreed . . . but only if the OP has a rigid vang with a gas piston vs a block and tackle. Once I added a gas piston to the original rigid boomvang (Selden rod-kicker), the topping lift became redundant. I moved the topping lift halyard from the clutch in the cockpit to a cleat on the mast. The shackle end of the topping lift is secured on a outboard turnbuckle and can be used as a backup main halyard or a safety line for hoisting crew. I then ran the boomvang control line through a turning block, a deck organizer then to the vacated topping lift clutch.

Thanks. On my 37 the topping lift is fixed at the top of the mast so it cannot be used as a backup halyard. Just a difference in boats. The lower end has a turning block. Then the topping lift line (tied to the aft end of the boom) goes around the block, back to the boom and inside it to the gooseneck, then led aft to the cockpit.

 

[Terry Cox]

I looked at your modification link and don't understand it.

Our boat came with a Dutchman flaking system with the bitter end cleated off at the mast at crew level. The working end is secured to the top part of the upper turning block. A short trim line connects to the upper part of the lower block then runs through the upper block and back down through the lower block and through the cam cleat to secure the trim. That short line allows enough to trim and ease the boom when raising and lowering the main. The middle picture of my article gives the best illustration of the set up. Does that help?

Our boat came with a traditional non-rigid vang with the working end back through a sheet stopper and into the cockpit.

 

[Ringydingydo]

Our boat came with a Dutchman flaking system with the bitter end cleated off at the mast at crew level. The working end is secured to the top part of the upper turning block. A short trim line connects to the upper part of the lower block then runs through the upper block and back down through the lower block and through the cam cleat to secure the trim. That short line allows enough to trim and ease the boom when raising and lowering the main. The middle picture of my article gives the best illustration of the set up. Does that help?

Our boat came with a traditional non-rigid vang with the working end back through a sheet stopper and into the cockpit.

Thanks, Terry.
I just can't see wher the running part of the line goes after it comes out of the cam cleat. It sounds like it is short (2-3 ft) vs going 16 feet back to the mast. I guess you reach up from the cockpit to the cam cleat on the boom to release and take in the topping lift.

 

[Terry Cox]

I guess you reach up from the cockpit to the cam cleat on the boom to release and take in the topping lift.

Yup, that's it.

 

[Joe]

Agreed . . . but only if the OP has a rigid vang with a gas piston vs a block and tackle. Once I added a gas piston to the original rigid boomvang (Selden rod-kicker), the topping lift became redundant. I moved the topping lift halyard from the clutch in the cockpit to a cleat on the mast. The shackle end of the topping lift is secured on a outboard turnbuckle and can be used as a backup main halyard or a safety line for hoisting crew. I then ran the boomvang control line through a turning block, a deck organizer then to the vacated topping lift clutch.

Oops, for some reason I thought he was talking about a rigid vang, but went back an noted he only said "vang". I've called my rigid vang simply the "vang" ever since I installed it 23 years ago. My boom topping lift was a static line with the adjustment tackle connecting it to the boom with the control line run forward a bit so it can be operated more easily. When I installed a new mainsail with a larger roach and full length upper battens the topping lift became a completely annoying device that diminished my sailing pleasure. The answer was, of course, the rigid vang.... an unbelievable improvement that made tacking the boat fun again. The topping lift has been relegated to being wrapped around the backstay and has never been used since the day I installed the rigid vang.

 

[Dr. D]

Even with a rigid boom vang, the topping lift is not redundant. On my boat, the topping lift is tied off at the end of the boom, runs to the top of the mast, then down and cleated off on the mast at the height of the boom. I keep enough tension on the topping lift that with the main sail furled the vang is not being compressed. With the mail sail unfurled (in mast furling), the topping lift goes slack and the boom vang takes over. I don't adjust the topping lift often, so going forward to adjust is not an issue.