Hunter 41DS Holding Tank Back-filling with Raw Water

Oct 10, 2017
21
Hunter 41DS Westport Marina
Wondering if any other Hunter 41DS owners have this same issue. I recently purchased a Hunter 41DS. On our trip from Vancouver to the island I opened all the sea cocks I thought I needed for the voyage. Head pick ups, sink drains, engine raw water pickup, and holding tank. We got to our first anchorage and the holding tank was almost full so the next day, when we were away we discharged the holding tank and proceeded on our trip. A short while later I noticed that the holding tank was about 1/2 full. It appears that it is filling through sea cock and macerator back into the holding tank. Do others have this same issue. I am thinking of either putting in a check valve behind the macerator or a anti siphon loop in the line from the macerator to the sea cock. Does anyone have any recommendations on what they would do or did do. Thanks - Geoff
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,770
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Do others have this same issue.
Yes. The reason is your hold tank is below the boat's water level.

Solution is to close the macerator discharge thu hull valve when Hold tank is emptied.

When you hold tank needs to be emptied, open valve, turn on macerator, empty the hold tank, and close valve.
Jim...
 
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Oct 10, 2017
21
Hunter 41DS Westport Marina
yea... that's what I've been doing but it's not what I've had on my other boats. Was just thinking it's nice to not have to cycle that sea cock every time I want to discharge. Thanks for your input.
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,770
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
The term HOLD tank is just for that reason. Hold the sewage until time to remove it by proper methods.
Jim...
 
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Oct 10, 2017
21
Hunter 41DS Westport Marina
your not getting me.... I discharge at the proper times and in the proper locations. I just would like to keep the sea cock open and not have it fill the holding tank. That's all. Thanks.
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,770
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
your not getting me.
Yes I do.

My H430 does the same as your H41

If your HOLD tank vent is open to the air, and the top of you HOLD tank is below sea level....

Water will flow backwards through the OPEN valve to fill you HOLD tank.

Good Luck....
Jim..
 
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RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,742
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
My holding tank is above the waterline so I speculate here. You could try looping the outlet hose above the waterline and then back down to the seacock. I would place the macerator up high as well. My macerator is on top of the tank next to the Y Valve. There is a translucent elbow on the hose that I watch when running the macerator. When the tank is near empty I observe both air and liquid splashing through the elbow and I shut off the macerator. So it appears the pump has some ability to lift but I do not know offhand the macerator specifications. Should work. Someone else here must have that arrangement with a below waterline holding tank?
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,946
- - LIttle Rock
If the tank is even partially below waterline, the overboard discharge thru-hull should always be kept closed except when dumping the tank. If left open the pressure of the water against the thru-hull while underway will force water up the discharge line into the tank--an effect known as "ram" water. When the boat is at rest, water outside the boat will seek its own level INside the boat, rising to the boat's waterline. A vented loop in the discharge line won't block water being "rammed" up that hose and I doubt if it could be mounted high enough to do any good if it did...and a check valve will create more problems than it solves, so don't even think doing that.

I don't know how often you have to dump the tank, but if it's just too much trouble to open and close the seacock when you do, maybe you need a larger tank. If that's not an option, you'll just have to accept the "inconvenience" of following long established safety procedures that exist for very good reasons.

This does not apply to tanks that are entirely above waterline and drain via gravity.

--Peggie
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,268
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Do others have this same issue.
Been doing the same for the last 24 years. I thought everyone had the same problem. Odd thing is, if away on a cruise for several weeks, occasionally I have forgotten to close the through hull and the tank does not seem to backfill. It takes the expected 3-4 days to fill and then "surprise", the through hull is found open. I don't think there's a check valve in the pump, maybe just crud acting as a temporary blockage.
 
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JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,770
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I don't think there's a check valve in the pump, maybe just crud acting as a temporary blockage.
It could be a partially restricted Hold tank vent.
Finally the hydraulic back pressure blew out the vent line crud.

Check valve ,in a sewage discharge line, would be so much fun to repair, when it gets plugged or restricted.:facepalm:
Jim...

PS: My 25 gallon Hold tank takes 20 minutes to back fill with clean vent line.
 
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Oct 10, 2017
21
Hunter 41DS Westport Marina
Thanks all for the great feedback. Guess I am going to only open the valve when discharging. Not a big deal really but it's nice to know I'm not missing some little trick or hose configuration that could solve the riddle. Geoff
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,770
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
One last trick or comment.

When out for a long cruise, on the return trip, in an allowed discharge spot...

1) Empty the Hold Tank
2) Back fill it with Sea Water.
3) Empty again.
4) Repeat that 2 times

Result ≈ Clean and ready for next trip out.
Jim....
 
Dec 25, 2000
5,932
Hunter Passage 42 Shelter Bay, WA
Different model boat, but similar setup. Maybe a check valve will work; give it a try and let us know the outcome. On our boat seacocks remain closed until time to use the electric toilet. Ditto the overboard discharge macerator pump. Left overboard seacock open one time many years ago and it slowly filled the holding tank.
 
Oct 26, 2010
2,144
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
I was under the impression that the holding tank overboard discharge valve was required to be "secured" in the closed position whenever within an area that did not permit legal discharge of the holding tank. This would be whether it's a direct overboard discharge or through a macerator. It doesn't have to be a lock per se but must be easy to recognize that it is closed and secure3d and not easily manipulated (zip tie, etc). Seems easy enough to keep it closed and only open when you intend to run the macerator. Of course, I guess if you are discharging directly overboard and not using the macerator you might want to leave it open to make it convenient but make sure to close and secure it when you enter waters that do not permit discharge. I don't think I'd want to put a "check valve" in the line. The kind of stuff you are running through that line could easily cause the check valve to not close completely so it would defeat the purpose and its failure to open when discharging could be a real problem.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,162
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
@smokey73 is correct. In the US when in no discharge zones (pretty much the entire Puget Sound) the discharge valve is required to be closed and secured. If boarded by the CG, they will check that as part of the safety inspection. When I had the CG auxiliary do a safety check, that was on their form. I suspect it is the same form used by the Active Duty folks.
 
Dec 25, 2000
5,932
Hunter Passage 42 Shelter Bay, WA
When I was stopped for an inspection by the CG awhile ago, when it came to the macerator seacock, they just needed confirmation that it was closed, and it was. The handle remained on the seacock and there was nothing to prevent it from being opened. Whether a different CG crew would pass on my situation remains to be seen.
 
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Oct 26, 2010
2,144
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
While a particular Coast Guard stop and inspection might not issue a citation, it is a federal regulation that the MSD Type III (black water holding tank like most of us have) overboard discharge MUST be secured (not just shut), including a direct overboard Y valve if installed. I suppose it is like police officers that have discretion in issuing a citation, but it doesn't change the underlaying violation if one exists, just whether a citation is written. @Terry Cox, although the CG didn't cite you, I'm surprised they did not caution you at least verbally of the requirement. Ie "This valve is supposed to be closed and secured. If you have a tie wrap, please attach us for it and we won't cite you" or similar such slack. They didn't do you any favors if they left you with the impression that it did not need to be shut and secured.

The regulation itself is contained in Title 33 Code of Federal Regulations, Part 159 "Marine Sanitation Devices" (33CFR159)

§ 159.7 Requirements for vessel operators.
(a) No person may operate any vessel equipped with installed toilet facilities unless it is equipped with:

(1) An operable Type II or III device that has a label on it under § 159.16 or that is certified under § 159.12 or § 159.12a; or

(2) An operable Type I device that has a label on it under § 159.16 or that is certified under § 159.12, if the vessel is 19.7 meters (65 feet) or less in length.

(c) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge of untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3, the operator must secure each Type III device in a manner which prevents discharge of sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device include -

(1) Closing each valve leading to an overboard discharge and removing the handle;

(2) Padlocking each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position; or

(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position.
 
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Jul 6, 2017
158
Hunter H 41DS Hampton, VA
Mine will do the same. Only open the holding tank valve when you are pumping the tank. Otherwise the valve must be closed. BTW: the pump is also below the water line. So if the pump housing ever comes apart (which is typical of these pumps because the bolts get corroded through) you will have a major leak through the ball valve if it's left open. Keep the valve closed.