I want to install an autopilot. I thinking the Raytheon ST 6000 is doing well, but i don't know what drive unit I need, the type 1 it's up to 24,000 lbs of displacement or the type 2 up to 44,000 lbs. Has anyone tell me what is the best and if the installation it is easy to do?
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bigger the better
A lot depends on what you're hoping to do with the boat. Will you be making long ocean passages? I put an ST 7000 with the larger motor on my 410, and am glad of it. I have no hesitation turning the helm over to the pilot going downwind in big seas even with the spinnaker flying. A long downwind run can be very taxing on a shorthanded crew, and it's nice to be able to take a short break every now and then.
A lot depends on what you're hoping to do with the boat. Will you be making long ocean passages? I put an ST 7000 with the larger motor on my 410, and am glad of it. I have no hesitation turning the helm over to the pilot going downwind in big seas even with the spinnaker flying. A long downwind run can be very taxing on a shorthanded crew, and it's nice to be able to take a short break every now and then.
autopilot
I agree with John. I have an ST 6000 with the type II rotary drive on our 410. for the small difference in cost the added safety zone is worth the dollars. its nice to have a third mate that doesn't get hungry, cranky or tired. Bryce S/V Spellbiner
I agree with John. I have an ST 6000 with the type II rotary drive on our 410. for the small difference in cost the added safety zone is worth the dollars. its nice to have a third mate that doesn't get hungry, cranky or tired. Bryce S/V Spellbiner
ST-6000 Autopilot
On a Raytheon St6000 make sure that in calabration options the Drive Type is set to type 5, or the unit will "churp" on every course correction. Took 8 months to get an answer.
On a Raytheon St6000 make sure that in calabration options the Drive Type is set to type 5, or the unit will "churp" on every course correction. Took 8 months to get an answer.
6000 vs 7000
I installed an Autohelm autopilot on a 40.5 (20,000#) and for the display unit I chose the ST6000+ over the ST7000 because it cost less, was smaller and the tech at RayMarine (formerly Raytheon) said the difference was an extra button, larger display and you could enter the desired course. On the 6000+ it steers the course it is reading at the time you press the AUTO button. But then you just use the jog keys to set the desired course. The which display unit you choose has nothing to do with the SIZE of boat its on. I am very happy with the 6000+. The rest of the system is the drive (determined by boat size and steering linkage) and the control component package. The drive unit you want is the Type 2 rotary. I have seen some really nice installations on H410s. I chose a Type 2 linear long drive since it will still work if a steering cable lets go. A rotary drive will not and you will have to use the emergency tiller. The component package (Type 300) has the course computer, fluxgate compass compass and rudder indicator. I added the Gyro Plus Yaw Rate transducer ($450) to help with downwind performance. It does a great job. I got all components at WM at Defender prices and installed myself.
I installed an Autohelm autopilot on a 40.5 (20,000#) and for the display unit I chose the ST6000+ over the ST7000 because it cost less, was smaller and the tech at RayMarine (formerly Raytheon) said the difference was an extra button, larger display and you could enter the desired course. On the 6000+ it steers the course it is reading at the time you press the AUTO button. But then you just use the jog keys to set the desired course. The which display unit you choose has nothing to do with the SIZE of boat its on. I am very happy with the 6000+. The rest of the system is the drive (determined by boat size and steering linkage) and the control component package. The drive unit you want is the Type 2 rotary. I have seen some really nice installations on H410s. I chose a Type 2 linear long drive since it will still work if a steering cable lets go. A rotary drive will not and you will have to use the emergency tiller. The component package (Type 300) has the course computer, fluxgate compass compass and rudder indicator. I added the Gyro Plus Yaw Rate transducer ($450) to help with downwind performance. It does a great job. I got all components at WM at Defender prices and installed myself.
While you guys are giving answers..
..I can't figure out where the course computer is on my 40.5. (I have the rotary drive and a 7000, FYI. What a great combo.) The fluxgate is is forward of the galley. I suppose every mechanic has their own place. I am trying to hook up a Seatalk connection to my Raymarine 520 plotter, and thought it would be the logical place to put a connection. Anybody know what is special about the seatalk cable and any special splicing instructions? Is this just a WM purchase, or is it a specialty item? Rick D.
..I can't figure out where the course computer is on my 40.5. (I have the rotary drive and a 7000, FYI. What a great combo.) The fluxgate is is forward of the galley. I suppose every mechanic has their own place. I am trying to hook up a Seatalk connection to my Raymarine 520 plotter, and thought it would be the logical place to put a connection. Anybody know what is special about the seatalk cable and any special splicing instructions? Is this just a WM purchase, or is it a specialty item? Rick D.
computer head location
Dear Rick: If I recall correctly, the control head is located under the aft stateroom bunk on your boat.
Dear Rick: If I recall correctly, the control head is located under the aft stateroom bunk on your boat.
Course computer and Seatalk
Rick, The course computer (CC) could have been put anywhere that's convenient as long as it stays dry and cool. On my 40.5 it is behind the door in the aft bulkhead of the aft cabin. Seatalk network connections (3 leads) are similiar to any serial communication connections and 2 or more Seatalk cables can be joined on a small terminal strip. Raymarine sells them with a small box around them ($20) so they are sort of waterproof. I don't like splices (butt connections). The(CC) has two places to connect Seatalk to it. Beware, when Seatalk is connected to a CC, it gets the required 12VDC power from the CC by default through a 4 amp fuse in the CC (next to the terminal strip). If Seatalk was installed so that it also gets its power from another source like a small breaker or fuse (typical installation) AND the AP breaker is OFF then the CC gets ALL of its power through the Seatalk network and that 4 amp fuse(not good!). I checked this with Raymarine tech support. SO if you wanted Seatalk on without the AP on and there is an alternate source for Seatalk power, then you would have to 'switch off' the Seatalk to the CC (a real pain). I just always turn both my Instruments (Seatalk) breaker and my Autopilot breaker ON. IF I am sure I will not hit the AUTO button on the AP (causes blown fuse) then I can just power Seatalk with the Instrument breaker. I have a complete schematic of all instruments and electronics components on Yaga if you are interested. I also have a schematic of all 12VDC components.
Rick, The course computer (CC) could have been put anywhere that's convenient as long as it stays dry and cool. On my 40.5 it is behind the door in the aft bulkhead of the aft cabin. Seatalk network connections (3 leads) are similiar to any serial communication connections and 2 or more Seatalk cables can be joined on a small terminal strip. Raymarine sells them with a small box around them ($20) so they are sort of waterproof. I don't like splices (butt connections). The(CC) has two places to connect Seatalk to it. Beware, when Seatalk is connected to a CC, it gets the required 12VDC power from the CC by default through a 4 amp fuse in the CC (next to the terminal strip). If Seatalk was installed so that it also gets its power from another source like a small breaker or fuse (typical installation) AND the AP breaker is OFF then the CC gets ALL of its power through the Seatalk network and that 4 amp fuse(not good!). I checked this with Raymarine tech support. SO if you wanted Seatalk on without the AP on and there is an alternate source for Seatalk power, then you would have to 'switch off' the Seatalk to the CC (a real pain). I just always turn both my Instruments (Seatalk) breaker and my Autopilot breaker ON. IF I am sure I will not hit the AUTO button on the AP (causes blown fuse) then I can just power Seatalk with the Instrument breaker. I have a complete schematic of all instruments and electronics components on Yaga if you are interested. I also have a schematic of all 12VDC components.
auto pilot on 410
Mickey indicated a linear drive unit. I don't beleive it'll work on a 410. My 410 has the Edson rack and pinon steering, so even if the drive train breaks (mine twisted the shaft off the edson sterring last year due to a manufacturing defect at Edson, which they stood behind) you still have steering at the wheel. Bryce
Mickey indicated a linear drive unit. I don't beleive it'll work on a 410. My 410 has the Edson rack and pinon steering, so even if the drive train breaks (mine twisted the shaft off the edson sterring last year due to a manufacturing defect at Edson, which they stood behind) you still have steering at the wheel. Bryce
Bryce
I said "The drive unit you want is the Type 2 rotary." I mentioned that I had a linear drive on my 40.5 just for info. If I could do it again would go with the rotary. Its a much cleared installation on the 40.5 but I do get AP steering if the 40.5's steering cables break.
I said "The drive unit you want is the Type 2 rotary." I mentioned that I had a linear drive on my 40.5 just for info. If I could do it again would go with the rotary. Its a much cleared installation on the 40.5 but I do get AP steering if the 40.5's steering cables break.
Thanks, Patrick and Mickey, and sorry Cesar..
for stepping on your thread. However, as long as I did, permit me one more query: Mickey; thanks for the warning. The 520 display talks to the GPS engine via a seatalk buss that has no 12V. So, I had to power it up by a connection. So, if I go to the rest of the seatalk ring, it will get power as part of that ring and I don't need (can't use?) the power to the buss, right? This isn't on-point to your caution, but I need to think about it. I'm sure I have the (stock) wiring schematic. Thanks for your offer. Patrick, I see you entered in the Ensenada race. Hope it was a good one. Cesar, thanks for the space. Let us know how it works out. Rick D.
for stepping on your thread. However, as long as I did, permit me one more query: Mickey; thanks for the warning. The 520 display talks to the GPS engine via a seatalk buss that has no 12V. So, I had to power it up by a connection. So, if I go to the rest of the seatalk ring, it will get power as part of that ring and I don't need (can't use?) the power to the buss, right? This isn't on-point to your caution, but I need to think about it. I'm sure I have the (stock) wiring schematic. Thanks for your offer. Patrick, I see you entered in the Ensenada race. Hope it was a good one. Cesar, thanks for the space. Let us know how it works out. Rick D.
Rick - Answers
The Seatalk network can have multiple sources of power. A Raymarine tech said if more than 4 Seatalk devices then there should be 2 sources, but he couldn't explain why. You need to connect course computer Seatalk to the chartplotter Seatalk to get heading from the fluxgate compass and give the CC tracking info from the chartplotter selected route if you want to use TRACK mode on the AP. If you do the 'warning is in effect'. Check out Yaga's schematic on the photo forum. Good luck with the hookup. Don't worry Rick, cause Cesar is eating this up.
The Seatalk network can have multiple sources of power. A Raymarine tech said if more than 4 Seatalk devices then there should be 2 sources, but he couldn't explain why. You need to connect course computer Seatalk to the chartplotter Seatalk to get heading from the fluxgate compass and give the CC tracking info from the chartplotter selected route if you want to use TRACK mode on the AP. If you do the 'warning is in effect'. Check out Yaga's schematic on the photo forum. Good luck with the hookup. Don't worry Rick, cause Cesar is eating this up.
SeaTalk power
I'll weigh in here and see if I'm reasonably close to the question. I also just installed a complete Ratheon system...two chart plotters, instruments and autopilot. I powered the Seatalk bus through the Instrument breaker and a fuse (I also power the chart plotters from here, but that is not relevant to the question). I powered the Autopilot through the autopilot circuit breaker. I noticed after I was done, that turning on either the autopilot or the instruments caused the other to power up, indicated by the breaker light associated with the other circuit coming on. Obviously power was crossing over, and it did not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the SeaTalk buss was getting poweer from the instrument breaker and the autopilot SeaTalk connection. Well this will work, and in my instance I could not see any obvious electrical over current issues, it just went against everything I know about circuits. The chartplotters / radar do not draw power from the Sea Talk bus so it was just a case of two power sources for the instruments. Simple solution followed. I cut the molded end off the SeaTalk cable hooked to the autopilot and attached clips to the wires, abandoning the power wire, leaving the data wires and ground. Hooked it back into the SeaTalk connection of the autopilot head. Now the Instrument breaker only runs instruments ( and through fused distribution the radar / chartplotters) and the Autopilot breaker only runs the autopilot, and they still talk just fine. Dan Jonas
I'll weigh in here and see if I'm reasonably close to the question. I also just installed a complete Ratheon system...two chart plotters, instruments and autopilot. I powered the Seatalk bus through the Instrument breaker and a fuse (I also power the chart plotters from here, but that is not relevant to the question). I powered the Autopilot through the autopilot circuit breaker. I noticed after I was done, that turning on either the autopilot or the instruments caused the other to power up, indicated by the breaker light associated with the other circuit coming on. Obviously power was crossing over, and it did not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the SeaTalk buss was getting poweer from the instrument breaker and the autopilot SeaTalk connection. Well this will work, and in my instance I could not see any obvious electrical over current issues, it just went against everything I know about circuits. The chartplotters / radar do not draw power from the Sea Talk bus so it was just a case of two power sources for the instruments. Simple solution followed. I cut the molded end off the SeaTalk cable hooked to the autopilot and attached clips to the wires, abandoning the power wire, leaving the data wires and ground. Hooked it back into the SeaTalk connection of the autopilot head. Now the Instrument breaker only runs instruments ( and through fused distribution the radar / chartplotters) and the Autopilot breaker only runs the autopilot, and they still talk just fine. Dan Jonas
Dan - Seatalk Questions
Sorry about this Cesar. Maybe we need to start a Seatalk thread. Dad, you did not mention a course computer (CC), which AP do you have? The type 300 CC has 2 non-molded Seatalk 3-conductor (black, yellow and drain) connections to a compression terminal strip. I just connected one Seatalk cable to the CC still see power on the load side of the AP breaker like you did when it was OFF. I'm not a Seatalk expert so I won't be much help here but you said you removed the power lead and left the data wires (two?) and ground connected to the AP display. Seatalk only has 3 conductors which includes the ground (drain wire). Please clarify your connections. I would love to get this right and Raymarine tech support has not been too supportive about questions I've had on Seatalk connections when it comes to power, data and the course computer power input. Are you getting good comms between all Seatalk devices (Course, route info, AP status, Position data) when you say they still talk just fine. God, am I eating this up!
Sorry about this Cesar. Maybe we need to start a Seatalk thread. Dad, you did not mention a course computer (CC), which AP do you have? The type 300 CC has 2 non-molded Seatalk 3-conductor (black, yellow and drain) connections to a compression terminal strip. I just connected one Seatalk cable to the CC still see power on the load side of the AP breaker like you did when it was OFF. I'm not a Seatalk expert so I won't be much help here but you said you removed the power lead and left the data wires (two?) and ground connected to the AP display. Seatalk only has 3 conductors which includes the ground (drain wire). Please clarify your connections. I would love to get this right and Raymarine tech support has not been too supportive about questions I've had on Seatalk connections when it comes to power, data and the course computer power input. Are you getting good comms between all Seatalk devices (Course, route info, AP status, Position data) when you say they still talk just fine. God, am I eating this up!
SeaTalk
Mickey, I have a 4000 plus wheel so rather than the seperate computer unit I have it all in the control head, but I think that is irrelevant to the situation....I just have two SeaTalk connections at the control head instead. And yes, you are right that there are only three wires. So I kept the data and ground hooked up and isolated the power lead. There is one thing you need to work out, and that is that you do not have any additional SeaTalk units farther down the chain (beyond the autopilot or CC box) that requires the Sea talk Power. If you do, they will be powered out of the autopilot power and I believe would only be on when the autopilot breaker is on once you isolate the incoming SeaTalk power lead. In my instance I plugged the SeaTalk from the last instrument in the chain( speed, wind, depth) direct to the autopilot head (with power wire isolated at the autopilot head). My Sea Talk continuation from the autopilot was to the helm Chartplotter. This does not require power, just data, in fact, if I recall correctly, it does not accept power over the SeaTalk system. So part of the solution has to do with the place on the SeaTalk chain that your autopilot and other equipment sits. I drew out all of the circuits prior to installation, including detailed connections for each power & ground wire. Interestingly, I drew Sea Talk as a single daisy chained wire. Had I drawn it showing each wire, the circuit cross-over would have been more apparent to me at the design stage. So, what I think you need to do is isolate the Sea Talk power wire at the autopilot, but make sure there are no SeaTalk power requirements farther down the chain that you want to power off of the breaker (Instruments?) that puts the power in the SeaTalk system. Also, someone on here said it was necessary to power SeaTalk from two sources when more than a certain number of instruments are chained together. I do not think this is completely accurate. The Raytheon drawings show multiple connections in those situations, but from the SAME source. I think this is because there is voltage drop as the instruments are chained together and more are added. The SAME source should just connect at both ends of the chain. Unless you have a lot of instruments, I do not think this is an issue. I power the wind, speed, depth and GPS off of the SeaTalk bus power system. Chartplotter / radar at nav, and Charter plotter at helm have seperate power supply as does the autopilot. Hope this helps, if not, let me know. Dan Jonas
Mickey, I have a 4000 plus wheel so rather than the seperate computer unit I have it all in the control head, but I think that is irrelevant to the situation....I just have two SeaTalk connections at the control head instead. And yes, you are right that there are only three wires. So I kept the data and ground hooked up and isolated the power lead. There is one thing you need to work out, and that is that you do not have any additional SeaTalk units farther down the chain (beyond the autopilot or CC box) that requires the Sea talk Power. If you do, they will be powered out of the autopilot power and I believe would only be on when the autopilot breaker is on once you isolate the incoming SeaTalk power lead. In my instance I plugged the SeaTalk from the last instrument in the chain( speed, wind, depth) direct to the autopilot head (with power wire isolated at the autopilot head). My Sea Talk continuation from the autopilot was to the helm Chartplotter. This does not require power, just data, in fact, if I recall correctly, it does not accept power over the SeaTalk system. So part of the solution has to do with the place on the SeaTalk chain that your autopilot and other equipment sits. I drew out all of the circuits prior to installation, including detailed connections for each power & ground wire. Interestingly, I drew Sea Talk as a single daisy chained wire. Had I drawn it showing each wire, the circuit cross-over would have been more apparent to me at the design stage. So, what I think you need to do is isolate the Sea Talk power wire at the autopilot, but make sure there are no SeaTalk power requirements farther down the chain that you want to power off of the breaker (Instruments?) that puts the power in the SeaTalk system. Also, someone on here said it was necessary to power SeaTalk from two sources when more than a certain number of instruments are chained together. I do not think this is completely accurate. The Raytheon drawings show multiple connections in those situations, but from the SAME source. I think this is because there is voltage drop as the instruments are chained together and more are added. The SAME source should just connect at both ends of the chain. Unless you have a lot of instruments, I do not think this is an issue. I power the wind, speed, depth and GPS off of the SeaTalk bus power system. Chartplotter / radar at nav, and Charter plotter at helm have seperate power supply as does the autopilot. Hope this helps, if not, let me know. Dan Jonas
splicing hint
As per Rick's question: I had a seatalk cable shake apart while bashing to weather up the coast. Contacted Raytheon and they advised that I go back and tape over all the connectors with electrical tape to avoid a repeat of the problem. Apparently, the newer connectors have a more positive lock.......... By the way, if you get an ST6000 or ST7000 pilot, you HAVE to get the ST600R remote control. Lets you sit under the dodger during gales and still make course corrections while having complete access to all seatalk data. A great toy.
As per Rick's question: I had a seatalk cable shake apart while bashing to weather up the coast. Contacted Raytheon and they advised that I go back and tape over all the connectors with electrical tape to avoid a repeat of the problem. Apparently, the newer connectors have a more positive lock.......... By the way, if you get an ST6000 or ST7000 pilot, you HAVE to get the ST600R remote control. Lets you sit under the dodger during gales and still make course corrections while having complete access to all seatalk data. A great toy.
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